[Rhino Changes Feedback [U18 Megathread]]

I would like to reiterate to bring this to everyone's attention:

 

While enemies affected by Rhino Stomp receive double damage from Rhino Charge, damaged enemies are effectively knocked out of stasis for the remainder of the duration. Enemies in stasis can only receive double damage from Rhino Charge once per cast of Rhino Stomp.

 

Here's a demonstration. The antimoa quickly recovers despite Rhino Stomp's timer still being in effect.

 

 

I like the ability synergy these Warframe reworks are incorporating. However, Rhino Charge (which is not an ability centered around damage in its current iteration in my opinion) dealing double damage once to enemies in stasis while ending that stasis is impractical. I would much rather keep enemies CCed knowing the damage I deal with Rhino Charge, regardless if it's multiplied by a factor of two, will not be sufficient in killing.

 

If Rhino Charge is intended to knock enemies out of Rhino Stomp, the damage it deals should be high enough to warrant ending the stasis prematurely. There was mention of allowing Rhino Charge to be affected by melee mods in a previous devstream, but considering the ability's current state, I can see Scott was talked down. I don't believe allowing Rhino Charge to be affected by melee mods would be game-breaking or unfitting, especially if it's done in moderation.

 

Warframe abilities that factor melee mods are not all affected the same way. Rhino Charge does not need to be the next Exalted Blade, Hysteria, or Primal Fury; rather, it could be allowed to function similar to abilities like Slash Dash or Iron Jab where only base damage, elemental damage, and physical damage mods affect it. Rhino Charge's base damage per rank could be reduced as a compromise, especially if the damage is affected by the melee combo counter while adding to the counter per hit.

 

 

At least from my perspective, the Rhino Stomp + Charge combo is not worth using given that CC has to be sacrificed to deal double damage with an ability that inflicts relatively low damage. If knocking enemies out of stasis with Rhino Charge is beyond design intent, that issue should be addressed in the future.

[Frost's Globe Stack Not Combining Previous One's Health Anymore?]

Just to follow up on Momaw's tests, here are some results from my own testing:

 

 

• Snow Globe's health abides by the following expression: (Base Health + 5 × Frost's Base Armor × Base Armor Bonus) × (1 + Power Strength) + Absorbed Damage.

In this first test, I'm verifying whether the health formula as displayed in the abilities UI is accurate. With +100% base armor and +30% power strength, Snow Globe will have health equal to ( 5000 + 5 x 300 x 1 ) x 1.3 = 8450 at rank 3. I'm using a level-61 antimoa to damage a single globe. I made sure to test this after the globe's damage absorption from invulnerability had ended, so there should be no extra health to be concerned with.

 

A level-61 antimoa's projectiles deal 477 electricity damage. So with just 8450 health, a single hit should reduce the globe's health to 1 - 477 / 8450 = 94% rounded down.

 

Here's what the sequence would look like after ten hits: 94% 88% 83% 77% 71% 66% 60% 54% 49% 43%. Here's what I see in-game. As you can see, expected values and observations match here.

 

Now if Snow Globe's health were ( 5000 + 5 x 300 x 2 ) x 1.3 = 10400, the sequence would be 95% 90% 86% 81% 77% 72% 67% 63% 58% 54%. This sequence no longer matches observations. The expression I added to the wiki was fine in its original form.

 

 

• Casting Snow Globe inside a preexisting globe combines their health into a single globe.

With the same configuration of mods as before, I combined 5 Snow Globes. Using a level-61 antimoa, here's what the expected health percentages would be after ten hits: 98% 97% 96% 95% 94% 93% 92% 90% 89% 88%. Here's what I observe. Near the end of the gif, the projectiles exploded near the globe with each blast causing a separate but equal instance of damage. Observations match once again.

 

With 10 Snow Globes combined, here are the expected health percentages once again: 99% 98% 98% 97% 97% 96% 96% 95% 94% 94%. Here's what I observe. It's another match.

 

Finally to switch things up, I went with -60% power strength to reduce the health of a single Snow Globe to 2600. I used a level-95 antimoa whose projectiles deal 907 electricity damage. With 250 Snow Globes combined, here are the expected health percentages: 99% 99% 99% 99% 99% 99% 99% 98% 98% 98%. Here's what I observe. Another match.

