Nuker abilities should be limited by line of sight

[Rann0n]

The only problem I see with nuker abilities is that they allow you to hide in a corner and just spam 1-2 buttons while the enemies die almost right after they spawn. Such lazy gameplay should not be encouraged and it should not be more effective or even on par with the active one.

Introducing LoS for nuker abilities will put more thought in the gameplay, making players time their ability casts rather than just spam the buttons.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Rann0n

[Oksanya]

IRL Nukes don't give a crap about LoS, they just kill stuff regardless of where it is.  Why should Warframe be any different?

Do you not like it when a GAME lets you be powerful?  Wasn't that the WHOLE POINT of Warframe? 

To become a super-duper awesome powerful space ninja of death and destruction?!

 

I disagree, let the nukes be nukes.  It's why they're called NUKES, they're meant to kill EVERYTHING!

Edited August 28, 2018 by Oksanya

[Rann0n]

2 минуты назад, Oksanya сказал:

Do you not like it when a GAME lets you be powerful?  Wasn't that the WHOLE POINT of Warframe?

I like it when a GAME lets me be powerful. I don't like when the game lets me be LAZY. Is spamming 1-2 buttons while sitting in the corner the WHOLE POINT of Warframe? I doubt it. And as far as I'm aware, devs don't like this style either and are trying to dispose of it. Take recent melee tweak for example.

I don't want warframes to be less powerful. I want passive gameplay become much less rewarding than active gameplay.

 

[Newnobiez]

dont blame the game make u lazy..it yourself who wanna be lazy in the 1st place..if not just move around and kill with weapon too dont depend 100% kill on warframe ability only..then u said the game make u be.

[taiiat]

isn't this also achieved by Damage Abilities just not having Ranges that covers the entire map? because AoE Damage Abilities having a like, 60 Meter Range but being limited to Line of Sight sounds....well doesn't that scream 'inconsistent results in Gameplay' to you?

much easier for that Ability to have a 30 Meter Range instead, eh? if one was to do anything.

[NinjaZeku]

Sure, you can take away / power down ability murderization options.

BUT, then the whole game needs to be rebalanced, with way less, but individually stronger, enemies
... which kinda wouldn't be Warframe anymore, I'm afraid.

As it is, non-LOS damage abilities are a great help managing the flood of enemies we at times face.

Also, it's just fun / cathartic to let loose and see all those Affinity popups from pushing one button.
If you don't like that, there are plenty more realistic / limited shooters out there.
Or, find a Clan that shares your views, and run missions with them, using less OP builds and whatnot.

[kebra]

I strongly but respectfully disagree... There are enough Warframe for us to choose from and to let people enjoy "Nuke" frames if they so desire IMO or when you want to mindlessly farm/level. BTW, they often are glass canons who wouldn't survive a direct confrontation (Banshee, Ember...), that may explain why they try to keep a low profile when $hIt goes down, not every one plays like LifeOfRio and consorts... ^^

Edited August 20, 2018 by kebra

[kyori]

I think the real only problem you face is... other players kill more than you. I’d advise play solo if so, or recruit a group that doesn’t contain any op frames. 

[Rann0n]

53 минуты назад, Newnobiez сказал:

dont blame the game make u lazy..it yourself who wanna be lazy in the 1st place..if not just move around and kill with weapon too dont depend 100% kill on warframe ability only..then u said the game make u be.

Huh? If I wanted to be lazy, I wouldn't propose any changes and would be strongly against them. I haven't said the game makes me lazy. I've said it lets me. Different things.

52 минуты назад, taiiat сказал:

isn't this also achieved by Damage Abilities just not having Ranges that covers the entire map? because AoE Damage Abilities having a like, 60 Meter Range but being limited to Line of Sight sounds....well doesn't that scream 'inconsistent results in Gameplay' to you?

much easier for that Ability to have a 30 Meter Range instead, eh? if one was to do anything.

Serious ability range decrease could help, but what about range mods? Either the ability would be completely useless without them or there won't be a difference when you use them. Of course, there's also an option to tone down range mods but I think just introducing LoS is an easier change.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

Sure, you can take away / power down ability murderization options

 

I'm not against having powerful abilities, just against lazy and spammy gameplay.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

BUT, then the whole game needs to be rebalanced, with way less, but individually stronger, enemies

Not really. The game isn't balanced around nuker abilities in the first place. Enemies were not meant to die behind ten walls right after spawn.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

As it is, non-LOS damage abilities are a great help managing the flood of enemies we at times face.

Not sure why would you need to deal with the enemies behind ten walls other than to avoid actual battle.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

Also, it's just fun / cathartic to let loose and see all those Affinity popups from pushing one button.

At first maybe, but it quickly becomes boring and there's no incentive to play actively because this boring style is most effective.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

If you don't like that, there are plenty more realistic / limited shooters out there.

Great suggestion. With this logic in mind, DE should just close the feedback forum section and put "If you don't like anything, go play other games" in the title.

51 минуту назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

Or, find a Clan that shares your views, and run missions with them, using less OP builds and whatnot.

Avoiding game's problem doesn't remove the problem.

