Hit Reactions/stun Locking

[Socinus]

I've noticed a problem as I've gotten into higher missions and with some of the laser doors.

 

Warframes have seemingly very exaggerated hit reaction animations that don't allow you to move when you've been hit but still allow you to be hit. I've found myself more than once get hit by an enemy, stumble, hit again, stumble, hit again, repeat ad mortum. Essentially, enemies are stun locking you. I've noticed this most frequently with Infected.

 

This also happens with the laser door guards. After being pushed into a laser door by an enemy, I'll fall prone in the doorway and the lasers will deactivate for a moment. Unfortunately I cant move so I cant get out of the way and by the time I'm on my feet again, the lasers have reactivated and I'm hit by them and knocked down again, repeat ad mortum.

 

It's frustrating when there's NOTHING you can do to break out of this kind of stun locking.

[drunkpunk222]

Ancients hit more frequently i cant avoid disruptor attack anymore, they steal my shield and mana always, and move faster when freezed and they stun lock, cant stand up to move or do anything, everything except stunlocking is fine.

[Jaronite]

Put 3-4 chargers together and there goes a revive.

[goozilla]

You do realize you guys have a melee right? As long as you're not using fangs, you have innate resistance to flinching when attacking.

[AsianJoyKiller]

You do realize you guys have a melee right? As long as you're not using fangs, you have innate resistance to flinching when attacking.

Except with the sheer number of stuns/staggers being thrown at you from the various Infested swarms, you can't resist it all.

Also important to note, and something you conveniently ignore, is the fact that slower melee weapons leave larger opening for you to be stunned in.

[Elhazzared]

More to the point, climb to a box, kill them at distance, kite them. You have ways to avoid stunlocking, you have many wys to avoid this problem, especially the box climbing.

[Guest]

More to the point, climb to a box, kill them at distance, kite them. You have ways to avoid stunlocking, you have many wys to avoid this problem, especially the box climbing.

box climber since home alone on the NES

Edited April 15, 2013 by Guest

[Varil]

The thing that bothers me about knockdowns is that the Tenno are so sluggish about standing up. They're robot space ninjas, let us jump, roll, or attack to quickly return to standing position from prone after the initial knockdown stun.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

The thing that bothers me about knockdowns is that the Tenno are so sluggish about standing up. They're robot space ninjas, let us jump, roll, or attack to quickly return to standing position from prone after the initial knockdown stun.

This is one of the first things I noticed in the game, when I got knocked over by one of the Grineer shield guys.  I'm a space ninja in powered armor, why does it take two full seconds to get back on my feet?  This isn't as much of a problem anymore given how much shielding and armour I have on my Frost, but it's very irritating to new players.  Perhaps knocking a chunk out of the time they spend lying on their back - cutting to the 'getting back up' animation more quickly?

[boosh1]

I've noticed this too. While it's great that you get stunned and it teaches you to not just melee everything and be a bit more careful about it. But the fact that you can get completely stun locked is painful to say the least. For characters that are so amazingly agile in every aspect they seem to turn into slow bricks when knocked over, so I think they should get up faster than they do, not too fast obviously but they are way too slow at it right now. In fact they should be able to roll in a direction you point while they get up rather than just getting up on the spot, that might avoid some stun locking. 

[goozilla]

Except with the sheer number of stuns/staggers being thrown at you from the various Infested swarms, you can't resist it all.

Also important to note, and something you conveniently ignore, is the fact that slower melee weapons leave larger opening for you to be stunned in.

Chargers stun once in a shy moon. Runners will stun regardless, UNLESS you autoattack with a 2hander. Skills have invincibility frames that are usable if you spam them while getting up.

 

I'm not seeing the problem, aside from grineer rollers and no roll on knockdown.

[Xriborg]

I dunno about you, but I have a problem with the solution to stunlock being "spam skills for i-frames". We should have a better counter than that.

