Punished For Not Rushing?

[Imbaland]

Like many others, I don't like the idea of rushing. It feels like skipping content, and makes the game kind of boring in my opinion. However, I increasingly find that the game is punishing me for taking my time.

I like to snipe, I find it fun, so the gun I use is the snipetron. It fires pretty slowly, has a 4 bullet clip, and takes around 6 seconds to reload. Needless to say, its not the fastest approach, but I like it. However, the game seems to constantly spawn enemies, all the time, no matter where you are. It just continues to spawn enemies until you finish the round.

A few minute ago, I was playing a mission, I forget the type, where I spawned in a room that had some non essential explorable areas immediately attached to it. I decided to go around there, looking for stuff, during which I got spotted. No problem I thought, time to start shooting. So I shot the enemies that had immediately spotted me, and that was that, or so I thought. Long story short, I had to fight my way back through the passages that got me to where I was (passages that had previously been empty, and that were, for all intents and purposes, air vents), and then fight my way through the room in which I had spawned in.

However, the room I spawned in was quite a long one, and I couldn't very well run the length of it directly at my enemies wielding nothing but a sniper rifle. So I took cover at one end, and started shooting targets at the other. But they kept coming. Even when firing as full auto as the snipetron would allow, I could not dispatch the incoming masses fast enough. They never ran out. It was getting to the point where I had around 60 kill and hadn't even moved past the starting room yet. What's more, since enemies don't resupply ammo and energy/health as quickly as you expend it, I was slowly running out of everything.

So what did I do? The only thing I could do, I went invisible and ran past all of them. The game really didn't give me any other option.

In short, constantly and randomly spawning enemies is a mechanic from yesteryear. It removes all form of strategy in approach for simple hold down W and Mouse 1 mindlessness. Maybe if I had decided to be a shotgunner then I wouldn't mind so much, but as it stands, I really don't have many other options other than to rush through the entire map.

[Ranzou]

Not All of mission is randomly spawning enemies.. for example Exterminate & Mobile defense mission.. and im sure team DE notify that the number of enemy spawn in solo mission is not as many as party mission in latest update..

another alternative..

bring ammo box for only 300 credits or free from daily prize?

or set your card into scavenger..

i never ran out of Ammo except when fighting bosses

Edited April 8, 2013 by Ranzou

[NumberFiveee]

Well.. Sometimes it looks like the game spawns a large amount of enemys, but other times, looks like they are just comming from other parts of the ship..

I've had missions where i fought tons of guys in the 1st rooms, and the next ones were just clear almost all the way to the objective..

[Wintersfall]

bring ammo box for only 300 credits or free from daily prize?

or set your card into scavenger..

i never ran out of Ammo except when fighting bosses

I think you missed the point of his post.

[Imbaland]

Well.. Sometimes it looks like the game spawns a large amount of enemys, but other times, looks like they are just comming from other parts of the ship..

I've had missions where i fought tons of guys in the 1st rooms, and the next ones were just clear almost all the way to the objective..

A possible solution would be to have each room or larger area have a maximum number of enemies. Once that maximum number had been exhausted, or once enough had died in a single room, enemies from other rooms would start moving to your location.

Because the NPCs would have to move from a distant room to the one you were currently in, there would be a lull during which you could move forward if you wanted to. Also, because other rooms could potentially be triggered before your current room had been completely exhausted, the downside would be that you would slowly be fighting greater and greater numbers.

However, if the player/s wanted to, they could choose to hole up in one room with good cover, and try to exhaust the entire map of every enemy NPC. Kind of like a limited defence mission.

This approach would no doubt have exploitable issues, but its a starting point to get the ball rolling.

Ultimately, I just really don't like never ending enemies. What it does is make me feel worse for every enemy I kill, since in reality its just wasted time, time that I'm going to have to spend killing more and more enemies anyway. In the end, the fewer enemies you kill, the better.

