[Upcoming Protea Changes!]

31 minutes ago, Maryph said:

253 strgh, 203 duration, 3 turrets don't even scratch the paint of 145 chg, DoT is ending before even killing one, are you sure about what you're saying ?
Having to use 2 things plus the ability to make it work correctly against Higher lvl ennemies means it's not really working well

If she had a 3rd tether coil grenade to quickly pack the mobs, it would be fine like that

 

Just tested again and I think the discrepancy is all about bunching enemies up with the ferrox. When I use the Ferrox (but no nukor) on 4 chg and 4 bombards only 2 chgs survived with almost no health. Without grouping them, yeah the results are pathetic. I 100% agree she should have something in her kit to bunch up enemies (besides the implosion which behaves erratically). I've seen other suggestions about making her shrapnel grenades also have a pull effect to them, I think that'd be pretty perfect.

 

20 minutes ago, Vajet said:

It behaves same for projectiles and hitscan. At least for weapons like bow (including Ivaras's exalted) or catchmoon. I'm not sure what other projectiles you are refering to.

 

You might just kill them with the nukor if you're using it to stack viral to make a difference. Basically what you are saying is when all stars align and I use other mechanics to buff damage the turrets do alright. Keep in mind we have warframes that can clear entire rooms with a single button and weapons that deal large amounts of aoe and a lot more damage. Like I said, if the turrets would last significantly longer, I wouldn't compare them against such things because their damage would be additional to whatever else I'm doing. But in it's current state (and one second extra won't really change that), it's an ability you need to use frequently which means you do it instead of just using weapons.

I can understand you enjoy the current playstyle and I do too because it requires to use her abilities a lot and more attention than most warframes. But regardless it underperforms terribly in my opinion and one part of the solution to that is either make blaze artillery a more passive ability (by increasing the duration significantly) or make it more powerful (by increasing damage significantly). I think DE put in a lot of effort into this frame, it truly has a lot of unique and fun abilities. I think it'd be sad if in the end it becomes another mastery fodder frame because of it's overall performance.

Nope, I just tested since I was already in the simulacrum. Lanka modded with pure radiation only procs radiation shooting through shields, whereas redeemer prime modded with corrosive got some electric procs. Also tested with ember's fireball as that would be the closest to protea's turret and that actually was able to proc heat and electric separately despite being a projectile, so I guess protea's turret wouldn't lose the heat proc with that synergy. Just tested with a projectile gun only modded for heat and it got both heat and electric, so yeah. Projectile and hitscan only behave differently as to whether or not the electric gets combined into secondary elements or not, it never gets combined with a primary element, so I was wrong about that.

You're probably right though that I'm trying to make it work in its current state too hard; it's not like I'm opposed to buffing it, I guess I just felt the need to defend it a bit because people generally make the turret sound worse than it is without failing to account for a lot of factors that influence its damage.

[Upcoming Protea Changes!]

24 minutes ago, Vajet said:

Although I don't really care about Volt shield and never suggested it, Volt shield damage does not combine exsiting damage types to create secondary elements. Also the electric damage addition is the part that stacks with multiple shields, so before making a clever argument here, I'd probably check my facts before making false conclusions. I do not agree with the blaze artillery damage being fine with these changes. At least not for level 30+ content. If I spawn in simulacrum - for the ultimate test - 20 heavy gunners at lvl 175 and use a fully forma'd Protea having 250% strength and 12 ammo, the artillery just shoots randomly at them. Fire never stacks higher than 25 (because the guns just shoot different targets even if they're not moving) and most importantly I don't even see the HP moving after several minutes. LOL. It's completely useless. I could clear these with a decent weapon in 15 seconds or less. Now if this would be additional damage, I wouldn't really care or complain but I'm required to constantly put turrets down to get most damage out of them. In other words, I would be A LOT more effective just using my weapons and not using the ability at all. The suggested buffs will not change this.

what you're saying is true for hitscan weapons, but for projectiles it does. Or at least it gets folded into secondary elements containing electricity, so if it's not the case that a heat projectile would combine with electric to make radiation then that's my bad. And yeah you're right that the flat damage each shield adds would add up, but still doesn't seem like the best synergy since I just think of crits with volt shield. Either way, I guess it's no reason to have even less inter-warframe synergy so I was probably too quick to shoot down those complaints.

