Pvp Doesn't Have To Mean Frame Vs Frame Combat

[Catawump]

I posted this on General Discussion and was suggested to repost it here:

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It seems to me that the general consensus is that focus on PvP will distract the game from it's primary selling point: PvE hack and shoot gameplay. Other problems revolve around the different frames (trinity and nyx in a frame vs frame environment is a joke). I absolutely agree with this, but I propose that to just shut off all discussion of PvP would be short sighted and just an excuse to not think creatively over new ideas.
 

The theme of my discussion revolves around the fact that PvP does not have to mean Frame vs Frame. One can keep the same gameplay as single player, yet still make it competitive:

Why not have a competitive mode in which the mission revolves around two opposing squads of tenno, 2v2, or 3v3(if the engine is built for it), completing opposing goals for two different factions competing on the map? 

A competitive mode where victory comes from achieving objectives and not deathmatch gameplay. Where making smart decisions and PvE gameplay is more beneficial than deathmatching. I believe these are the aspects one appreciates out of warframe.

 

So, I suggest a mode in which two factions (ignore faction balance for now, the focus of the debate should be on the idea of a competitive mode and not the balance of an imaginary gamemode that doesn't exist) compete for a randomizeed objective:
 

-Kill the enemy commander
-Capture the enemy datamass
-Win a numerical kill victory over the enemy faction after a time limit
-etc...

The factions involved will work directly with their allied Tenno and support and back them up (I even propose the AI be made more aggressive in the defense of their allied tenno specifically, to give benefit to support-type warframes). The faction's units should also be kept at a strong not-pushover level of difficulty, in the extent that they are just as big of a focus for clearing out, as it is killing the enemy tenno. If a tenno dies, they must wait through a respawn counter and spawn back at "base". The spawn timer gets longer and longer with accumulated deaths. There are no other penalties taken for deaths though. Specifically, no victory conditions can be based on how many times a tenno dies. The gameplay can never be focused on frame vs frame combat.

And that's the mode. I left it intentionally less detailed, so the arguments are not over miniscule details like number-crunching and instead on the overall idea. Remember, it's barely PvP. Deathmatching only hurts the enemy advantage and is not useful for victory, besides hampering the enemy.

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General answers to issues I realize are present:

*Players will always find a "best loadout" to use for each gamemode. 
- The game should be given randomized nightmare mode functions, as well as cold and fire conditions. It's true that there will always be the advantageous builds that are overpowered, but by adding in things like nightmare mode's energy drain, Half shields, reload time, finding less ammo of a certain gun type...etc. everything can change. No single build will be great in every randomized mission this way. 

*Isn't this mode too random if my loadout is weakened by effects that I have no control over?
- It's true, it can be frustrating to lose to random effects and I can totally understand if someone doesn't like this mode just for this reason. The randomness seems integral to getting rid of maximized power builds that plague all forms of PvP though. I'd be willing to make the sacrifice, but that is only my opinion. I believe you'd find that better players will still win more games overall, even if individual game scores are impacted because of effects.

*Can't I just run through all the enemies with speed/invisibility and accomplish the mission without any fighting?
- Lockdowns should be made much quicker in this mode. Stealth should absolutely be a part of the gameplay, but stealth detectors need to be added in. I think single player even needs this. In addition, because of randomized gameplay modes, the mission may not always require speed. Sometimes you may have to kill an enemy commander, get a higher kill count, etc...

 

*Isn't this just turning Warframe into a MOBA?
-My other thread got this question a lot and honestly, as someone who has played MOBA's in the past, I don't really feel like anyone knows what constitutes a MOBA. There's no leveling up. No shopping for items. No laning phases. Teams aren't worried about how much gold they have...etc... (Literally, none of the gameplay that makes up 90% of your average MOBA)
This suggested mode is literally just the single player of Warframe adapted to accommodate competition. The only real comparison is the presence of AI controlled units.

* "Wouldn't _______ frame/weapon be overpowered?"
- The idea of the gamemode should be the focus of discussion and not possible balance issues. Because this mode is so similar to the original coop gameplay of Warframe, you'd find that any balance issues in the normal game will be present in this mode, as well. But, that conversation is going on in many other threads throughout the forum and is ultimately futile to argue about here.

*As a final statement, this game mode should never be about the rewards gained. Rewards should be kept for E-peen bragging rights, cosmetics, and clan rankings. Always kept as just a purist activity for merely competing against others.

TL;DR: There's ways to make PvP competitive in a way that doesn't change the PvE based hack and shoot gameplay of warframe that attracts it's fans in the first place. My suggestion is merely an idea. Don't be hung-up on things like number values and keep only the theme and idea of the gamemode in mind.
 

Wall o' text over.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Catawump

[alchemistjkt]

nice copy/paste op.

[Catawump]

nice copy/paste op.

Hah, indeed my bad. A few things were added. Someone just suggested I repost in this section of the forum though.

[Gryphticon]

That's what clan wars will look like but not PvP since it's PvP and PvP means that you need to PvP people and not PvE against players. PvE against players are in events.

[Catawump]

That's what clan wars will look like but not PvP since it's PvP and PvP means that you need to PvP people and not PvE against players. PvE against players are in events.

:| I feel like you didn't read the post. Literally, my whole post was about the exact opposite of that. You just disagree with everything written?