Bows And Stealth. Why Do We Need Them Again?

[NuLycan]

The original bow, the Paris, was introduced with the game's overhaul of stealth, and when it was released it was the only silent weapon available. This made the Paris a pretty attractive weapon, and overtime DE implemented more bows with their own pros and cons.

The problem is that with the arrival of new, more powerful LOUD weapons, bows and stealth have lost their appeal and most players tend to just go through missions as fast as possible. Why would you use a bow if you can just burn through a mission with the Soma/Ogris? And there are mods that lower the sound of weapons, and silent secondaries! The despair and Kunai have significantly higher DPS than their primary counterparts. The power of bows is also questionable. A snipetron can outdamage the pants off of a Paris.

Lastly (and this is a problem with the prime weapons as well) IMHO the top tier bows don't seem worth the trouble to get. A dread or Paris prime takes significantly more effort (and luck) to get than a vectis, or a Karak, or a Braton, or a Latron, etc. And even if you wanted to experiment with stealth using the kunai is actually a better solution.

TLDR: Bows should have a stronger presence in the game, and stealth should have a point, otherwise bows and stealth will be passed over by most players.

EDIT: This is feedback on both bows and stealth in general, but mostly bows.

Edited December 21, 2013 by NuLycan

[ParadoxicalRedundancy]

TLDR: Bows should have a stronger presence in the game, and stealth should have a point, otherwise bows and stealth will be passed over by most players.

 

God, DE, RNGJeezus, please. Read this. Bows are really fun, especially with that crunchy headshot sound after you connect a long shot after adjusting your aim for the target's motion.

 

Bows, and most projectile based, charge-trigger type weapons add difficulty to the game, which SHOULD be rewarded by large numbers. I'd consider the Vectis and Lanka a good step towards that, even if the Vectis is a hitscan weapon (the reload time is the pseudo-charge time). The Dread dishes out massive damage (25k on an Ancient headshot in U11.0.0), but all bows should be hitting numbers that big to reward the players for being patient and leading shots and not just holding down the trigger and moving forward.

 

Being strategic in Warframe breaks the monotony of running with your Somas and Synapses and mowing everything down with no abandon. I want a tactical element to Warframe, and not just some mediocre stealth system.

 

EDIT: If Warframe would revamp the stealth system to make us feel like ninjas rather than Rambo, I'd actually dump more than $10 into the game.

Edited December 20, 2013 by ParadoxicalRedundancy

[Alphascrub]

I was thinking DE could buff bows with a higher charged status chances. Considerably higher than 15%. I was thinking charge damage buff across the board could be stronger to, similar to the way the pair prime works, just stronger. 

 

 

As for stealth, well it should be all about drop rates. What do I mean? Higher drop rates for enemies who are unaware of your presence. Obviously in a public game your just going to scream through the game and kill everything very fast, however when your solo you should get rewarded for taking your time and acting like a ninja. Right  you can scan your enemies to see what their loot table is, why not let us get higher drop rates as well?

Edited December 20, 2013 by Alphascrub

[Baigan]

Eventually a stealth focused update will come. Maybe mission types that involve stealth. The main problem right now is that stealth has no rewards on itself other than taking it in for the challenge.

 

You'll get less affinity, less drops, less credits and possibly spend more time than going guns blazing.

[HereticKitsune]

Give bows a guaranteed critical on unaware targets, rework the bows so that some are better for when S#&$ hits the fan and you need to shoot arrows everywhere (high fire rate, decent critical rate) and others are great for when you can take your time, pull back, and nail an unaware Grineer in the face with a high damage arrow with a guaranteed double-damage crit on top of the headshot multiplier (the last bit is why weapons like the Vectis can hit so hard with crit headshots). Oh and bows should naturally have notably higher damage than snipers when the string is fully drawn.

 

Another idea to improve stealth gameplay: Each player has their own detection status. Meaning, Rhino can run in and start stomping around like a lunatic while Loki cloaks, climbs atop the support beams, and begins vomiting stealth-bonus arrows at the Grineer that only know of the hulking mass of death on the ground with them. Also, add a mod that shows enemy cones of vision on the minimap, Metal Gear Solid style. I'd make it a Sentinel mod, because that floating mass of technology next to you already has a ton of advanced sensors to detect when enemies are nearby and whatnot... so why not give them something? I also think the attack behavior mods for the Sentinels should be useable by all models... maybe I don't want my Dethcube to attack everything the moment it realizes they exist, but I want my Shade to attack everything ever until something gets close enough to trigger cloak.

 

EDIT: Oh, right. I forgot to mention another improvement: any enemies killed that are unaware of your presence give an extra "Stealth Kill" affinity bonus to the killer, and all kills made before alarms go off and you're "on the sensors" give an "Off the Grid" affinity bonus to everyone. They would stack, too. "Stealth Kills" and "Off the Grid" kills would also be tallied at the end, giving a credit bonus and a chance at awarding a hard-to-find mod or two (Stealth Kill awards are calculated per-person while Off the Grid awards are given to everyone, and of course they'd stack).

Edited December 20, 2013 by HereticKitsune

[Garth_Tremor]

Bullets beat bow & arrow? how is that??

 

Seriously, bows have thier place in this game, mostly for slow solo stealth missions offer a lot of enoyment for landing headshots, all I need is infrared / heat vision and I can go play Predator on the new jungle tileset.

But I fail to see why do people bother with bows on missions with lots on enemies, where semi or auto guns are just simply better, not to mention Ogris and Penta.

[NuLycan]

Bullets beat bow & arrow? how is that??

 

Seriously, bows have thier place in this game, mostly for slow solo stealth missions offer a lot of enoyment for landing headshots, all I need is infrared / heat vision and I can go play Predator on the new jungle tileset.