[LunarWind]

However, the room I spawned in was quite a long one, and I couldn't very well run the length of it directly at my enemies wielding nothing but a sniper rifle. So I took cover at one end, and started shooting targets at the other. But they kept coming. Even when firing as full auto as the snipetron would allow, I could not dispatch the incoming masses fast enough. They never ran out. It was getting to the point where I had around 60 kill and hadn't even moved past the starting room yet.

Just sayin', this is my dream scenario as a Paris user.

I would LOVE to have a seemingly endless horde of enemies, and I've found that the lighter my quiver, the wider my grin.

Running out of ammo before running out of targets is my favorite thing in almost any shooter.

You may not get great rewards from such a situation, but in my opinion there is no better way to farm Fun.

[Imbaland]

Just sayin', this is my dream scenario as a Paris user.

I would LOVE to have a seemingly endless horde of enemies, and I've found that the lighter my quiver, the wider my grin.

Running out of ammo before running out of targets is my favorite thing in almost any shooter.

You may not get great rewards from such a situation, but in my opinion there is no better way to farm Fun.

Its definitely entertaining, and it ultimately culminated in me being very low on ammo, energy, and health, in a very big room with a lot of scary guys trying to kill me, though I ultimately escaped through some sneaky manoeuvres and lucky sequences of events. It was all very exciting to be sure.

But that's something I expect from the hard, end game missions. This mission wasn't very hard, and was the perfect level for me. Its just that the snipetron was ill suited to what I was being forced to do. It was fun, but I need to progress in the game as well.

Oh, and this mission took like half an hour, which was way too long I think.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Imbaland

[Shion963]

As the players move, the game spawns more enemies, with a higher density in in the direction of the objective and in the direction of player movement, acting as a subtle hint to players.

[...]

Similarly the game paces these spawns by judging how the players are coping with the enemies they’re fighting. The game will keep ramping up agent spawns until there’s a lot of dead agent and players have taken damage. Once it recognises that the players have been properly tried, it’ll slow the spawns down again, giving the players a chance to mop up and then heal up.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/26/gdc-2013-the-ai-tricks-behind-xcom-assassins-creed-3-and-warframe/

You moved away from objective, which counts as moving farther away from the objective so you'll need to deal with increased amount of spawnable rooms instead. And I guess you didn't take any damage while killing all those enemies so AI keeps spawning more.

[-GG-Sinevultu]

I think the problem is not that (game rewards more rushing than do all), but that the whole "stealth" mechanic which doesn't work smartly; you can go quicker by just roflstomping enemies than with some "stealth" kill followed by massive enemy rushing at your location (or firing at you even in invisible, like with Shade's ghost on).

just an example: if i cast silence with banshee and kill an enemy with Paris all fine, if i go with pistol maybe it works and the enemy don't spot me but usually after the first, maybe the second, enemy they notice me immediately, even with Paris and silence on, so at end doesn't matter how much stealty you are, you will be spotted in any case :).

if the stealth mechanic would work and enemies would be more smart and "human" and less like mindless piranhas, for sure it would be more convenient to go slow, do all and maybe skip some fight with stealth or take key location through stealth actions, atm is mroe convenient to nuke them and move to next map.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Clownsanity

[calgon]

Just sayin', this is my dream scenario as a Paris user.

I would LOVE to have a seemingly endless horde of enemies, and I've found that the lighter my quiver, the wider my grin.

Running out of ammo before running out of targets is my favorite thing in almost any shooter.

You may not get great rewards from such a situation, but in my opinion there is no better way to farm Fun.

Like LunarWind already said, this would describe a perfect situation for me. Also, much fun and excitement is granted that way, keeping the pace of the game high.

My opinion would be, that your playstyle with the a sniperrifle "is a mechanic from yesteryear". The snipetron is a niche gun, which fullfilles some supportroles, but at first; it fullfilles the needs of those 360noscope kids. Yes, it has its good sides, but mostly in a group, or with a very brutal sidearm/meleewep.