As for damage being bad, I've got I think 169 strength and enough duration for 15 shots on my build and 3 turrets kills groups of level 145 chg's and bombards in a few seconds. One thing I've found that makes a big difference is bunching up enemies enough for the punchthrough to do its thing and stack up the multiplier in fewer shots, so I've been using the ferrox for that. Then factor in stacking viral with a kuva nukor and you have a pretty well scaling crowd clearer. I can understand if that seems like too much work to make an ability work really well, but I've been enjoying my playstyle with it and I kinda think a lot of people are writing it off sooner than they should.

[Upcoming Protea Changes!]

Dunno why people are still complaining about blaze artillery. Even the current version in game with a high duration build with moderate power strength does very good damage to a crowd of enemies, so doubling its scaling and improving base duration should be great. Also, to people complaining about it not getting volt shield synergy; you realize blaze artillery can't crit (even with avenger) so all that would do is change its damage type to radiation so you miss out on the infinite heat proc stacking, right?

I still have a few big QoL gripes with Protea that aren't reflected here however: First off, her shield grenade buff icon should really have a timer under it. The ability icon timer isn't enough because it just gets overridden by shrapnel grenades. This is especially important because you can't refresh the shield grenade buff until it runs out, so you've really gotta be able to plan around exactly when it's gonna fall off. Additionally, as other people have suggested in the thread, it would go a long way to just have one of the shield grenades auto-apply to protea when you throw them (that might be a good way to let the buff refresh as well, as the game won't have to be comparing durations on shield grenades when deciding if they one should replace the currently active one). Having to chase them down each time can make her survivability feel pretty inconsistent compared to other shield-gate reliant frames, which is only made worse by the clunky cast animation.

As far as Temporal Anchor goes, I think my biggest issue right now with it is that you have to basically avoid energy orbs (or more precisely spots that could spawn energy orbs) like the plague while you have it up. I'm fine with energy you gain prior to rewinding being lost, that's the trade off of the ability. However, I've noticed that energy orbs you get while rewinding just get overridden by an older energy value. I don't know if this is by design or a result of how energy is snapshotted by the ability (I'm assuming that your literal energy value is what's recorded and rolled back through, and not changes to it), but it kind of gives her temporal anchor and dispensary a lot of anti-synergy, especially on a low efficiency build that relies on arcane energize (which is kind of the only way to justify dispensary as a good ability imo). I've been able to play around it, but it's just very counter intuitive to have to do so.

I'd assume the intention here would be to let you do something like activate temporal anchor, throw down a dispensary to later refund its cost, spend a bunch of energy, then rewind to the dispensary that has produced an energy orb to refund your temporal anchor cast (if you get lucky with an energize proc). In practice, what I have to do is throw down a dispensary first, then start temporal anchor well outside of vacuum range of the dispensary and make sure I stay out of that range for the duration.

Other than that, I think the implosion component of temporal anchor should either ignore LoS and just go through walls like Equinox (otherwise range means very little on it), and/or you should be able to stack the damage until you consume it by deactivating temporal anchor without rewinding. then at least you can save up for a while until you have a perfect opportunity with a lot of enemies in LoS/can do enough damage to at least kill high level armored enemies.

All that being said, Protea's a fun frame and I like her a lot, I just think she has some QoL issues that should be addressed (on top of the changes that are already in the works).

[The Deadlock Protocol: RELEASING JUNE 11!]

I'll be surprised if it's not out today, considering we have a Jackal Sortie now. Seems like a waste if they start the week of Jackal sorties before DLP launches.