Pvparanoia Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love 2V2

[CaptainohCaptain]

PVP in "4 to win" game is pretty much like trigger speed contest. If I'd want this, I'll play "Dodge the bullet" flash game.

[Xievie]

If balanced correctly, I wouldn't mind PvP, as long as PvE is NOT changed.

 

I won't mind PvP.

[CaptainohCaptain]

If balanced correctly, I wouldn't mind PvP, as long as PvE is NOT changed.

 

I won't mind PvP.

It won't be balanced correctly. Because it's never balanced in the first place. 

In every PVP there is always a nuke. And nuker wins. As long as we talking not about some 12 vs 12 game.

[Satwo]

the ammount of work put into PvP so far is mostly copy-paste crap from different parts of the game. the only noticable new thing ive seen was the spawn box (which isnt any different then some mountain interfaces, quite simple to make, and is using a copied texture), a few props in the corpus map that shows parts for either large moas or the jackal, and a mining machine that actually turns its bit and shakes.

its simply something thats a side project and is probably something they only work on in down time. even then, there hasnt been a ton of work being poured into it. hell, ive seen free devs working alone put out something more complex because they were bored and wanted to add something to their servers or gamemodes.

they didnt even take the time to remove the nodes from the update! thats how little effort was put into its production. frankly, i dont see the problem with it. half the people here complaining arent even founders, and some of which never paid for platinum and have no reason to complain about something thats free. even the founders are split down the middle about not minding and throwing a temper-tantrum.

one way or another, itll happen. their main focus is PvE. i personally believe they can mix the 2 ways and make a PvPvE system similar to what SMNC did, only instead of constant strait up shooting eachother.

[Carkis]

I want to believe that we don't need to worry, but 'tis a slippery slope.  My fear is that PvP actually becomes popular, forcing DE to refine it beyond a sandbox.  Then people will cry for structure and even rewards, forcing me to participate in an already imbalanced PvE game now thrown into PvP.

 

I know this is all doomcrying, but I SMELL it.

[Liminal]

I know this is all doomcrying, but I SMELL it.

I know what you mean xD

"A pure PvE coop shooter? This is too good to be true." And then you wake up and it's TF2.

 

[MasterAki96]

I love PvE i enjoy it and i know DE wont stop working on that.

About PvP, I like the arena thing and i dont really care if its unbalanced,

Yday i went of colloseum and had lots of fun, its easier to play Pvp with

Friends cos you can make up rules, its a fun break from PvE and should keep being just dat.

[icosta27]

totally agree.. after we got passed the OMG EVERYTHING IS SO OP phase and said alright lets try a legit 1v1 game bows only, rhinos no iron skin... we had the most epic games ever, was seriously a LOT of fun!! Wish I could have recorded it

[General_Krull]

Because the modes should develop independently. DE has tons of potential in PvE, they know this and are actively developing it. New tilesets, new enemies, new frames, new weapons, new modes, etc. Why have all of that polished before you start checking out a new possibility?

 

This is the Beta, it's the time to try out new things, redesign flawed concepts, risk &!$$ing off your whiny fanbase. If the majority of players think PvP sucks and there is no clear way to improve it, then DE can scrap the idea and be able to say "we tried PvP in Beta and it didn't work".

Yeah it's still beta but full release is about 2 months away. They don't have time to try out new things like pvp. They have to focus on bug fixing and new pve content so people who don't like pvp have something to fall back on.

You can make your flimsy pvp after core game is mostly done. 

[-Narauko-]

I do have to wonder how many of you have actually tried PvP to any degree amoung your clanmates. Personally I find it hilarious, Rhino stomp..ohh F*** gg. I play as a Ash a lot cause its OP, but still while invisible I suffer to CC in response to the Loki running around like a joke. Theres so many frames that negate invisibility with their powers.

 

I enjoy PvP and I don't see it being a bad thing when it is more present. The population of hidden PvPers will fund and play this game long after the PvErs have grown tired of endless mission grinding, because while its fun to take out waves after waves of enemys. People are unique and no fight is the same in PvP.

 

The OP is right, many of what PvP needs in this game is already there. Tilesets just need to be given a blip on the world map and spawn points. CTF wouldn't even be that hard to implement with already existing Raid mechanics.

 

DE have said they would not make PvP their prime concern and it wouldn't see much development. I don't think they were lying when they said this because it doesn't need development. It will benefit from PvE balances, tilesets and gamemodes.

[-Narauko-]

@General_Krull

And with that huge nerf I see Vauban sitting at the top of the charts in PvP.  His bastille can easily affect the entire opposite team and just hold them there while they are very quickly ripped to shred without any way of possibly fighting back.  And with stretch its area is huge.

So at this point I just wonder how far (or how long it will take for) PvP will affect PvE and if it will make bastille completely useless in both modes.

You even played Vauban in PvP?

[EganMC]

Well, looks like the Op got a bit more people being an &#! than he thought.