I mean, really, what do you expect if your going up against a horde of enemies with a semi-automatic "boltaction" sniperrifle, staying there in one corner? Of course you gonna get overwhelmed. Wait, what, you only wanted to kill em all? Well, sorry, seems like it wasnt extermination then.

Its definitely entertaining, and it ultimately culminated in me being very low on ammo, energy, and health, in a very big room with a lot of scary guys trying to kill me, though I ultimately escaped through some sneaky manoeuvres and lucky sequences of events. It was all very exciting to be sure.

But that's something I expect from the hard, end game missions. This mission wasn't very hard, and was the perfect level for me. Its just that the snipetron was ill suited to what I was being forced to do. It was fun, but I need to progress in the game as well.

Oh, and this mission took like half an hour, which was way too long I think.

Its just that the snipetron was ill suited to what I was being forced to do.

Exactly, what would you expect? The enemies thinking, oh, dear, hes using snipertron, lets act to his advantage and line up 100m infront of him?

Of course should a game like this punish you for making bad decisions.

But I understand your point of "rushing" beeing too easy. I would welcome more difficult parcour-passages, more enemies, more safety-systems which are trying to kill you, to make it a more interesting run, if your getting forced into it.

And, sorry Imbaland, if my sarcasm was a bit too harsh :/ ..

[RainDreamer]

I wouldn't call that rushing. I call that "get the hell outta there before you get overrunned". I like putting arrows to grineers' heads like anyone else, but when I see the situation is getting out of hand, the best tactical decision I can make is to run the hell out of there.

Tennos are always out numbered in all situations. They can be as powerful as 100 or even 1000 normal enemies, but sometimes there are even more enemies than that, and it is better to run in those cases. Understand that you are there for an objective, not killing everything in sight (unless that is your objecive).

Rushing can only be applicable to team play, where players rush ahead without care for team mates. That is bad.

[Elhazzared]

You are not being punished for not rushing, you are being punished for having a bad selection of equipment. Let me guess, you brought a lex with your sniper? If so that's really smart, bring a sniper to complement a sniper. You got to use your head, if you have a sniper, the you should have an alternative weapon with a high rate of fire to murder anything that comes close quickly enough. When I bring my paris along, you can be sure that my pistols are AFuris. When I bring a rifle like say a braton, I bring my lex along. It's really easy to not have such problems. If anything it's a harder choice if you bring a shotgun cause then you think. Shotgun has a minimal amount of crowd control at short distance, however the clip is so small that you will not last long long again hordes before reloading. So do you bring a lex along or AFuris? Tougher choice though possibly the lex if you cna deal well with the small clip.

I don't rush missions, I kill everything in sight but the enemy spawns as you move from area to area. Killing more enemies is more rewarding as you gain more money, more mats and more mods. Again you just have to make a good weapon selection.

[allias]

wath you think of mi combo : strum / aklato !

Edited April 8, 2013 by allias

[Imbaland]

My opinion would be, that your playstyle with the a sniperrifle "is a mechanic from yesteryear". The snipetron is a niche gun, which fullfilles some supportroles, but at first; it fullfilles the needs of those 360noscope kids. Yes, it has its good sides, but mostly in a group, or with a very brutal sidearm/meleewep.

Even if the kind of 360 no scope COD kid play was possible in the cramped environments and with the overly high magnification, it would be hard to argue that it would differ that much from the mindless Quake style "hold W and Mouse 1".

[calgon]

mindless Quake style "hold W and Mouse 1".

Really? I think were not talking about the same Quake here ..

Anyway, seems like this discussion does not bear any fruits.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calgon

[Hammerspace]

http://www.pcgamer.c...3-and-warframe/

You moved away from objective, which counts as moving farther away from the objective so you'll need to deal with increased amount of spawnable rooms instead. And I guess you didn't take any damage while killing all those enemies so AI keeps spawning more.

Interesting article. Thanks for linking it.