 

I assume there's no limit to the number of times Snow Globe's health can stack with repeated casts inside preexisting globes. If there is, it would have to be greater than or equal to 250.

 

 

In conclusion, nothing appears to have changed regarding Snow Globe's health mechanics.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

Also, can someone fill me in on the Orthos Prime thing... I saw a GIF that someone made in this thread and they were hitting something that was 10m+ away... Just looked so weird.

 

Orthos Prime's default hitbox is significantly longer than that of Primal Fury. Orthos Prime with Primed Reach is able to hit enemies farther than Primal Fury with Primed Reach and the maximum melee range bonus. The gif looks odd because melee range mods aren't affecting the dimensions of Orthos Prime's physical model but are affecting the dimensions of the invisible hitbox.

[Frost Snowglobe Bug/mechanics?]

F6 is the default key for screenshots.

 

Are you looking at your abilities as a client in missions, or are you hosting? I could calculate your expected Snow Globe health, but I need to know what rank your mods are. Snow Globe's health should also be displaying accurately while in your orbiter, so see if you can get a screenshot there.

 

People have reported issues with Iron Skin displaying lowered health values, so this may be related.

[Frost's Globe Stack Not Combining Previous One's Health Anymore?]

Snow Globe health definitely used to stack when casting inside a preexisting globe. I also see someone on the wiki has replaced the health formula for the second time now using a formula that does not match observations or the abilities UI.

 

I'll test everything thoroughly later and share the results, and I'll undo any wiki edits if necessary.

[Iron Jab(Wukong) Small Qol Change]

Iron jab damage was affected damage wise by the combo counter before, now it contributes to it as well.

 

I can't say I've observed Iron Jab being affected by the combo counter multiplier before, and it still isn't now. The only change I'm observing is that each instance of damage adds to the combo counter.

 

In its current iteration, Iron Jab is a purely single-target ability in regard to damage and crowd control. The "ability radius" described in the abilities UI, as well as demonstrated in Wukong's profile video, is non-functional—only one enemy is CCed and that's the enemy that's damaged.

 

 

On top of the OP's suggestions, I would also suggest to allow Iron Jab's damage to be affected by the combo counter multiplier as well as fixing the ability radius.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

Ahh, thank you. So technically range mods are not affecting primal fury, but the melee bonus. That is why many had a disparity with results. The default length was bad and not being changed with range mods. 

 

No problem. Glad I could help clear that up.

 

 

The melee bonus only increases Size visually, nothing more

 

You are absolutely sure of this? Players have been saying that here, but as I and others have demonstrated, the effects of the melee range bonus from the combo counter are not purely visual—the hitbox does extend.

 

No melee range bonus (+0%)

 

Maximum melee range bonus (+200%)

 

Maximum melee range bonus + Primed Reach (+365%)

 

 

Are you testing as a host or client?

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

Tested it and it does hit farther.

 

Nice, thanks for confirming that.

 

 

With the testing that I've done so far and the confirmation I've received from some of you, I cannot say that I'm observing power range or melee range mods working improperly with Primal Fury (at least based on my understanding of Primal Fury's mechanics). I can say this with confidence in regard to solo-testing in the Simulacrum. On client there may be issues, although I would not be able to confirm that at this time.

 

 

To reiterate what I've observed:

 

• Power range mods affect the amount of range Primal Fury gains with each hit on the melee combo counter. Power range does not affect the staff's default size or the maximum melee range bonus from the counter.

   

• Melee range mods affect Primal Fury's default size. If power range mods affect the staff's rate of growth on successive hits, melee range mods affect the starting point of that growth.

   

• The growth of the staff is tied directly to the melee combo counter, and a maximum of +200% bonus melee range can be gained from it. This bonus adds onto the range bonuses provided by melee range mods.

 

As an example, if I have a maxed Primed Reach equipped, Primal Fury will have an initial melee range bonus of +165%. If Primal Fury is at rank 3, each hit will add +20% range until a maximum melee range bonus of 165% + 200% = +365% is reached. If the combo counter resets, the melee range bonus will be reduced to its initial value at +165%. If I have no power range mods equipped, it will take a minimum of 10 hits to gain the maximum melee range bonus again. If I equip a maxed Stretch, a minimum of 7 hits would be required.

