Abilities/energy

[NeverDT]

So I finally got Mag yesterday, and it was good.

But her abilities are a bit underwhelming. I didn't expect to Magneto the entire level to death, but it made me realize that the limitations on abilities are hurting uniqueness between frames. This has to do both with the energy system, and also with the fact that some abilities are setting the bar high - which I think all abilities should aspire to. "Situational" abilities are fine, but we shouldn't have frames that are completely useless against some enemies, or in some situations. And I'm not saying Mag is a useless frame full of purely situational abilities, just that some of them are implemented weakly.

When I speak of "abilities setting the bar high" I refer to abilities such as Slash Dash. It's fast, fun, and extremely versatile - you can deal heavy damage to a boss, finish a boss, punch through a crowded hallway, and get in and out of a pack of enemies (with multiple uses). I've played both Excalibur and Mag and used their abilities a fair bit, so I'll consider their abilities here:

Slash Dash: See above.

Radial Blind: Cast time seems a little long (but then I'm SUPAFASTACTIONGAMERGOGOGO), and it DOESN'T WORK AGAINST BOSSES. Longer range than you'd think, though, and its stun effect is definitely noticeable (and useful). Having abilities just not work against bosses is frustrating though, I'd rather see a 50-75% blind duration reduction so I can at least consider using it as opposed to Slash Dashing all the time.

Super Jump: Deceptively useful. The higher you do a jump attack from, the more damage you'll do, and the Excalibur is one of the two melee-focused classes, making this a nice kit addition. It's also useful purely from a navigational standpoint. That said, it's very floaty. I'd rather have a Jedi Knight-style "WHOOSH" Force Jump, not the crappy floating that was in Jedi Outcast/Academy. I suppose I'm biased against floatiness from how floaty Firefall is.

Pull: The "stun" mentioned in the description is merely a ~1 second stagger, and you can only grab one enemy. Next to Slash Dash it's a straight up letdown. In my eyes, it ought to be able to pull multiple enemies to you and knock them down for an extended period of time while still having a moderate effect on bosses.

Shield Polarize: Seems to work alright on allies. Cuts shields off mobs all right - woo frickin' hoo - cuts about 25%-33% off bosses. Ugh. A more interesting version: "If used on an ally, rapidly replenishes their shields for a short duration, even when they are being attacked. If used on an enemy, rapidly depletes their shields and prevents them from regenerating for a short duration." Also, can I be able to use it on myself? Please?

Bullet Attractor: I want Sargas Ruk's version of this. Enough said. The "bubble" that this ability creates does not seem to be focused on an target, although it requires a target, and half the time my bullets don't even hit the enemy I've targeted with it. On the contrary, Sargas's version makes all the bullets you shoot hit yourself and pretty much guarantees he doesn't miss, with the Gorgon no less. It hurts. A lot. For 75 energy, it ought to.

I cannot give accurate feedback on Radial Javelin or Crush because I haven't used either of them. The one thing abilities have definitely got going for them: they're pretty cool! If I think of alternatives I'll definitely post them, but when your abilities are the main thing distinguishing you from another frame, I think DE has done a great job of giving us unique abilities. The only thing now to do is bring them all up to a high (but reasonable) level of fun/power, and make them usable without getting completely energy starved, which brings me to the second part of this post.

Energy

My issue with energy is that relying on enemies and lockers to drop energy is...well, too unreliable. It's annoying to have a large part of your skillset (if a rather powerful part of your skillset) locked away due to my eternal enemy, the RNG. There are three systems I've considered to replace it, which I cannot take full credit for thinking of, because I discussed them with other people and I know I've seen at least two of them mentioned on the forums. Anyway:

1. Remove energy entirely. Add cooldowns for all abilities, BUT keep energy orbs in the game in a different format: cooldown refreshers. A single orb would cut off a variable amount of cooldown based on the "strength" of the ability (or base it off energy costs right now). Do not make cooldowns too long! Otherwise you'll have players who want to use their ultimate in every room and wait for it to recharge regardless of how long it takes. That said, don't make them too short or it'll be Slash Dash Extravaganza in every room.

2. Replenish energy for attacking enemies (possibly only for meleeing them). I hesitate to say "just add mods that do this", because it's such a useful ability that it'll overshadow just about everything else. This system hearkens to Dynasty Warriors, and everyone knows how good that game was by the fact that they're currently working on the eighth title in the series.