Come on, gentlemen. This guy put up his ideas in the hope to satisfy the questions and needs of some folk, and all he got was flame and mean feedback. Sure, criticise, but don't simply call him thick just because he wanted to help. Why do that? Give feedback that helps the person improve on their ideas, don't tell him to F$@% off because he wanted to help.

 

Besides, PVP isn't that bad of an idea. You all seem to think PVP will be a massive drawback to PVE content, but do you realise with PVP and PVP2 glitchmaps, that's kinda proof that they're already finished. The first set of maps will be released, and then we'll be done with it.

What you don't seem to accept is the fact that MISSION maps are much larger, but most of them are just repeats of previously existing maps.

The map makers can spend the occasional hour into building a small arena, it's just a small thing. You might say "AN HOUR THAT CAN BE SPENT DOING DE STUFF" Nice, but what are the Map Designers currently exploding with work about? Scarves? Yeah, game changing.

 

Chances are, improvements to PVE have already been made, and are waiting to be released. However, PVP is just getting some love before you lot complain about it like a group of children.

 

Half the player base of Warframe enjoy PVP, half don't. Just let DE do what they have planned. Why do you need DE to hurry up so much anyway? Warframe isn't going anywhere, WAIT AND ENJOY IT. Don't scream at them to spend all their time updating warframe, that would just be a tiring clutter. Give the devs a break.

[Darayas]

Played a round last night on an Excal with Torid, Despair and Fragor. Was against a Loki with Strun Wraith iirc, Dual Vastos and Reaper Prime. Lost by a few kills but had an all around awesome game killing some time, nice break from the farming.

 

I think, from a general point of view, as long as DE does not implement incentives for people to compete in PVP (for example, leaderboards), there is no way that PVP will overshadow PVE. It will be a fun way to kill time but if you can't farm anything from it (be it reputation or resources), then it will remain as it is - a standalone 'mini'-game of sorts. 

 

Gameplay-wise, even in this beta stage, I found it enjoyable. I had no hitscan weapons and so I died more than I would've liked, especially to my opponent's 3hko dual vastos, but I found ways to work around it. Where initially my newly-crafted Despair could not match up to his maxed Vastos, I changed tactics by keeping my distance and letting him chase me, then smoking his path with Torid clouds. Eventually, when he turned invisible, I repeatedly used my jump attack to knock him down and buy myself some time. 

 

Climax of the match was when he was chasing me towards storage containers at the base of the stairs with his Vastos. I couldn't outrun him to put distance between us, so I ran around the containers, using the jump attack again to knock him down, and repeatedly drowned the area in Torid grenades. His Vastos got me in the end, but not before the poison killed him too.

 

This isn't me boasting - I lost by quite a large margin on my first colosseum run. What I'm trying to say is, there are ways to work around supposedly 'OP' or undefeatable combos. It will take creativity and experience to learn just what kinds of loadouts work against what kinds of enemies, but that's part of the fun. I trust that when PVP is released in its entirety, even more balance will lend a modicum of viability to what people are shooting down before it's even been fully implemented.

[Fearzffs]

I think pvp will be awsome and I cannot wait for it but I sort of wish for 10 men clan mission only and once they have a 10 men feature they can make a 10 vs 10 pvp conquest capture the flag and so on(or 5vs5). But still I wish for 10 men pve missions.

[whitejackale]

We are no longer at a point in which players can convince DE to completely ignore PvP. So instead of going back and forth with unreasonable arguments, we should all work together to give our feedback in order to get PvP content that the PvP community of warframe finds enjoyable. Lets continue to give feedback for both PvE and PvP content in order to make warframe an even better game.

[Mastikator2]

@Althix

Or a rhino that uses an Acrid + Roar. (The acrid in and of itself will be massively unbalancing if only one team has it)

They removed trinities invincibility so she wont be the sole top frame there.

Vauban with his Bastille will be another big one.  As will nova.  Because while the double damage wont be needed (you can see how many hits it takes to kill in the dojo arenas already) if they massively lower the damage weapons do then MPrime will be very powerful.

Though some frames will be next to useless, such as Nyx and Trinity will probably fall down into that with her loss of invulnerability.

No idea how they could even hope to rework Nyx to have any sort of usefulness in PvP.

1. The acrid is WAAAYYY overpowered in PVE content, if PVP highlights how overpowered it is and leads to it being balanced then that is a boon to PVE.

2. Trinity was not changed for the purpose of PVP, it was changed because invulnerability is cheesy and bad (DE: it's also cheesy and bad for bosses!)

3. Vauban's Bastille has a different effect in PVP than in PVE, so it has no relevance to this discussion.

4. Nyx's Mind Control has the same effect on Tenno as Ancient Disruptors do, which is a pretty useful ability. Making Psychic bolts not suck would also help.

5. Trinity is awesome in PVP, I've tried it myself, link is still extremely useful, just not godmode.

 

People who are anti PVP are wrong about everything and the day when PVP content adds benefit to PVE (very soon) I hope to see them eating their hats in despair.