 

 

As for feedback on Primal Fury now that we know the mechanics in those gifs are beyond design intentions, having a limit on the melee range bonus isn't a problem in my opinion as the maximum amount of bonus melee range is fairly large (especially in combination with melee range mods like Primed Reach). However, the default length of Primal Fury's hitbox is nothing spectacular. Even with +365% melee range, Primal Fury does not hit as far as certain weapons that utilize only +165% melee range from Primed Reach.

 

If Primal Fury is to be tweaked, increasing the default length of the staff's hitbox (and physical model to ensure the staff is not hitting air when its hitbox collides with enemies) by a reasonable amount could be a priority.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

Are you sure your staff is not just visibly getting bigger? Because my staff extends regardless of whether I have range mods on or not. I also was getting the same results with or without range mods. What do range mods do I don't know. Is it capped to a smaller limit? I don't know. Is the staff supposed to stay at the extended length I don't know. 

 

It's not purely aesthetic from what I'm observing. The hitbox is increasing in length along with the visuals. I cannot hit an ancient 4-5 meters away (let alone 3 meters) with no hits on the combo counter and no Reach or Primed Reach equipped despite what was claimed earlier in this thread, and I can hit the ancient at that distance when the melee range bonus from the combo counter is maximized with no Reach or Primed Reach equipped.

 

I've also seen claims that when channeling, the particle effects are not trailing from either end of the staff, indicating the hitbox is not extending when the combo counter is built up. I do not agree with this claim either. Here's the staff at +0% range and +200% range.

 

The staff grows regardless of whether your power range is modified. Growth is tied to the melee combo counter, so if you don't have any hits on the counter the staff will be at its default size. If the combo counter resets, the staff will shrink to its default size. Reach and Primed Reach affect the default size. The staff grows in increments that depend on rank. All power range does is affect the size of those increments (e.g., with greater power range it will take fewer hits to reach the maximum melee range bonus). The melee range bonus from the combo counter adds to the range bonus provided by Reach and Primed Reach.

 

 

Wow, thank you for your testing. All the data and results were very enlightening to hear. I suppose I should've went more into testing instead of just assuming that it was broken (I saw a lot of posts about "broken" range as Wukong and I also felt that the staff was only visually getting larger and the hitbox hardly increased).

 

No problem and thanks. We're not completely out of the woods though. As it's impossible for me to test Primed Reach at this time, I encourage more people to reevaluate the attack range using that mod while maximizing the melee range bonus from the combo counter. At +365% range, you should be able to hit an ancient farther than I've demonstrated above.

 

I would also encourage everyone who has claimed power range doesn't work or that the hitbox doesn't extend regardless of the combo counter to replicate my experiments. If you can smack an ancient across the face 5 meters away with no hits on the combo counter and no melee range mods equipped, then something's not right.

 

I would figure most people who have tested here are using the Simulacrum, but for those who are not, it's possible this could be a host vs. client-related issue.

 

 

This is what I have been experiencing on PS4.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I would really like to know if more people are able to observe what I'm seeing. Necior was the first to report a maximum +200% melee range bonus from the combo counter.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

I finished testing Primal Fury for now, and I thought I'd share my results here:

 

 

• Power range mods do affect Primal Fury.

Primal Fury's range extends with each instance of damage which is tied to the melee combo counter. If the counter resets, so does Primal Fury's range. Power range mods affect the amount of range that's gained with each strike according to the melee range bonus indicated in the abilities menu.

 

At rank 0 and 100% power range, Primal Fury has a 2% melee range bonus. With no melee range mods equipped on my weapon, here's what the staff looks like when I hit an enemy 0, 10, and 20 times. At 235% power range the melee range bonus becomes 4.7%, and you can see that when I hit an enemy 0, 10, and 20 times, the staff lengthens in larger increments.

 

This is not just a visual modification. As demonstrated here, I can damage an enemy up to 5 meters away after building up the counter. No melee range mods are equipped on my weapon in that example.

 

 

• Melee range bonus is capped at +200%.

Take a look at the following sequence of images. In these examples, I'm using the same loadout as before where the melee range bonus is 2% at 100% power range and melee range mods are not equipped. Here's the staff after 0, 10, 20, 30, 50, 75, 90, 100, and 125 hits. Notice how the staff stops extending after 100 hits, indicating there is a +200% range limit.