44 минуты назад, kebra сказал:

I strongly but respectfully disagree... There are enough Warframe for us to choose from and to let people enjoy "Nuke" frames if they so desire IMO or when you want to mindlessly farm/level.

Sure, I'm saying lazy and mindless gameplay should not be more effective than active gameplay where you put effort. With LoS change, nothing prevents players from spamming, it's just that only enemies that got close enough would be damaged and killed.

44 минуты назад, kebra сказал:

BTW, they often are glass canons who wouldn't survive a direct confrontation (Banshee, Ember...), that may explain why they try to keep a low profile when $hIt goes down, not every one plays like LifeOfRio and consorts... ^^

That's what we have mobility system for. Being squishy isn't an excuse for taking away risk and challenge which are IMO an essential part of any game where a player has opponents.

37 минут назад, kyori сказал:

I think the real only problem you face is... other players kill more than you. I’d advise play solo if so, or recruit a group that doesn’t contain any op frames. 

And how would it stop me from utilizing lazy and mindless gameplay?

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

isn't this also achieved by Damage Abilities just not having Ranges that covers the entire map? because AoE Damage Abilities having a like, 60 Meter Range but being limited to Line of Sight sounds....well doesn't that scream 'inconsistent results in Gameplay' to you?

much easier for that Ability to have a 30 Meter Range instead, eh? if one was to do anything.

And this is why I really dislike corrupted mods, they're probably the main culprit for this even being a problem in the first place.

Blind Rage is the only fair corrupted mod imo, since efficiency is important to every ability.

Edited August 20, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Newnobiez]

30 minutes ago, Rann0n said:

Huh? If I wanted to be lazy, I wouldn't propose any changes and would be strongly against them. I haven't said the game makes me lazy. I've said it lets me. Different things.

just bcuz they let too doest mean we need to play lazy style? like im said its depend on how u play and dont blame bcuz nuke not LoS is to op..think about everything has its pros and cons.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez

[Rann0n]

5 минут назад, Newnobiez сказал:

just bcuz they let too doest mean we need to play lazy style? like im said its depend on how u play and dont blame bcuz nuke not LoS is to op..think about everything has its pros and cons.

If you were given a choice: receive 1 million dollars for free or do a job and get 1 million dollars for it, what would you choose? Is this even a choice?

Now if you were given a choice to do nothing and get 1000 dollars or do a job and get 1 million dollars, it would depend on whether you want to do a job or not. Do nothing for lesser reward. Work towards the bigger reward.

The only con about spamming nuker abilities in the corner is that this playstyle is extremely boring. And it kills the incentive to play actively. But with LoS limitation things will be much better.

[Newnobiez]

u are saying nuker spam is boring? ez dnt play nuke and make custom pt for non nuker squad..the thing is nuker is btr than ppl using any wf yet they enter mission just for afk leeching and looting wo killing any enemies wo buffing wo helping downed squad? its btr play less actve yet they do they job as dps compare to some uselessball who afk the whole time on the mission..the whole point is depend on how u play..

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez

[Rann0n]

4 минуты назад, Newnobiez сказал:

u are saying nuker spam is boring? ez dnt play nuke and make custom pt for non nuker squad..

Have you even read my previous comment? There is NO gameplay incentive to choose active playstyle over mindless AoE spamming because mindless AoE spamming is more effective and takes no effort. Knowing that the cheesy playstyle exists and is more effective, how do I get rid of the feeling the effort I put is for nothing?

7 минут назад, Newnobiez сказал:

the thing is nuker is btr than ppl using any wf yet they enter mission just for afk leeching and looting wo killing any enemies wo buffing wo helping downed squad? its btr play less actve yet they do they job as dps compare to some uselessball who afk the whole time on the mission.

The problem I'm talking about is also a part of the leeching problem. People get used to the content being trivialized by others and they start expecting every mission to be played for them by others.

[Newnobiez]

18 minutes ago, Rann0n said:

Have you even read my previous comment? There is NO gameplay incentive to choose active playstyle over mindless AoE spamming because mindless AoE spamming is more effective and takes no effort. Knowing that the cheesy playstyle exists and is more effective, how do I get rid of the feeling the effort I put is for nothing?

The problem I'm talking about is also a part of the leeching problem. People get used to the content being trivialized by others and they start expecting every mission to be played for them by others.

ofc i read ur previous comment so that how i can reply next..the thing is u keep ignoring what im saying..like im said ealier just make custom pt wo any nuker..that fix the problem for u who hate nuker playstle..play as nuker doesnt meant no effort playstyle..nuker need energy u know do u think energy magicaly replenish it self?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez
typo

[SnazzyZ]

31 minutes ago, Newnobiez said:

ofc i read ur previous comment so that how i can reply next..the thing is u keep ignoring what im saying..like im said ealier just make custom pt wo any nuker..that fix the problem for u who hate nuker playstle..play as nuker doesnt meant no effort playstyle..nuker need energy u know do u think energy magicaly replenish it self?