 

The difficulty is a tangled mess right now, and there are quite a few issues contribuiting to it. Our shields are way too huge, forcing the enemy to use cheap tactics like stuns, zergs, and insane number damage to pose any real threat. There are too many random factors tipping the balance of difficulty in one way or another, such as spawn rates, frozen missions reducing shields, additional or changed objectives, and more. However, the problem that is the most obvious and frustrating one, is attacks with no reasonable defense. Some examples include:

 

-The grineer that teleport you. There is absolutely no defense against this, and this is the biggest offender in my mind. (it just doesn't come up as often as stuns)

 

-Laser gates. These are fine when soloing, but we have no control over when our allies might be spotted by the camera. Particularly unlucky timing can get you hit (or killed when retreating).

 

-And stuns. Stuns can result in a slap on the wrist, or getting chain stunned to an instant death, depending on the situation. Yes, you can play without getting stunned, but the precautions you have to take to avoid being stunned force you into a very specific playstyle that a lot of people will not find fun. It would be like trying to get through a level without getting shot. Unless you play with an incredibly conservative style (good luck doing that online), it's just not gonna happen. Stuns are part fo the game, and if they're going to be here to stay, we need a way of dealing with them.

 

My suggestion would be to implement a recovery button. Hit it as you fly through the air, you flip back on your feet. Land on your butt, you roll back up. Hit it slow, you get the drunken stagger to your feet we have now. The speed of your recovery is dependant on how quickly you can hit the recovery button, turning the hopelessness of a stun into a skill based reflex test.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Chargers stun once in a shy moon. Runners will stun regardless, UNLESS you autoattack with a 2hander. Skills have invincibility frames that are usable if you spam them while getting up.

I'm not seeing the problem, aside from grineer rollers and no roll on knockdown.

You've ignored a few important details in order to downplay the situation.

- The horde nature of Infested means Chargers tend to travel in packs, which means there's multiple of them to stagger you, greatly reducing the drawback of not stunning as often.

- They're fast, which means they can catch up to you and stagger and body block you, allowing other Infested to catch up and continue the stunlocking.

- Using skills is has the prerequisites of having a skill that can deal with a horde, and having the power to use that skill, neither of which are givens.

The main problem is, the one you're not seeing is probably because you're looking at my post as something along the lines of "stuns make the infested too hard", which is the wrong line of thought, but common among those who don't really try to think beyond the surface. The problem is that, while it's not particularly difficult to counter Infested, is isn't fun to be in constant retreat, or just sit on top of a box and shoot fish in a barrel.

[Varil]

Good point about the teleporting guys. Speaking of which, there was a post earlier about the potential of Loki's swap for griefing, but I bet both "swap" problems can be solved pretty easily by turning the skill into a projectile instead of just point-and-click.

 

I agree with the laser gates. I've run into quite a few "gotcha" gates because somebody triggered a camera in the room behind me or ahead of me. Maybe it'd be better if cameras only affected gates attached to the room the camera is in. Plus, maybe the gates could have a visual "warm up" of a second or two, so if you're following an ally who triggers a camera in the next room, you have a moment to decide if you can get through in time.

[mhd995]

Aye, this needs fixing. Even a couple of shockwave MOAs can keep me on the floor for a good 10 seconds.

 

Also, +1 on the visual warmup of the laser doors.

Edited April 15, 2013 by mhd995

[HvcTerr]

My suggestion would be to implement a recovery button. Hit it as you fly through the air, you flip back on your feet. Land on your butt, you roll back up. Hit it slow, you get the drunken stagger to your feet we have now. The speed of your recovery is dependant on how quickly you can hit the recovery button, turning the hopelessness of a stun into a skill based reflex test.

 

I nominate the block-key. Not only is it seldom-used, but it makes a certain kind of sense because it's already involved with defending from attacks.

Edited April 16, 2013 by HvcTerr

[Socinus]

You do realize you guys have a melee right? As long as you're not using fangs, you have innate resistance to flinching when attacking.

It's more a question of "I've already been hit and before I can move again, I'm hit again and fall down again."

 

Someone brought up Shockwave Moas and they're a perfect example. I've spent as long as 20 seconds basically being bounced around by them because before I'm fully on my feet from the first hit, another one has discharged and you get hit again. There's no way to avoid this once it starts.