But I fail to see why do people bother with bows on missions with lots on enemies, where semi or auto guns are just simply better, not to mention Ogris and Penta.

And that's the mentality a lot of players have. Are you serious? In a CO-OP FOCUSED SPACE NINJA GAME bows are only considered for SOLO runs. Right. This is a game. There should be some logic, but all weapons should be viable for more than a single instance. I'm not asking for rapid fire bows, but I'm also not only using a certain weapon for a single circumstance.

That all being said "Egad bullets are more effective!" Is a moot point in a space ninja game with Druid frames.

[Alphascrub]

And that's the mentality a lot of players have. Are you serious? In a CO-OP FOCUSED SPACE NINJA GAME bows are only considered for SOLO runs. Right. This is a game. There should be some logic, but all weapons should be viable for more than a single instance. I'm not asking for rapid fire bows, but I'm also not only using a certain weapon for a single circumstance.

That all being said "Egad bullets are more effective!" Is a moot point in a space ninja game with Druid frames.

 

Lets not forget that for all effective purposes tenno appear to be shoots some pretty dam massive arrows, and wear suits that give them super human strength. In other words I don't think they are shooting those 560 arrows from a 60 pound draw bow. Also given that mid-evil longbows used to have around 150 pounds of draw I don't think tenno stopped there...

 

In other words It wouldn't surprise me if the draw strength of the bows that are shot are around 300lbs or better with around 1 pound arrows. Thats a truly massive amount of kinetic force. 

Edited December 23, 2013 by Alphascrub

[AttackNitro]

Because they are cool

 

 

/thread

[Jandor]

Up damage on non charged shots to almost equal that of charged shots.

 

Increase the proc chance to about 70-80% on charged shots and increase the charge time.

 

Now they have a niche, proc weapons, used for applying status effects.

(If possible, make the arrow take on the effect of the proc it's going to apply if it's going to apply it, so radiation or blast proc would make the arrow tip glow.)

[CaveCricket48]

Modern bows seem much better than warframe bows.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/131158/nap-bloodrunner-2-blade-mechanical-broadhead-100-grain-pack-of-3

 

Bottom review.

 

 

 

Now, if we're supposed to be shooting a bow in the future being used by a superhuman, I expect the arrows to be a lot more effective than making a grineer lancer look funny with arrows sticking out of him all over the place.

[shut]

I've given up on bows ever since I discovered that Ballistica is a near-direct upgrade to every single one of them.

[Zephyric_Reaper]

Yeah, they just need to 1. give much more exp for stealth kills.  2. gives reward(s) at the end of a mission for completed without alert (fix the alert for infested and void) 3. A better visual aid that you're still on stealth (mainly for people who join you when you're playing stealth 

 

Also, ogris is a silent weapon and I use it for stealth gameplay X) 

[Alphascrub]

Modern bows seem much better than warframe bows.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/131158/nap-bloodrunner-2-blade-mechanical-broadhead-100-grain-pack-of-3

 

Bottom review.

 

 

 

Now, if we're supposed to be shooting a bow in the future being used by a superhuman, I expect the arrows to be a lot more effective than making a grineer lancer look funny with arrows sticking out of him all over the place.

 

I agree. I only shoot 60 pounds of drawn on 400 dollar PSE bow. I'm not even knowledgeable enough about it to tell you the exact model it is, but I can tell you those arrows fly a lot faster than the arrows that are shot in warframe. 

 

Overall I still question the whole pin enemies to the wall thing.... I would think an arrow with enough force to throw a 300 kilo grineer at a wall would just keep freaking going instead of bothering to carry the big sack of meat with it. Overall I really want DE to do some research here.... their bows and arrows act nothing like a actual bow in real life and while I realize this is a science fiction game it does annoy me sometimes. Also sprinting with bow fully drawn superhuman or not is a quite a feet. 

Edited December 23, 2013 by Alphascrub

[Alphascrub]

Yeah, they just need to 1. give much more exp for stealth kills.  2. gives reward(s) at the end of a mission for completed without alert (fix the alert for infested and void) 3. A better visual aid that you're still on stealth (mainly for people who join you when you're playing stealth 

 

Also, ogris is a silent weapon and I use it for stealth gameplay X) 

 

Rocket launchers being silent just needs to die in a hole. 

[Shikazure]

I made a thread about how punch-through mods obliterate the idea of Armor 2.0. Got bashed to oblivion by people for seeking too much realism in a space ninja game.

I wish this game would strike a good balance between being sci-fi unrealistic and sci-fi realistic.

yeah and its a bit silly when your nade launcher shoots a nade slower than you can throw one, yet you can bonk a enemy on the head with a nade and it kills them some how

Edited December 23, 2013 by Shikazure

[Boxyninja]

Yeah, they just need to 1. give much more exp for stealth kills.  2. gives reward(s) at the end of a mission for completed without alert (fix the alert for infested and void) 3. A better visual aid that you're still on stealth (mainly for people who join you when you're playing stealth 

 

Also, ogris is a silent weapon and I use it for stealth gameplay X) 

or just run though and kill anything that gets close to the alarm. did this with rhino and a gorgon on an assasinate mission.

[Zephyric_Reaper]

Rocket launchers being silent just needs to die in a hole. 

 

But...my ninja launcher. :(

 

or just run though and kill anything that gets close to the alarm. did this with rhino and a gorgon on an assasinate mission.

 

Or you can just not kill -anything- with a exalibur while spamming blind. All the alternatives! 

[TDS0Spoderman]

they could add a special drop table if you successfully run a mission without getting detected ( by alarms ) but that would be pushing it 

 

aslo Loki's everywhere 

[Leinender]

make a Status Dread.

Said enough.