Quality>Quantity (In My Opinion)

[Crunchyblack]

Let me start off by saying I do not think I'm super awesome, leet, uber or pro, and that I don't exactly have a huge amount of forum experience, and that this is just my opinion and nothing more. Keep in mind I do not want to increase the difficulty of the game, just to lower the amount of enemies. Some of these ideas would require better A.I. but we will eventually need to address this issue anyways so we may as well throw it in.

 

It's a simple topic, I believe currently the game is far too much about giant AoE, killing huge groups over and over, and relatively little fear at higher levels of play regarding a basic enemy. I would love for four to five Grineer to inspire the same amount of caution as a room full of them. Currently if you're playing one of the ten out of fourteen Frames that have a massive AoE, when you come across a large room full of enemies you smash your four, watch the numbers and move on after manually firing upon the few survivors, this to me is a bit boring and special mobs get lost in the fray and forgotten.

 

Without much ideas of how to continue on, I'll list a few of the integral changes that would take place and make the game a bit funner (to me).

 

Shield Lancer

 

Arguably weaker than even a regular mob they seem slow and useless, I'd love to see these Grineer form formations and even more-so see another Grineer huddle behind them firing overhead akin to Army of Two. I know they're supposed to be doing this but they usually do not, instead they usually end up in the back of the wave and reducing the amount of mobs in general would help with this.

 

Heavies/Elites

 

When I hear Lotus call out that a "heavy unit is approaching" it does nothing, now I don't want it to become a pants filling experience, but it would definitely be awesome for a group to approach it with more caution than it just being the last enemy left after an AoE.

 

Commanders

 

It would be excellent for a Commander to actually, well command. As it sits now they just switch teleport which sometimes works in your favor, hell I've even had it save me from the Stalker in nightmare mode. I'd love for them to be able to Roar like Rhino, to inspire their men to take more cover and really dig in. This is more of an A.I. situation, but it would be very awesome for me to dread there being an enemy Commander within their ranks.

 

 

Tech

 

Again basically the same points I made for Commander, although it's basically A.I. again watching a group of Corpus entrench themselves with Shield Ospreys overhead and Mine Ospreys creating a perimeter would be a fun change up from the current strategy of "let's see how many of us can pile in this room".

 

Infested

 

I would enjoy for the Infested to became the main force for the giant packs and huge amount of enemies, I know a lot of people love the AoE and enjoy the constant threat of being overwhelmed and Infested could be the face of this more-so than they already are, while adding more of a variety between factions.

 

Cons - Enemies would be just big dumb bullet sponges (even more-so).

 

While I don't want enemies to become this there's no way to get around the fact that with AoEing them down no longer being an option they will definitely feel this way, but currently even higher level regular mobs are squishy little devils and nothing more. I don't want the game to become "harder" in the sense of being flat tanky with the ability to four shot heavy frames, I don't want them to feel like such insects either. Instead of fifteen mobs with one-hundred health I'd love to see five mobs with three hundred health and so on, with increased damage. I feel like this would liven up the game, the risk and the variety of the special enemies you encounter instead of them all feeling the same, with strategies to counter them changing between Frames.

 

Of course this is all just my opinion, and I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't wondering how the community felt, so please do let me know and either way, good luck.

[CaptainohCaptain]

Actually, your guesses will be nothing when they will hit the ground of gaming. You should make your guesses based on community's most hated enemies.

Grineer: Roller, Napalm, Helion.

Corpus: Fusion MOA (Actually, his drone), partially, shield drones (Lets them survive AoE OMG).

Infested: Toxics, Disruptor.

 

You see the pattern? All the top-hated enemies got the roots either in crippling players/being hard to hit or nuking the hell out of them. Stick to these parts. It's not only exclusive to shooters, it's the same in strategies, MOBAs, slashers, adventures...

Edited September 11, 2013 by Icouldjustkissyou

[Crunchyblack]

Actually, your guesses will be nothing when they will hit the ground of gaming. You should make your guesses based on community's most hated enemies.

