Suggestions for *End-game* solutions

[Razanzel]

I'm gonna jump straight into it, the main reason I'm suggesting this is to be able to use our builds/acquisitions for something that requires them. That would be repeatable challenging content with a reward that makes you wanna do it again and again.

I was thinking about a new planet, or maybe open zone like PoE, with challenging enemies. Some of the missions would require you to use the many features the game gave you, like Railjack, Necramech, Operator, Archwing, powerful mods, etc. Therefore it would link together everything DE releases and not overshadow their older content releases.

As for challenging enemies, I think of enemies that move fast, and shoot rockets at you often, or stuff like that. It would have you forced to use the wonderful Warframe mobility system at its full potential. Those enemies would have a lot of HP and some resistances, forcing players to have different builds to kill them. I even thought of some map design where to squad goes through a series of closed room, and encounter different mini bosses with a lot of ads. My point is really to feel, as a player, that becoming good at Warframe would require skill, not just having the right mods.

As for the rewards, it could be something already accessible to other players, so less skilled players would not be forced to do these missions (a pool like Sortie rewards maybe ?). Maybe even throw some unique rewards in that so players could aspire to become better, have a goal in mind. The loots of those maps would also contain almost no ressources, so you would still have to farm them elsewhere in the solar system, like usual.

I think this would be great because it would not change the whole game and make it difficult, but rather just have a goal, a rewarding/challenging activity for veterans, or just people that are very good at the game. It would also make people want to explore the rest of the game because those missions would require you to have unlock previous content (for some missions).

Feedback and thoughts would be appreciated, have a great day o7 !

[Yasha-7HS]

2 hours ago, Razanzel said:

As for challenging enemies, I think of enemies that move fast, and shoot rockets at you often, or stuff like that. It would have you forced to use the wonderful Warframe mobility system at its full potential. Those enemies would have a lot of HP and some resistances, forcing players to have different builds to kill them

 

2 hours ago, Razanzel said:

My point is really to feel, as a player, that becoming good at Warframe would require skill, not just having the right mods.

These are completely contradictory. 

2 hours ago, Razanzel said:

As for the rewards, it could be something already accessible to other players, so less skilled players would not be forced to do these missions (a pool like Sortie rewards maybe ?). Maybe even throw some unique rewards in that so players could aspire to become better, have a goal in mind. The loots of those maps would also contain almost no ressources, so you would still have to farm them elsewhere in the solar system, like usual

So, either there's no rewards worth getting for someone who's capable of completing the content, or there's a few rewards worth getting repeatedly that it's the best farm for X item. There is no in-between, here. 

These are not suggestions, they're generalisations. Going by what is in here, this already exists in the game. Grineer Arbitration Disruption. Ghouls move quickly, and have either explosives or grapples with on death status effects. Manics can spawn. Demolysts with wide varieties of buffs that you can't particularly anticipate. 

Please clear your mind of the idea that having the right mods immediately means you win the game. While it's not much in the way of skill, how you fashion the build and use the mechanics determines success.

[Razanzel]

No it's not contradictory, you just don't understand my idea, don't have enough imagination. Having the right build to take down an enemy doesnt mean you don't require skill to beat him.  Lets say you  have 3 types of enemies, each one of them is immune to every element except one (this is just an example, not an absolute). You would have to have the right build to be able to just do damage to him, and your squad would have to wear different mods to tackle other enemies you cant.
That being said, once you have the right mods on, it doesnt mean youre gonna one shot him. Having the right mods in the game currently means being a god and one shotting everything. Thats why Im suggesting challenging enemies. And please....ghouls dont move fast and a far from being a threat. Im speaking of an enemy that would throw stuff at you that you HAVE to move away or you will die, or receive a lot of damage.

Theres no reward for someone able to complete the content ? Do you realize how much this doesnt make sense ? Just overcoming a challenging mission is a reward in its own (not talking about staying 2 hours in a repetitive survival mission...) Also, DE can just create new rewards. Use your imagination.

No its not generalisation, its suggestions, you are obviously trolling or just saying utter nonsense.

You obviously dont know what I am talking about, do some research on how many people feel about the lack of challenge in Warframe.

[Yasha-7HS]

19 hours ago, Razanzel said:

Having the right build to take down an enemy doesnt mean you don't require skill to beat him.

Requiring a strict set of mods or a single loadout to do the content at all removes most aspects of skill. There's no flair, there's no uniqueness, there's no difference, it's one choice that's viable, and then all other choices are not. All this: 

19 hours ago, Razanzel said:

Lets say you  have 3 types of enemies, each one of them is immune to every element except one (this is just an example, not an absolute). You would have to have the right build to be able to just do damage to him, and your squad would have to wear different mods to tackle other enemies you cant.

Would be decent mechanics in an MMO. This is Warframe. Cooperation in non-existant, and it's not only because we don't have missions where cooperation is necessary. We don't have the mechanics. Synergies are actively banned by the developers because it makes a combination of multiple people in a lobby too efficient. Aside from the absolutely terrible VoIP, the only way we have to communicate with each other any relevant tactical information is a text chat with varying visibility, and a waypoint that doesn't even work properly. 

