[The problem with Nightwave]

/s

[The problem with Nightwave]

Hello everyone, I am not a frequent visitor to the forums but last week I’ve ran into a problem with one particular Nightwave challenge and I’d like to share my frustration that the developers of this wonderful game could do something like this.

The challenge that made me upset is last week’s bullet jump challenge that required the player to bullet jump exactly 150 times. I don’t want to be forced to bullet jump in my missions, I want to explore the game and its many tilesets at my own pace and trying to force players into a specific playstyle like that just seems wrong to me. I like to explore the different maps in Warframe and being forced to rush through the mission like that just ruins my immersion.

It’s not all about immersion too, - The challenge is needlessly grindy and repetitive, I don’t want to spam click my keyboard for 150 times?! Not to mention all of the rewards locked behind the Nightwave system, behind challenges that oppress the player into playstyles they don’t enjoy.

I personally think that bullet jumping and movement in general should be re-worked to a slower version so players can truly immerse themselves in the world of Warframe, you can’t even see the work artists put in the environment if you run through the map so fast.

All in all I have to say that I am quite disappointed with the direction that Nightwave is heading. I’ve expected better from you DE.

[Nightwave + alerts removal feedback]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

They should not replace the once 10m alert missions for an 1hr run only to get 5k standing.

So you'd be ok with it if it gave much more standing?

[Nightwave + alerts removal feedback]

4 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Also, you can instantly test your "limits" in Sorties or Arbitrations. 

Sorties are very short and Arbitration scales way slower than regular survival enemies, so you can't properly test anything in those.

We need more High level survivals in Nightwave.

7 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

I wouldn't call 5000 reputation toward Grindwave a reward frankly (This is not really targeted against you).

Yeah but that's more reward so that's always welcome.

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Actually, DE have heavily weighted the rewards system for this in one specific way: the Umbra Forma is the most unique such reward the game has seen. It is something which cannot be purchased and cannot be farmed, and does something which no other item in the game does. Now, that’s likely not going to stay the same, I expect that in future there will be more of them, and there may be other ways to access them, but for this first season where DE are testing the waters, they put a hefty carrot at the end of the run.

 

That aside, it’s hardly going to ruin the fun of Nightwave for DE to leave the challenges the same, and to then implement a catch up mechanic, or possibly a way for people to catch up in a later rotation.

so the reason you're sad with Nightwave is because you might miss Umbral Forma? Really?

As for the Catching up problem this might be useful:

 

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Before Nightwave, Warframe did not work in ten week seasons where missing more than a week locked you out of the best rewards for two months. If a person missed an Alert, or had to be away for the weekend of an Event, then such is life, they missed it, but something else will cone around and so they can just get back to playing Warframe.  

 Now, though, with the game operating in ten week seasons and with all credits and standing earned being wiped at the end of each season, it’s that much more likely for a person to miss a week or two due to real life reasons, do the math, realise it’s no longer possible for them to get what they wanted, and just say “Screw it, the rest of this season just isn’t for me. I’ll see you when the next season starts. Maybe.”

 

Turning the game into a weekly job is fun for some people, but it is inevitably going to drive others away...and yet I actually have a positive suggestion: incorporate some kind of catch-up mechanic for people who miss an entire week of Standing.

Now let's say you missed half of the Nightwave, so what happens? Nothing. You can still complete as much as you can and get the rewards, you won't get to the end, but there doesn't seem to be any progression to the rewards anyway: the first forma pack (Imo best reward) is at rank 7. You might miss the end cosmetics but you will still get everything you need. If missing out on a syandana and armor pack makes people quit then no game has a future.

I'd argue that it's easier for people who can't be online every day now, - with the creds you can just buy what you need instead of waiting for a nitain alert that you might miss and have to wait another day for.

It's not a job. It's the same Warframe gameplay, but with additional goals & rewards.

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Okay. Please understand that I’m not being sarcastic or snarky in anything that I am about to say, I’m being sincere:

It is incredibly frustrating trying to talk about this when people respond with the equivalent of “It’s easy, just do it, there’s no problem, you’re just being a noob.” It is as if you literally did not read my post at all, and just mentally substituted in a strawman argument. It is as if I find myself talking to folks who are either being deliberately dishonest, or who plainly have no idea what I am talking about.

 

I am in no way arguing for the challenges to be made easier. I invite you to go back through my post history on this topic and search for a post in which I say that the challenges should be made easier. You will not find such a post.

 

What I am actually talking about is the ten week period in which you have to earn at least 30k standing per week or be locked out of the best rewards. I am not talking about difficulty, I am talking about time, in terms of weeks in game vs real life responsibilities. Anyone who loses access to their gaming PC, anyone who is away from home for a cumulative two weeks during the period, anyone who has a family emergency requiring them to take care of relatives or children for an extended period, basically anyone whose life becomes unpredictable during that ten week period, they’re going to find this system very alienating.