Grineer: Roller, Napalm, Helion.

Corpus: Fusion MOA (Actually, his drone), partially, shield drones (Lets them survive AoE OMG).

Infested: Toxics, Disruptor.

 

You see the pattern? All the top-hated enemies got the roots either in crippling players/being hard to hit or nuking the hell out of them. Stick to these parts. It's not only exclusive to shooters, it's the same in strategies, MOBAs, slashers, adventures...

 

I have a love-hate relationship with most of these enemies, I hate them because they disable me/hurt, but I love them as well because they inspire feelings of annoyance and actually feel unique.

[Hayden11121]

The only real hated enemies are the ones that can do something, Icouldjustkissyou, notice that?

 

In all honesty, this game is going into a deep hole. Everything is focused on supernuking and face tanking to the extreme.

 

I still find fun in using Loki, but most if it is solo play, just because when someone else joins, it turns into a spam fest of the 4 button.

It's sad that DE let the game become like this, but I'd love to see more capable enemies that can't be handled easily.
 

[CaptainohCaptain]

The only real hated enemies are the ones that can do something, Icouldjustkissyou, notice that?

 

That's what my point is about.

[Iris94]

+1 to you sir :)
I always voted for that kind of combat...also shields, heavies and commanders should have some shield that they can deliver to units arund them and it protects from 80 percent of non bullet dmg
This way 50 % of time they would resist your number 4 and would dmg the F*** out of you :)

[EganMC]

Four or Five Grineer in a room aren't supposed to create fear in the player, or propose a danger at all unless they're level 100+, and even then...

 

The point of being a Tenno, of being able to command an amazingly powerful Warframe suit, of being an excellent Gunman and Swordsman and being able to adapt to ANY situation, is that 4 or 5 enemies won't scare you. This isn't any other shooter like Uncharted, where 4 or 5 enemies can easily kill you. This is Warframe, where you are a weapon of unimaginable power, unable to be defeated by even the greatest legionnaires or commanders of the greatest squads in space, but only if you have skill.

 

How useless would you feel in a game based on fighting HORDES of enemies, if you were scared by a mere few grunts? 

[Crunchyblack]

The only real hated enemies are the ones that can do something, Icouldjustkissyou, notice that?

 

In all honesty, this game is going into a deep hole. Everything is focused on supernuking and face tanking to the extreme.

 

I still find fun in using Loki, but most if it is solo play, just because when someone else joins, it turns into a spam fest of the 4 button.

It's sad that DE let the game become like this, but I'd love to see more capable enemies that can't be handled easily.

 

 

I couldn't agree more, I love the game and I love the feel of it, but I would love for enemies to stand out more as individuals and less as fodder.

[Hayden11121]

I couldn't agree more, I love the game and I love the feel of it, but I would love for enemies to stand out more as individuals and less as fodder.

Such as Loki. Loki is meant for big time bosses. Look at how he handles Phorid so well.

 

You can use Decoy, let it take two swings, and Switch Teleport Phorid away, rince and repeat. Use Invisibility to lose track of him, Switch Teleport to confuse the ancient that was about to swing at you, etc.

 

Loki is master of Manipulation when it comes to single targets, and in all honesty, Bastille should still be OP because 4 people shouldn't be fighting more then 3x their size in any scenario! I mean, even Halo Spartans had backup.

 

We overall need frames meant for more single targets. Trinity, Loki, Volt, etc.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Hayden11121

[CaptainohCaptain]

Four or Five Grineer in a room aren't supposed to create fear in the player, or propose a danger at all unless they're level 100+, and even then...

 

The point of being a Tenno, of being able to command an amazingly powerful Warframe suit, of being an excellent Gunman and Swordsman and being able to adapt to ANY situation, is that 4 or 5 enemies won't scare you. This isn't any other shooter like Uncharted, where 4 or 5 enemies can easily kill you. This is Warframe, where you are a weapon of unimaginable power, unable to be defeated by even the greatest legionnaires or commanders of the greatest squads in space, but only if you have skill.