3. Add passive energy regeneration. Most boring way to do it, I think. You could also do this as a mod, but of course, you're back in the "everybody will want to use it and it'll overshadow everything else" theory. Plus waiting around for energy to regen is boring.

I put #1 there because I don't think I've seen it anywhere else, but the more I think of it, the more I like #2, probably because it's the best for encouraging taking risks and being aggressive, which is what this game demands.

Anyway, thoughts on the energy systems and addendums considering the other frames (and ultimates) would be appreciated.

[Kaziel]

I agree completely with the Energy system.

I would like to see more use of class skills, but perhaps make them weaker. I really hope the system gets a serious look and overhaul. Right now it's just too unreliable.

[Sealgaire]

Another problem with abilities is that they become much less useful at higher levels due to damage from weapons outclassing them. On Pluto, slash dash is pretty worthless as you only go through enemies you kill, and it doesn't deal enough damage to kill most enemies there. My melee attack on my Excalibur can kill almost everything with 1, sometimes 2 non charged hits. Slash dash might take off half their health.

A few more random suggestions. The energy cost for superjump was lowered to 10, and now I use it all the time. How about doing the same for Ash's teleport? It costs 75 energy just to put you next to an enemy, which is insane. If it cost 25 and did an automatic critical melee attack at the end, it might be worth using. Also, shuriken is just not exciting me. It launches a single dart that travels too slowly and only does I think 500 damage when maxed, which is less than slash dash I think. If they traveled much more quickly and each upgrade gave you an additional dart, up to 3, then I might use it more. You could clear out a larger cluster of enemies like slash dash or use it up close to concentrate the damage on one enemy. Smoke screen and blade storm I have no issues with.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Sealgaire

[Gaiters]

I agree the energy orbs are annoying, you're at 75 and running around searching for one and you got one of your friends there looking to nab the same thing. I think the orbs actually discourage playing with your friends.

MAG's first three abilities are a bit usless compared to her final ability, which is one of the most op warframe abilities.

[Sealgaire]

Oh yea. I forgot Steve said they were going to make the energy orbs shareable like mods. I guess they havent got around to it. That would probably go a ways towards giving people more energy.

[AlienJay]

From what Ive played so far, I rarely use my abilities. Its alot more easy to just ignore them all together rather than relying on them. the only skill I use as Loki is the stealth one to escape from mobs when it gets to hectic. Even doing just that uses up a large portion of my energy. I feel no diffrent from the guy standing next to me who also never uses his abilities lol.

[ParagonLoki]

I agree that the energy system needs to be changed.In a mission I would like to use my abilities when I want to use them,not after searching for enough orbs for 5 minutes.And after getting enough energy 10 seconds later I need more energy again.I dont rely on abilities but I like using them and its a pity that we use them so rarely.

[GenericBadGuy]

I agree about the energy system causing disparities between power use between the different Warframes and their effectiveness. I also agree the system should be changed, although the skill system would likely have to be changed as well - which I am fine with.

You also get kudos for mentioning the difference between Force Jump in Jedi Knight vs. Jedi Outcast. I got that right away and it makes perfect sense to me but how many people have actually played those two games to compare =D?

[Chribba]

I feel like this game needs to shift a bit more towards abilities. Right now its so hard to get energy that you are forced to mostly hack and slash/ shoot. It also forces you to prioritize abilities. Like why would I ever use my speed boost or enery wall on my volt? That energy could be put to better use just completely eliminating the threat with overload.

[Idle]

If they insist on sticking with the energy drop system, energy drops need to either be instanced to the player so everyone gets their own energy drops or (and I prefer this solution) energy orbs work like D3 orbs in that picking one up affects the entire team. The added bonuses of the latter suggestion are that there is less time just running around picking up energy and you're incentivized to use your energy so you don't just sit at your energy max and waste energy pickups grabbed by teammates.

There is actually a lot of energy in every level but most of it is going to whoever pops the storage canisters first.

[ApokalypsBZH]

I think Steve stated that the orb drops would become instanced like artifact mods or resources.

[Malachia]

simple solution -

* nerf abilities so they arent game breaking (like, slash dash killing a hallway full of enemies in an instant).maybe give abilities a cooldown as well.

* make energy regen to a certain point (if energy is below 50, then regeneration will kick in, until you have 50 or something like that).