 

If I repeat the experiment at 235% power range, here's the staff after 0, 10, 20, 43, and 100 hits. The staff's length did not change after 43 hits. Since the melee range bonus is 4.7% in this experiment, it would require 43 hits to reach the +200% melee range limit.

 

• Melee range mods increase Primal Fury's initial range.

I don't have Primed Reach, so this is what the staff looks like with +60% range from Reach compared to the default size at +0% range.

 

 

• Melee range bonus and melee range mods stack additively, and Primal Fury's hitbox and visuals extend as expected.

This is what the staff looks like with a 2% melee range bonus and 30 hits (+60% range). Compared to the staff in the previous example with Reach equipped and 0 hits (+60% range), you'll notice both staffs are essentially the same length. If I perform 100 hits with a 2% melee range bonus (+200% range) and compare it to a staff with Reach equipped with only 70 hits (60% + 140% = +200% range), you'll also notice the staffs are the same length (don't focus on the left side of the staff as it's clipping into the ground).

 

With Reach and only 100% power range, here's what the staff looks like after 0, 20, 25, 50, 70, 75, and 100 hits. At 100 hits, the staff has extended to a length that no longer fits onscreen. When I test the attack range (+260%), I am noticing a slight increase compared to the attack range (+200%) observed in the experiment where I had the maximum melee range bonus with no Reach equipped.

 

However as range is a difficult quantity to measure accurately in this game, and with no Primed Reach to produce a higher attack range, I cannot say I'm completely confident with this observation.

 

For those of you that have Primed Reach, are you able to notice a difference between the attack range of Primal Fury with and without Primed Reach equipped when the maximum melee range bonus is acquired? In that experiment, Primal Fury would have +365% range. Try to replicate the experiment as closely as possible. You should be able to hit an ancient face-on at a distance farther than 5-6 meters with that melee range by tapping E once. If not, then this might be an actual issue.

 

 

Regardless of what's observed, however, the reason why we are not seeing Primal Fury extending to lengths witnessed in the OP's gifs is that the melee range bonus from successive hits is hard capped at +200%. This limit may not have existed when that footage was recorded, and it's entirely possible the mechanics demonstrated in those gifs are outdated considering they do not match those demonstrated in both Wukong profile videos. The enormous range is one thing, but I also find it odd that in the beginning of the first gif the staff is already greatly extended (far beyond +165% range from Primed Reach) without a single hit on the combo counter.

 

We won't know for sure until it's addressed.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

So from what I believe I understand, PF is supposed to increase its range according to the melee multiplier. Each hit should increase the range with hits idk if there's a cap or not because it hasn't worked yet to test if it does. But as of his release it hasnt done that. Reach mods I believe are supposed to just be there to help start the range higher than 0%. I also believe it's supposed to go higher than 165%(P Reach) but it also doesnt do that either.

 

Also right now ranged mods are all visual right now. It doesnt increase the range which was proven when any melee has a further reach than PF

 

I appreciate the explanation, and that more or less agrees with my assumption, but I was actually curious about an official response (unless of course that is what you and Rebecca have discussed).

 

We have been told that our explanation of the issue does not add up according to what DE is observing under the hood. Knowing exactly how Primal Fury is supposed to interact with power range and melee range mods would be beneficial for all of us in reaching a consensus.

[Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working]

This has been on our radar for a while, and investigations have taken place. Unfortunately I'm going to need to ask for a 'Wukong expert' to volunteer some time with me to really get to the objective root of the problem that's being reported, because it's not adding up to what we are seeing under the hood. Reply to this if you're interested.

 

I just acquired Wukong, but I won't be able to do any extensive testing until the weekend. However, it looks like you have plenty of volunteers.

 

For those of us who want to test Primal Fury, I would like to ask what exactly is intended regarding its interaction with power range and melee range mods. Knowing Primal Fury's intended behavior will help us identify the issue as we'll know what's expected. Thanks.

[Found Problem With Renewal]

When I added that information in Renewal's wiki article, that's what I was observing at the time (with frame-by-frame analysis and time measurements). Lately the orbs do not seem to be slowing the bleed out timer after making contact with downed allies, so I'm glad multiple people are observing the same issue.