 

How useless would you feel in a game based on fighting HORDES of enemies, if you were scared by a mere few grunts? 

You know, powerful doesn't mean "press x to win". 

I got good old game called Gun Metal in mind. You are driving the super hi-tech transformer mech, which is the last know-how of Helios Warfare. Still, you've got a lot of different enemies with tricky parts, so playing dumb (Like staying in suit mode when bombers fly around) will get you killed in no time.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Icouldjustkissyou

[Crunchyblack]

+1 to you sir :)

I always voted for that kind of combat...also shields, heavies and commanders should have some shield that they can deliver to units arund them and it protects from 80 percent of non bullet dmg

This way 50 % of time they would resist your number 4 and would dmg the F*** out of you :)

 

Agreed, Commanders and "special units" just don't feel special, they feel like another goomba with a different gun.

 

 

Four or Five Grineer in a room aren't supposed to create fear in the player, or propose a danger at all unless they're level 100+, and even then...

 

The point of being a Tenno, of being able to command an amazingly powerful Warframe suit, of being an excellent Gunman and Swordsman and being able to adapt to ANY situation, is that 4 or 5 enemies won't scare you. This isn't any other shooter like Uncharted, where 4 or 5 enemies can easily kill you. This is Warframe, where you are a weapon of unimaginable power, unable to be defeated by even the greatest legionnaires or commanders of the greatest squads in space, but only if you have skill.

 

How useless would you feel in a game based on fighting HORDES of enemies, if you were scared by a mere few grunts? 

 

I completely respect your opinion and would never deem it to be "wrong", but do all of them have to be "grunts" except for the few enemies that actually require crowd control and strategy? My opinion might be a bit overkill but I still do feel the average unit is a bit of an idiot, unworthy of the attention of a Tenno in the first place. They seem hapless and pointless, if we can commit huge genocide on them in the first place what makes them such a threat in the first place?

[Hayden11121]

the average unit is a bit of an idiot, unworthy of the attention of a Tenno in the first place. They seem hapless and pointless, if we can commit huge genocide on them in the first place what makes them such a threat in the first place?

And that's why I rush.

[Crunchyblack]

Such as Loki. Loki is meant for big time bosses. Look at how he handles Phorid so well.

 

You can use Decoy, let it take two swings, and Switch Teleport Phorid away, rince and repeat. Use Invisibility to lose track of him, Switch Teleport to confuse the ancient that was about to swing at you, etc.

 

Loki is master of Manipulation when it comes to single targets, and in all honesty, Bastille should still be OP because 4 people shouldn't be fighting more then 3x their size in any scenario! I mean, even Halo Spartans had backup.

 

We overall need frames meant for more single targets. Trinity, Loki, Volt, etc.

 

I completely agree, when a new Frame comes out people are disappointed if they don't come out with a huge AoE because this has become the meta of the game, while single target damage/maniplulation Frames get left in the dust.

[Crunchyblack]

And that's why I rush.

 

Ha, fair enough.

[EganMC]

You know, powerful doesn't mean "press x to win". 

 

You realise, and I'm sure you do, In the later levels, Pressing a button to win doesn't work (except with Chaos and maybe M Prime)? Everyone lives.

 

 

I completely respect your opinion and would never deem it to be "wrong", but do all of them have to be "grunts" except for the few enemies that actually require crowd control and strategy? My opinion might be a bit overkill but I still do feel the average unit is a bit of an idiot, unworthy of the attention of a Tenno in the first place. They seem hapless and pointless, if we can commit huge genocide on them in the first place what makes them such a threat in the first place?

 

In the later levels, things begin to fan out. You can't kill all enemies with a button, you can't even kill a grunt-like enemy that easily. 

The reason grunt-like enemies are so easy is because there are LOTS of them. If, like you say, all basic enemies were made into full-blown threats, then the game would have to compensate by making very FEW of them.

Around Pluto or T3 void, normal enemies have to be avoided, they have to be killed tactically. 4 doesn't kill them, neither does 1, 2, or even 3. You have to use your WEAPONS to beat them, there is no best solution.