In many cases yes energy is incredibly easy to replenish. Energy siphon, zenurik school, and energy pizzas make energy cost a mute point. There is no real negative to nuke frames as while yes they’re usually glass cannons, that only matters if enemies exist to actually kill them. Ignoring a problem does not solve a problem or make it go away, massive range nukes put the game on autoplay and people who dislike it should not be told to simply play a different game since those who do that kind of stuff clearly aren’t actually playing themselves. 

[Newnobiez]

8 minutes ago, PolarFall said:

In many cases yes energy is incredibly easy to replenish. Energy siphon, zenurik school, and energy pizzas make energy cost a mute point. There is no real negative to nuke frames as while yes they’re usually glass cannons, that only matters if enemies exist to actually kill them. Ignoring a problem does not solve a problem or make it go away, massive range nukes put the game on autoplay and people who dislike it should not be told to simply play a different game since those who do that kind of stuff clearly aren’t actually playing themselves. 

arent those consider effort to? farming resource for pizza, void dash, running around loot energy.. and i not told him to play other game..i just said make a custom squad and plan what he like within his squadmate..is it wrong to say that?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez
typo

[Rann0n]

44 минуты назад, Newnobiez сказал:

the thing is u keep ignoring what im saying..like im said ealier just make custom pt wo any nuker..that fix the problem for u who hate nuker playstle..play as nuker doesnt me no effort playstyle..

I did answer, more than once, you just don't consider it the answer for some reason, so I'll try to put it differently. I don't hate nuker playstyle, I hate that it's more effective and rewarding than an active playstyle. Playing solo or with custom squads doesn't fix the problem of efortless playstyle being most effective.

48 минут назад, Newnobiez сказал:

nuker need energy u know do u think energy magicaly replenish it self?

Energy management is a joke. Stockpiles of cheap large energy restores, Zenurik, Trinity in a squad. All this allows you to get tons of energy almost instantly.

[SnazzyZ]

The build cost of pizza’s are dirt cheap so no it’s not farming for them, you likely have enough resources to make thousands of them, and energy siphon just gives you energy for existing. Making a custom squad is not an answer to that problem, it’s ignoring the problem. I’m fine with nuke abilities existing but the way they are now is not healthy, they are too spammable, have little to no drawbacks for being so powerful, and are too spammable, a reduced range so you’re not nuking the entire next room over and a hard cooldown timer to prevent spamming would actually encourage you to not just sit in the corner. 

[Newnobiez]

why nuker sitting in the corner u said its unhealty while they still do the dps job..dont u see alot of ppl nowdays no matter what frame they use they sit in the corner and just looking around and afk?and if u think that is a real way to play idk man..i think im in the wrong side of the world in this game.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez

[SnazzyZ]

3 minutes ago, Newnobiez said:

why nuker sitting in the corner u said its unhealty while they still do the dps job..dont u see alot of ppl nowdays no matter what frame they use they sit in the corner and just looking around and afk?and if u think that is a real way to play idk man..i think im in the wrong side of the world in this game.

I just said that kind of play style is bad, nuke frames sit in the corner afk because they are very easily allowed to do so, and the rest of the team is able to afk because the nuke frame is doing the mission for them by doing nothing. That is BAD not good. Please try and understand what people are saying a bit better. 

[Newnobiez]

2 minutes ago, PolarFall said:

I just said that kind of play style is bad, nuke frames sit in the corner afk because they are very easily allowed to do so, and the rest of the team is able to afk because the nuke frame is doing the mission for them by doing nothing. That is BAD not good. Please try and understand what people are saying a bit better. 

i understand that situation if got nuker teamate might afk..the things is even no nuker in squad at all..still alot of ppl sit in a corner and afk that the problem i see everyday..im rly active in this game i on9 everydays i play alot i hv 1k hour + alr..bcuz to much ppl thing every mission some1 will carried them

Edited August 20, 2018 by Newnobiez

[Rann0n]

4 минуты назад, Newnobiez сказал:

why nuker sitting in the corner u said its unhealty while they still do the dps job..dont u see alot of ppl nowdays no matter what frame they use they sit in the corner and just looking around and afk?and if u think that is a real way to play idk man..i think im in the wrong side of the world in this game.

This topic is about the effectiveness of one particular effortless playstyle. Stop trying to derail it to discussing the leecher problem, it has nothing to do with the topic (other than this plastyle is one of the reasons for leeching).

[Newnobiez]

2 minutes ago, Rann0n said:

This topic is about the effectiveness of one particular effortless playstyle. Stop trying to derail it to discussing the leecher problem, it has nothing to do with the topic (other than this plastyle is one of the reasons for leeching).

im not running from the topic what i want to say is bcuz got to many ppl like that force some player chose nuker frame to clear the mission efficiently

[Cibyllae]

22 minutes ago, Rann0n said:

Energy management is a joke. Stockpiles of cheap large energy restores, Zenurik,  All this allows you to get tons of energy almost instantly.

This is more the problem than nuker frames

 

EDIT:

Let me emphasize my point

Quote

Energy management is a joke.

One more time for the people in the back~

Quote

Energy management,

Quote

is.

Quote

a.

Quote

joke.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Cibyllae