Additionally, this isn't a Souls series game, or Nioh, or Ghost runner.

19 hours ago, Razanzel said:

Im speaking of an enemy that would throw stuff at you that you HAVE to move away or you will die, or receive a lot of damage.

One shot mechanics on enemies akin to a Manic Bombard doesn't sound like an interesting mechanic requiring skill in the context of Warframe, where nothing is so well defined and visible that you can accurately tell what its hitbox is at a glance, it sounds like tedium to wait for them to stop moving to unviable locations. 

19 hours ago, Razanzel said:

Theres no reward for someone able to complete the content ? Do you realize how much this doesnt make sense ? Just overcoming a challenging mission is a reward in its own (not talking about staying 2 hours in a repetitive survival mission...)

Yes, that's all well in good in a game not explicitly designed around shooting mobs and obtaining things. A looter shooter, if you will. If there is no reward, no one plays it. Which is why when Steel Path was introduced, the first complaint -- aside from it being scaled too high which was a contended complaint -- was that there were no rewards, or that the rewards were too expensive, or that Steel Essence doesn't drop enough. This is Warframe, a game where you become a mechatronic, interdimensional, god-like yet beatable, "ninja" pirate and obtain things by killing everything in your way. People like being rewarded in this game for doing content with other forms of content, as opposed to 'overcoming a challenging mission' being the sole reward for a grand total of zero recognition and a potential trade ban.

And so, when I typed in clearly and concisely: 

23 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

So, either there's no rewards worth getting for someone who's capable of completing the content, or there's a few rewards worth getting repeatedly that it's the best farm for X item.

in direct response to: 

 

On 2021-01-19 at 4:39 PM, Razanzel said:

it could be something already accessible to other players, so less skilled players would not be forced to do these missions (a pool like Sortie rewards maybe ?). Maybe even throw some unique rewards in that so players could aspire to become better, have a goal in mind. The loots of those maps would also contain almost no ressources, so you would still have to farm them elsewhere in the solar system, like usual.

I referred specifically and exactly my problem with your idea of what the rewards should be in the context of the Looter Shooter game that is Warframe. Either you have rewards for players who can't complete that game mode in the first place and get these rewards somewhere else, so for someone that already CAN complete it you have no reward or incentive for completing it OR there's a few items that are either exclusive to or drop better from that mode than anywhere else, which is pretty much exactly the problem with the Arbitrations drop table. 

20 hours ago, Razanzel said:

No its not generalisation, its suggestions, you are obviously trolling or just saying utter nonsense.

No, your entire OP is a generalization. There is nothing that sets the ground-work for a method to create the gamemode in question, there is nothing that details how any of this would be relevant to each other in the grand scheme of the mission, it's: 'there's big fast guys who shoot explosives at you that kill you and you can't do damage to them without having specific mods, there's adds, and somehow Archwing, Railjack, Necramechs, and Operators are involved.' What is even the point of the mission? Do you have an objective? Is it just Boss Rush survival without an end? Do you get ejected out of the mission after you complete so much of it? What is this map design you speak of? 

The fact that you have to say this so much means that you didn't give anything enough thought to make it a suggestion: 

20 hours ago, Razanzel said:

Use your imagination.

Regardless of the accusation that I'm just here to troll you, I'm giving you feedback that in order to make sense of any of what you want, more detail and more specificity needs to be given so that any or all of this has context as to how this would be introduced into the game as something to be played by you, at the very least. 

[Razanzel]

2 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

This is Warframe. Cooperation in non-existant, and it's not only because we don't have missions where cooperation is necessary

You honestly think this is good, and fun ? This just proves me you are absolutely clueless about what makes a good design, how a game can be improved.

You know Warframe is just a big blue-ball fest, every new feature becomes useless in the end once you get it.

Comon dude, I'm not gonna reply to everything you said because I understand now it's worthless. You don't even want this game to become better. I really don't understand your position on this. You're just arguing for fun it seems to me.

You are far from being constructive, this could be a constructive discussion on how to implement more challenging and rewarding activities, but all you do is try to argue that it's not a good idea to make the game better. You obviously don't know how this works, and you transformed this post into an arguing battle that deviates the subject into something people don't want to read.
I see many good posts on this forum being destroyed this way.

Now go do your research about how this game needs a restructure, go look on youtube and dig a little deeper.

[Yasha-7HS]

15 hours ago, Razanzel said:

You are far from being constructive, this could be a constructive discussion on how to implement more challenging and rewarding activities, but all you do is try to argue that it's not a good idea to make the game better. You obviously don't know how this works, and you transformed this post into an arguing battle that deviates the subject into something people don't want to read.

I have asked you three separate times to flesh out the idea on the game mode you intended to create, and to share the map design you talked about in the OP. I've even argued in your case about something people complain about often so that a game mode where everyone has to coordinate their loadouts and fight specific enemies could work. 

You didn't even try to read. Good-bye.