And I know I'm talking a lot about the late levels, and I should focus on earlier levels, but the early levels are meant to be an ease into the challenge that is coming.

Also, It's called an "Ultimate" for a reason. It kills. It's supposed to. It costs 100 energy, that isn't cheap, and you usually can't spam it.

 

I think you're all being somewhat silly with the way Warframe is built. Having all these strong enemies all over the place makes the game completely unreasonable, and WITHOUT powers, the game becomes impossible. How can you survive an endless wave of constant power without a Snow Globe, especially when Avalanche does very negligible damage? The proper way the game is played is to play around Utility based Warframes, where frames like Ember lose their viability. Without power, Ember becomes completely USELESS. Overheat doesn't even defend you properly now, so why nerf it's damage as well?

Edited September 11, 2013 by EganMC

[Crunchyblack]

You realise, and I'm sure you do, In the later levels, Pressing a button to win doesn't work (except with Chaos)? Everyone lives.

 

They totally do live, but currently the only way to access this point is to do defense missions which eliminates a large portion of play-styles.

[CaptainohCaptain]

You realise, and I'm sure you do, In the later levels, Pressing 4 to win doesn't work? Everyone lives.

Yeah, yeah, pressing 4 by a single person don't work on, approximately, level 55 for Rhino (Nova has her bread and butter anyway, cowering inferno with 50% slow and double damage, while damaging them really bad with all these explosions). It requires additional "4" press and proper equipment (i.e. 4 syphons).

Mate, I've got enough T3 defenses and high waves defenses to get an eye cancer and get sick of it. Same 4 to win, with addition of "Don't play with randoms".

[Mastikator2]

Actually, your guesses will be nothing when they will hit the ground of gaming. You should make your guesses based on community's most hated enemies.

Grineer: Roller, Napalm, Helion.

Corpus: Fusion MOA (Actually, his drone), partially, shield drones (Lets them survive AoE OMG).

Infested: Toxics, Disruptor.

 

You see the pattern? All the top-hated enemies got the roots either in crippling players/being hard to hit or nuking the hell out of them. Stick to these parts. It's not only exclusive to shooters, it's the same in strategies, MOBAs, slashers, adventures...

And when the DE listen to how to make the game better they tend to make it worse.

They're enemies, we're supposed to hate them. I sometimes blow ultimates against Grineer Rollers just because I hate them. Yes to making enemies more hateworthy.

[Crunchyblack]

And when the DE listen to how to make the game better they tend to make it worse.

They're enemies, we're supposed to hate them. I sometimes blow ultimates against Grineer Rollers just because I hate them. Yes to making enemies more hateworthy.

 

I am so guilty of this as well.

[EganMC]

They totally do live, but currently the only way to access this point is to do defense missions which eliminates a large portion of play-styles.

 

Even enemies in Neptune have survived many maxed Avalanches from me, along with many other ultimates from my other frames. I never use ultimates anymore, unless they're useful, like Radial Disarm or Molecular Prime.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, pressing 4 by a single person don't work on, approximately, level 55 for Rhino (Nova has her bread and butter anyway, cowering inferno with 50% slow and double damage, while damaging them really bad with all these explosions). It requires additional "4" press and proper equipment (i.e. 4 syphons).

Mate, I've got enough T3 defenses and high waves defenses to get an eye cancer and get sick of it. Same 4 to win, with addition of "Don't play with randoms".

 

Yes, Molecular Prime is an exception, but for the majority of other moves and Warframes, press 4 to win stops working. I know you're a decent Veteran and have played your fair share of high level missions, but it still doesn't work for most damage based ultimates.

Even if it does, they're called Ultimates for a reason. 100 energy, a lot of damage. Can't find any energy/Don't have Energy Siphon on all four of your teammates? Use GUNS.

Mate, I know you've done enough T3 defences and other high wave defences, but you should know that, unless with Nova, 4 doesn't win.