 

If necessary I'll confirm it with actual measurements later this week.

[Found Problem With Renewal]

I've also been noticing this for a couple of months now, but I haven't had the time to provide concrete evidence. I'll look into it again over the holiday break.

[Planets Misaligned Or Missing!]

Some planets are missing their opaque "surface" textures.

 

In Saturn's case, it appears to be missing its opaque lower layer of clouds (currently its rings are visible through the planetary disk). Earth only has its atmosphere and cloud layers with no surface.

[Chroma's Vex Armor: Scorn Bonus Now Additive, Not Multiplicative.]

Well then, I was mistaken with my assumption. Good call. Based on the 17.11.0 patch notes, Scorn's intended range was 100% to 350%. I'll test in-game tonight to make sure everything is working according to these changes.

 

EDIT:

 

Testing against a level-30 charger with the same build as before (130% power strength, 700 armor), Scorn has a maximum percentage of 3.5 x 1.3 = 455%.

 

No Vex Armor - 42 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 / ( 700 + 300 ) ) = ~42 health lost.

 

126% Scorn - 36 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 x 1.26 / ( 700 x 1.26 + 300 ) ) = ~36 health lost.

 

455% Scorn (max) - 12 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 x 4.55 / ( 700 x 4.55 + 300 ) ) = ~12 health lost.

 

 

Everything looks fine. Scorn has a range between 100% to its maximum percentage. The shield-to-Scorn conversion percentages have been modified to ensure that 400 shields are required to maximize Scorn.

[Multiple Issues With Chroma's Elemental Ward (Cold)]

Thought I'd give this an update instead of creating a new topic with a similar subject. Most of the day-one Elemental Ward (cold) issues/bugs described here are still present:

 

 

- The damage multiplier is non-functional. 

 

For as long as Chroma has been available, I have not been able to discover what that damage multiplier is supposed to be affecting. We can see this damage multiplier labeled in the abilities UI. It has no effect on Chroma's cold damage from abilities or weapons, and it has no effect on reflected damage (even when cold procs are triggered).

 

If the damage multiplier is supposed to be affecting reflected damage, that's not observed. Here is a level-1 anti-MOA whose projectiles deal 50 electricity damage on impact. You can see that when redirected towards the anti-MOA, the reflected damage is unchanged.

 

 

- For non-hitscan projectiles, the enemy's damage at level-1 is always reflected regardless of the enemy's current level.

 

These are all level-50 anti-MOAs whose projectiles deal roughly 361 electricity damage on impact. As seen in the image, only level-1 damage is reflected.

 

 

- For multishot weapons, only a single pellet can be reflected.

 

This is a level-50 arid trooper that is being affected by a single instance of reflected damage despite dealing multiple instances of damage to me in one shot.

 

 

- Vex Armor's Fury affects the reflected damage of non-hitscan projectiles.

 

Referring back to the level-1 anti-MOA, you can see here that I have 161% Fury active. Instead of being dealt 50 damage, the anti-MOA is receiving 50 x 1.61 = ~81 electricity damage.

 

 

Everything else appears to have been resolved.

[Molt's Hitpoints Affect Miasma's Damage (Math And Feedback)]

The former is more appropriate for molt.

 

Molt is meant to be destroyed vs Snowglobe and Tectonics which are meant to withstand assault a brief period of invincibility will allow saryn guaranteed escape and safety.

 

I definitely agree that the former is more appropriate.

 

However if Molt is meant to be destroyed, why does such a combo exist that depends on Molt's hitpoints? That's more of a question aimed at the developers and not you in particular. If Molt is meant to be frail, using the Molt + Miasma combo efficiently is going to be extremely difficult on high-level settings where that extra damage would be useful.

 

 

This won't be very helpful in high level games with how little hp and shield molt has unless you spawn it and right away use it.

 

This is a valid point. At higher difficulties, Molt dies within a second of casting. Giving Molt scaling durability using the Snow Globe / Tectonics mechanic would give the player a better opportunity to optimize Molt's damage multiplier as Molt's HP will fall gradually and not immediately.