[JerichoFayne]

If balanced correctly, I wouldn't mind PvP, as long as PvE is NOT changed.

 

I won't mind PvP.

 

This is the essence of the debate right here.

 

If this game started out as PvP, no one would be complaining.  But the minute you start talking about "balancing" a PvE game for PvP, you're on the slippery slope to annihilation.  In this situation balance = nerfs.  There are already more than enough nerfs on the way for different aspects of this game.

 

It would be far better to create an entirely separate instance of the game with an entirely separate rule set, objectives, etc for PvP than to try to make both PvE & PvP coexist in the same game.  This is doubly true given the way enemies escalate in later levels.

[Fearzffs]

This is the essence of the debate right here.

 

If this game started out as PvP, no one would be complaining.  But the minute you start talking about "balancing" a PvE game for PvP, you're on the slippery slope to annihilation.  In this situation balance = nerfs.  There are already more than enough nerfs on the way for different aspects of this game.

 

It would be far better to create an entirely separate instance of the game with an entirely separate rule set, objectives, etc for PvP than to try to make both PvE & PvP coexist in the same game.  This is doubly true given the way enemies escalate in later levels.

Not really. Wow did it by adding resiliance and also by making the stacking stuns to get lower and lower over the time. Here they can do the same thing and it will not be this hard and they think so this is why they are implementing the feature. PvP will be a huge plus in this game and it will attract a lot of players. The population of the game will double if not triple if so so pvp gaming modes come. SO SO not great pvp mods or decent, So So pvp mods just because of the movement and the skill factor which will be present in any match up. So yes PvP will be the best thing that happened to warframe.

[Krjal]

If the PvP stays separate and doesn't impinge on PvE development IN ANY WAY, I don't mind.

 

I like the way FireFall has handled it by having separate set of 'Regulation' gear for PvP. Unfortunately it seems like it's taken a lot of work so I can't really recommend it unless DE wants to get another team on to it.

 

Maybe they have some amazing system for dealing with it or maybe it's just a lunchtime side-project. I guess I still haven't made my mind up and that'll have to wait for more (official) info.

 

My main issue I guess is that I've been waiting for this game since 2004 with the promise of deep story/lore and an amazing setting. This is happening. I contributed to see this become my 'Diablo II in space' (I played that game way too much) but with the incredible story I know DE can create. I love playing with friends but I like to keep my PvP to UT, Quake, Dota2, that sort of thing.

 

I mean PvP in Diablo was fun, if unbalanced and didn't impact the enjoyment of the MAIN part of the game. I dabbled in it and went back to slaying monsters with my mates.

 

I think that's where I'm hoping Warframe ends up. If we have to have more developed PvP, somewhere in between Diablo (II) and FireFall.

 

Eh, I've rambled for long enough.

[Tr1ples1xer]

PvP = S#&$ that will kill this game

 

End. Of. Discussion.

[DirkDeadeye]

"I'm gonna make a post that will convince people who will not stand for reason, or discussion about the topic of PvP, because somehow what I type up here will be the magic bullet that disarms all the dissension towards the idea"

 

"Nope, still angry."

[Terrornaut]

I hope the maps are not coverless arena places, but more akin to regular maps.  Ambush spots, corridors, multiple pathways, cover, parkour potential.  Some frames will shred others or interact in strange ways (bastille, world of fire goes through walls in a wide radius, m primes practically infinite distance, etc)...but mostly, interesting maps will help lots.

[Paprika]

If they implement 2v2 PvP now, People will realize how much more substance there is in PvP than there is in the current PvE. Speaking frankly (I do hope I haven't offended anyone), PvE has no substance. There's no reason to play PvE. Players, at least anyone wanting to have fun, will switch to PvP. New game modes and balancing need to appear. If people fall in love with PvP before PvE actually gets revamped, the Devs will be forced by the general populace to abandon uncharted waters and settle for a PvP oriented Warframe where the PvE side is merely to craft items to rock in PvP. Maybe this all sounds a bit contrived. Yeah. It is contrived. 

 

I'm not bashing on PvP. If the game becomes more PvP oriented, that's fine by me, too. I'm just stating what might happen.

[AprilFools]

Time and resources would have to be spent on the balance of PvP while the rest of the game desperately needs polish, balance, updates etc. This is why everybody is against it; one side of the game is crappy and taking on a whole new project would just brush the original game to the side. As Minecraft has proven on numerous occasions, when you're working on a project and start a new one, that first project will NEVER get finished. Then, the new project would get thrown out the window by a NEWER project, and the cycle continues.

 

When the current, original concept of the game is finished and fine-tuned, I would have absolutely no problem with implementing PvP. But as of now, it shouldn't be more important than the rest of the game.

Edited September 9, 2013 by AprilFools

[theammostore]

If PvP ever becomes a full thing, I will instantly go in their with my Loki, climb to the highest point on the map and go invisible, then kill everyone with my Snipetron. I'll be all pitch black, with no energy color. No one will see me. No one would be able to stop me.

 

We don't need PvP.