[CaptainohCaptain]

Even if it does, they're called Ultimates for a reason. 100 energy, a lot of damage. Can't find any energy/Don't have Energy Siphon on all four of your teammates? Use GUNS.

Mate, I know you've done enough T3 defences and other high wave defences, but you should know that, unless with Nova, 4 doesn't win.

Funny thing is, guns isn't an ability replacement. It's the surogate. I've got 30 enemies incoming and I'm ready to get owned. Will the Acrid save the day? No, that will be stomp with heavy damage and 9 sec disable. Sure I can shoot at them while I have my "cooldown", but I'll be obligated to stomp once more anyway and I doubt that I'll be able to kill them with guns.

[Crunchyblack]

Even enemies in Neptune have survived many maxed Avalanches from me, along with many other ultimates from my other frames. I never use ultimates anymore, unless they're useful, like Radial Disarm or Molecular Prime.

 

Decided to check myself (after I wrecked myself) and I was wrong, enemies on Neptune do easily go down to my Rhino Stomp, but on Pluto your average joe will survive within an inch of his life.

[EganMC]

Funny thing is, guns isn't an ability replacement. It's the surogate. I've got 30 enemies incoming and I'm ready to get owned. Will the Acrid save the day? No, that will be stomp with heavy damage and 9 sec disable. Sure I can shoot at them while I have my "cooldown", but I'll be obligated to stomp once more anyway and I doubt that I'll be able to kill them with guns.

 

That's not a "Press 4 to win", that's Utility. Being able to suspend enemies in the air for an extended period of time doesn't mean you automatically win, especially since you usually have to kill them yourself afterwards. Yes, a few stomps will kill the group you suspended, but it has a short radius and usually in late game only works well for crowd control. You can kill a group of 15 enemies with a few stomps, but you'll have spent 200-300 energy just trying to kill them with it. There are better solutions, such as simply killing them while they're airborne and retreating a bit to finish off the rest once they are freed, and with the damage you dealt on the first stomp, then you'll be ready to kill. Yes, guns aren't an ability replacement, they're an entirely different concept. Yet they aren't as expensive to use, and work well when chained with abilities that can compliment them.

It's not "Press 4 to win", it's "Press 4, then try to win"

[EganMC]

Decided to check myself (after I wrecked myself) and I was wrong, enemies on Neptune do easily go down to my Rhino Stomp, but on Pluto your average joe will survive within an inch of his life.

 

Then I apologise for my mistake, I've never played Rhino, but I have tried some other ultimates that just don't reach the bar.

Although I stick with the point that Utility easily beats pure damage-dealers.

[Crunchyblack]

That's not a "Press 4 to win", that's Utility. Being able to suspend enemies in the air for an extended period of time doesn't mean you automatically win, especially since you usually have to kill them yourself afterwards. Yes, a few stomps will kill the group you suspended, but it has a short radius and usually in late game only works well for crowd control. You can kill a group of 15 enemies with a few stomps, but you'll have spent 200-300 energy just trying to kill them with it. There are better solutions, such as simply killing them while they're airborne and retreating a bit to finish off the rest once they are freed, and with the damage you dealt on the first stomp, then you'll be ready to kill. Yes, guns aren't an ability replacement, they're an entirely different concept. Yet they aren't as expensive to use, and work well when chained with abilities that can compliment them.

It's not "Press 4 to win", it's "Press 4, then try to win"

 

But it's not short ranged, it's twenty-nine massive meters (Stretch equipped) with a low cost of seventy energy (Streamline Equipped), with two mods this enables me to stomp four times while Energy Siphon is halfway to my fifth, either way your feedback is awesome and I appreciate your very good points.

 

 

Then I apologise for my mistake, I've never played Rhino, but I have tried some other ultimates that just don't reach the bar.

Although I stick with the point that Utility easily beats pure damage-dealers.

 

But Rhino does eight-hundred damage base (one-thousand and forty with Focus) while Avalanche deals one-thousand (one-thousand four-hundred and fifty with Focus and Squall Helmet) at twenty-one point seven five meters, while also doing bonus damage to shields.