 

The downside is that with too much durability, Molt will not be able to spread toxin (or viral procs with Spores) as quickly. So I do believe there should be a compromise. Molt should definitely not have the same kind of durability as Snow Globe or Tectonics--just enough durability to distract enemies for several seconds regardless of difficulty and give the player enough time to react to Molt's HP loss to utilize the Molt + Miasma combo.

 

 

This mechanic is wonky in general; i'm not sure where it fits, really.

 

I'm not sure either, but I do think it can see some use if all of these issues are resolved including the power strength vs. damage multiplier oddity on the first post.

[Chroma's Vex Armor: Scorn Bonus Now Additive, Not Multiplicative.]

Just did a quick test in-game: level-30 charger, roughly 188 impact damage per hit, 700 armor on Chroma, and 130% power strength (max Scorn = +350% x 1.3 = +455%).

 

No Vex Armor - 42 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 / ( 700 + 300 ) ) = ~42 health lost.

 

120% Scorn - 36 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 x 1.2 / ( 700 x 1.2 + 300 ) ) = ~37 health lost.

 

555% Scorn (max) - 10 health lost per hit

188 x 0.75 x ( 1 - 700 x 5.55 / ( 700 x 5.55 + 300 ) ) = ~10 health lost.

 

 

Everything looks fine to me.

 

I assume the reason why Scorn had always been a pure multiplier is simply because Scorn was implemented incorrectly. If Fury were accidentally implemented in a similar way upon Chroma's release, then you'd have people commenting on how Fury can reduce Chroma's weapon damage when below 100%. It was never the intention to make Scorn reduce Chroma's armor. Now Scorn and Fury provide additional bonuses to total armor and total weapon damage respectively.

 

What you're implying with Scorn remaining a multiplier with a range between 100% and 350% would also require a reevaluation of the shield-to-Scorn conversion rate if the amount of shields needed to produce maximum Scorn values is to remain the same. By making Scorn an additional bonus for total armor similar to how Fury is an additional bonus for weapon damage, there is no need to change conversion rates.

[Chroma's Vex Armor: Scorn Bonus Now Additive, Not Multiplicative.]

The way Scorn worked prior to the update is similar to a hypothetical situation where Fury, instead of increasing total weapon damage by an additional 175% (which would imply a multiplicative factor of 2.75), only multiplies weapon damage by a factor of 1.75 and has values that range from 0% to 175% in the HUD (instead of 100% to 275% as it is currently).

 

Now Scorn works like Fury does, where Chroma's total armor is increased by an additional 350% (implying a multiplicative factor of 4.5) and has values that range from 100% to 450% in the HUD.

 

 

I'll need to test this in-game to make sure this is what's happening with Chroma's armor.

[Molt's Hitpoints Affect Miasma's Damage (Math And Feedback)]

thanks a lot for testing this tenno.

 

You're welcome.

 

 

IMO Molt should be durable enough to survive a few seconds (3-5) of concentrated fire from level 50ish enemies, and longer if you stack power strength.  Maybe give it a second or two of invincibility so that it doesn't die instantly later on, but that's all it needs.  It's already very effective for getting away from danger, which is the entire point of the ability.  

 

Are you suggesting pure invulnerability for 1-2 seconds, or are you thinking in terms of Snow Globe / Tectonics with damage converted into health during that invulnerability phase?

[Saryn Molt Explosion Radius Not Affected By Range Mods]

Just stopping by to say I've been noticing this as well.

[Molt's Hitpoints Affect Miasma's Damage (Math And Feedback)]

My concern right now is to make sure everything is working under the hood as intended. However, we can discuss the practicality of this combo until there's clarification.

 

As it is right now, Molt has nothing to bolster its defenses other than power strength to increase its health. If you make Molt too damage-resistant, it will take even longer to use Molt to spread viral procs (when used with Spores) and toxin procs for combo set ups (unless it's detonated manually, expending more energy). On the other hand, if its health falls at a more controlled level on higher difficulties (instead of being completely destroyed in one instance of damage) the combo presented here in this topic could have more successful usage.

 

Then you can argue, "Well, who cares about using Molt to spread viral and toxin? I have Spores + Toxic Lash for that (or Spores + high status toxin damage weapon)" which would be a valid point.