 

Can you please for the love of God acknowledge that I am not actually talking about difficulty here. I swear, it’s like the moment anyone feels their e-peen is threatened they just lose the ability to read what anyone is actually writing. 

If you have a family emergency or travel for work and don't have enough time to login to a game for weeks you are going to miss out on the events that happened during that time. There is no fix for this, if you want something in-game you are gonna have to play the game m8

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

People criticising a flawed system is not an attempt to ruin it for you, and if your enjoyment of it could be so easily ruined, then it was a very hollow thing to begin with. In your own words, grow up.

That's the thing though, it isn't flawed. In fact it's the best thing that happened to Warframe since I started playing it. And people who unfairly criticise it don't understand the game or the said system, so that does ruin it for the rest of us who do, because there are quite a lot of casuals who are scared of long survivals.

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

My criticism of the system has remained fairly consistent: ten weeks is kind of a long time to require regular, constant dedicated tasks from what is supposed to be leisure time. The rewards are nice, and the challenges are not actually that difficult, but the system will be extremely hostile to anyone who has any kind of ongoing family responsibilities or who travels for work. The system would be great if it incorporated some way of catching up for people who have to miss a week or two.

How is completing a few easy tasks a week ruining your leisure time? The tasks don't even require you to do something you otherwise wouldn't, if I remember right the daily challenges were kill 150 enemies with X element... If that ruins your time with Warframe I really don't know what to tell you.

It doesn't take long to complete all of the challenges; most of them can be unlocked by just playing the game too. If you have problems with completing them I struggle to imagine how do you find time to play warframe at all, - do you just complete a capture mission and log off?

 

 

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

9 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

So the Nightwave system is entirely pointless if they just gave more rewards to "end-game players"? The way I see it, if Nightwave's entire value is simply broken down to the rewards you get at the end of it, then it's simply not a good system. An example would be to take all the exclusive rewards and add them the drop table of various Endless missions at 60 minutes/50 waves/10 rounds, etc, Nightwave would fall to the sidelines for those who've been playing this game a long time. It's the end-game problem that people keep harping on which a new "end-game" is required but anything that isn't rewarding them with something big is "not fun".

And when I mean the first 3 hours, I meant to say the first 3 hours a week. Some of them can be done passively, some can be sped up through better execution such as getting kills, however, much like with 8 Bounty missions and the much worse 60 minute survival, you have to actively set aside that amount of time to get them out of the way before the next refresh. Previously, you could log into the game, pick out something to hunt for and just work towards that as your own goal. Currently, you're logging in and the game is telling you to spend hours on a bunch of game modes that you may not find enjoyable. Whether or not the rewards are good, running 8 Cetus bounty on the lowest difficulty for 40 minutes is not much entertainment to some.

Everything besides story content in warframe is about rewards, it's a looter game and rewards are everything. Would you bother to kill planet bosses if they didn't unlock new planets or give you parts for new warframes? If you want warframe to focus only on gameplay and no additional unlocks/cosmetics/content then please try to imagine if all you had in warframe was vanilla Excal and mk-1 braton and all the possible content was killing level 2 enemies on earth... So yes, endgame has to have good rewards or it isn't fun, that's just the kinda game Warframe is.

When you understand that, it's easy to see how much good Nightwave is doing, - It gives players a reason to try more difficult content that was otherwise forgotten, gives new players a fair progression curve with rewards such as weapon/warframe slots, pushes people to learn game mechanics instead of just slapping on vitallity and redirection and hoping to face tank everything in the game.

[Nightwave fatigue - it's real]

19 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

This is kind of the problem though. You're admitting that they're essentially nothing more than a pure test of dedication rather than an actual test of execution. That's why the long ones are pretty terrible in this regard, they're essentially just asking for 1 hour of your time and most of the difficulty comes from finding people to do it with and finding a period of 1 hour to go through the whole thing.

I disagree, even though it's not as challenging as it could be 1 hour survival runs still provide the push players need to consider team synergies and weapon/warframe combos. Most people don't even go over 20 minute in survivals and it shows, - they are the ones complaining about this. Nightwave provides a reason to go to 60 minutes, because on its own the survival rewards are laughable.

23 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Also, don't you think that there is something a little odd that you don't enjoy content unless the game specifically tells you to do it? According to you, your fun is derived from getting rewards you deem valuable and Nightwave is only a means to that end.

What? There’s nothing odd with that. I am not going to play content that doesn't feel rewarding and Nightwave fixes that.

 

26 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Some people dislike having the game dictate the first 3 hours they spend on the game.

This doesn't even make any sense, the first 3 hours of Warframe are as linear as it gets. New players have no choice what content to do first, - they need to unlock most of the planets first and that takes much more than 3 hours