 

What Spores + Molt can do, Spores + Toxic Lash can also achieve. Even though Spores costs half the energy when used on Molt, spored enemies will restore 2 energy when killed with Toxic Lash. With Molt's base duration doubled in the latest hotfix, it seems that's the route DE is trying to take this ability: to increase Molt's effectiveness as a decoy (at least on lower difficulty). The doubled duration will do nothing for its durability, however.

 

 

So what say you all? Do you prefer Molt to be a more damage-resistant decoy that can last longer on higher difficulties and possibility utilize the combo described here to greater efficiency? If so, in what ways can Molt's resilience be improved to achieve this?

[[Saryn] Okay We Got Spore Spreading On Death.. But Its Still Not Enough..]

yes my acrid does 1200 damge... so a normal toxin proc is 600.. so a tick on other enemys should do 300.

I am well aware of how it works.. but it doesnt, as I said..

 

Initial base damage, not initial total damage.

 

Your Acrid only has 35 base damage which can be increased by Hornet Strike and Magnum Force.

[Molt's Hitpoints Affect Miasma's Damage (Math And Feedback)]

If anyone is curious about how Molt interacts with Miasma, from observation Miasma's damage is multiplied by a value that depends on how many hitpoints (shields + health) Molt has lost at the time of detonation. That is to say, you cast Molt, and it receives damage from surrounding enemies. If you cast Miasma next to Molt, Molt will explode prior to Miasma's first instance of damage, and the percentage of lost hitpoints at the time it explodes is converted into a damage multiplier that depends on power strength.

 

Here are some observations.

 

130% Power Strength

 

With just a maxed Intensify equipped, I have observed Miasma's damage per second (after status effect damage bonuses, power strength, and damage modifiers have been considered) being multiplied by quantities in the second column when Molt has lost a percentage of its total hitpoints as indicated in the first column. I took screenshots and measured the percentage of lost hitpoints using GIMP.

 

If I determine a best fit for this data, the relationship between the damage multiplier and lost hitpoints is linear (y = mx + b):

 

Damage Multiplier = 0.5 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1.

 

So for this amount of power strength, I will always have a damage multiplier from Molt less than 1.5. I wanted to see how power strength affects this multiplier, so here are some other observations with different setups:

 

40% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.93 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

100% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.56 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

185% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.53 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

212% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.9 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

284% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.84 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

As you can see, the relationship between the percentage of lost hitpoints and the damage multiplier is always linear. However, notice how 40% power strength has a higher upper limit on the damage multiplier than everything else. The relationship between power strength and the slope (m) from the damage multiplier expression is nonlinear.

 

 

X-axis is power strength (%) and y-axis is the slope. This is only a best fit and is most likely not the actual function being used. While the actual function may not be a 5th-degree polynomial, it does still appear to be nonlinear and does not appear to be one-to-one--different values of power strength can yield the same slope.

 

 

So what am I trying to say with all of this information? Basically, I'm curious if this specific relationship between power strength and the damage multiplier was intended. If it was, it's counterintuitve in my opinion. 40% power strength should not be yielding the highest damage multipliers while arguably the amount of power strength that most players use (between 100% and 200%) yield lower values. While the difference isn't game-breaking by any means, I don't see why players who don't use extreme amounts of power strength (positive and negative) should be producing damage multipliers smaller than expected.

 

A linear function could work here as it does with the relationship between Molt's percentage of lost hitpoints and the damage multiplier. For instance, the relationship between the slope and power strength could just be something simple such as the following expression:

 

m = constant x Power Strength.

 

So if I just have 130% power strength and use 0.5 as the constant:

 

m = 0.5 x 1.3 = 0.65

 

Damage Multiplier = 0.65 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1.

 

If necessary, there can be an upper and lower limit for the slope. That way, players who do run minimum power strength can still get a reasonable damage boost from this combo.

 

This type of relationship is simple, it's intuitive, and it doesn't minimize the damage output of this combo for players who are not expecting to be hindered by their choice of power strength.

 

 

Another alternative is to simply remove power strength dependence, and allow the multiplier to be equal to:

 

Damage Multiplier = ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

With this expression, the damage multiplier will always be less than 2 regardless of power strength. A player running minimum power strength, maximum power strength, or anything in between will be able to achieve the same damage multiplier for the same percentage of lost hitpoints. I personally like this idea more than the previous as it puts no one at a disadvantage.