Short End Of The Sword.

[Nogarde]

So I notice that a max rank Serration (flat % damage increase for rifles) caps at 165% increase. I've also noticed a fully ranked Hornet strike (flat % damage increase for pistols) gives a 220% increase. 

Noting both of those, why is pressure Point (flat % damage increase for melee weapons) cap at a mere 42%? 

 

On that note here are the 3 different types of elemental damage.

Molten Impact (melee fire damage) 90%

 

North Wind (melee Ice damage) 60%

 

Shocking touch (melee Electric damage) 30% 

 

why are they so different? especially since they all take up the same amount of mod capacity (11)

 

meanwhile...

 

Rifles

 

 

Hellfire  90% (11 mod Cap)

 

Cryo Rounds 90% (9 mod Cap!)

 

Stormbringer 90% (11 mod Cap)

 

 

just seems to me based on numbers that those who favor melee get jibbed quite alot despite melee being seen as a more high risk high reward form of play in a game like this.

 

if a DE would care to elaborate I would appreciate it.

[LunarWind]

Bump for good numbers which warrant attention.

[EagleRise]

yea... Melee is really fun, nothing beats the felling of slicing your enemies and send them flying.

but as its is now, the only time its worth using is when your out of bullets for all of your guns.

[Ryoken]

This is pretty important.  I would like to see the numbers leveled out somewhat, or at least have a solid explanation to why they are not.

[Nogarde]

bump

[Sealgaire]

Melee is totally outclassed by guns at the moment, which I really don't get as it's a far riskier way to kill enemies. The only real way I can think of addressing it is lowering the damage of guns across the board. My Aklatos kill Grineer in Ceres in one or two shots. A maxed HEK kills enemies instantly. My heat sword, with Fury and all damage mods that exist completely maxed on it takes 3 or 4 swings, at a much lower fire rate, while having to run to the enemy. I specced my Excalibur for melee with maxed sprint speed and high stamina total/regen mods and it's still 10 times faster for him to just blow enemies away with guns, at much lower risk. I wish that was an exaggeration.

 

There's just literally no reason to use melee over guns at the moment and it really bums me out, as it's my preferred style of play.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sealgaire

[Kotoso]

I think a good change for melee would be:

 

-raising Pressure point to ~100% at max rank, give or take 30% for balancing

-changing Killing Blow (charge damage) to "Special Attack Damage" (and lowering the crazy high value, because of the next point)

-making slide attacks, plunge attacks, charge attacks, wallrun attacks, and stealth attacks scale off of normal damage + special attack damage + elemental damage. Right now the damage formulas are all over the place for these attacks.

[EagleRise]

we need the warframe melee mods back!

[Nogarde]

I think a good change for melee would be:

 

-raising Pressure point to ~100% at max rank, give or take 30% for balancing

-changing Killing Blow (charge damage) to "Special Attack Damage" (and lowering the crazy high value, because of the next point)

-making slide attacks, plunge attacks, charge attacks, wallrun attacks, and stealth attacks scale off of normal damage + special attack damage + elemental damage. Right now the damage formulas are all over the place for these attacks.

I love the idea of having mods that effect sliding attacks and wall running, but maybe keep it seperate from charge attacks? you could call it, Trick Slash gives something like 20/40/60/80/100% icrease to wallrun/sliding/jump attack damage. would certainly promote more flashy play XD

[Nogarde]

would still like some kind of info/reasoning for those numbers from a DE please

[Kotoso]

I love the idea of having mods that effect sliding attacks and wall running, but maybe keep it seperate from charge attacks? you could call it, Trick Slash gives something like 20/40/60/80/100% icrease to wallrun/sliding/jump attack damage. would certainly promote more flashy play XD

I like this better actually, more diversity in mods is good.

[Rezzident]

Melee is totally outclassed by guns at the moment, which I really don't get as it's a far riskier way to kill enemies. The only real way I can think of addressing it is lowering the damage of guns across the board. My Aklatos kill Grineer in Ceres in one or two shots. A maxed HEK kills enemies instantly. My heat sword, with Fury and all damage mods that exist completely maxed on it takes 3 or 4 swings, at a much lower fire rate, while having to run to the enemy. I specced my Excalibur for melee with maxed sprint speed and high stamina total/regen mods and it's still 10 times faster for him to just blow enemies away with guns, at much lower risk. I wish that was an exaggeration.

 

There's just literally no reason to use melee over guns at the moment and it really bums me out, as it's my preferred style of play.

You just gave yourself a reason at the end of your last sentence ;P If it's your preferred style of play then use your melee more that's what I do.  I just switch weapons instead of reloading a lot because it feels smooth then just slice up the leftovers when my clip runs dry.  Lot's of fun cutting/weapon switchin action that way, doesn't matter to me much even if it may be slightly less effective than just blastin them with my primary, still usually do most of the damage and it feels so smooth/funner to me. 

Edited April 16, 2013 by Rezzident

[Nogarde]

You just gave yourself a reason at the end of your last sentence ;P If it's your preferred style of play then use your melee more that's what I do.  I just switch weapons instead of reloading a lot because it feels smooth then just slice up the leftovers when my clip runs dry.  Lot's of fun cutting/weapon switchin action that way, doesn't matter to me much even if it may be slightly less effective than just blastin them with my primary, still usually do most of the damage and it feels so smooth/funner to me. 

I can understand what your saying here completely I personally fell in love recently with my fang (fully ranked fury mod XD) but the point of this thread is more towards asking why are the people who prefer melee which in and of itself is more risky then gunplay, penalized by getting inferior mods?

[Nogarde]

bump

[EagleRise]

bump

 

your getting closer and closer to spam.

[Ferriwind]

Agreed! Make melee a viable alternative to gun play!

[IcarusNine]

I think different weapon classes having different affinities for elemental damage could make for interesting choices.  Melee weapons don't have ammunition, don't lose ammunition on +fire rate mods, don't reload, have a variety of attack types with varying bonuses, many have splash damage, and they can either do triple damage to infested or ignore armor.  They probably have a higher base crit rate as well.

 

That the mods are different for swords and weapons isn't a problem... Just so long as they account for reality.

 

 

Most weapons' normal attacks aren't really so strong that they justify Pressure Point being such a poor mod, at least as far as I know.  Contrast with Killing Blow, which is uncommon like Serration and Hornet Strike and reaches a similar +150% boost, but only needs to be upgraded 5 times instead of 10.

[Allajh]

I've never noticed a particular problem with melee and I tend to do close combat style as opposed to striking from a distance. 

 

Granted I haven't tried to melee in Pluto yet but I still one shot everything up to that point with the Gram or can stun lock with Zorens until someone else kills them or crits go off and fell them.

[Nogarde]

bump

[Rezzident]

I can understand what your saying here completely I personally fell in love recently with my fang (fully ranked fury mod XD) but the point of this thread is more towards asking why are the people who prefer melee which in and of itself is more risky then gunplay, penalized by getting inferior mods?

haha sorry I guess I did go off topic for a second on that guys last sentence, I guess I'm just trying to say even if they seem inferior or outclassed by guns to everyone else ive never had a problem just taking melee for what it is on its own terms and enjoying the hell out of it, strong or weak, seeing as a blade isn't the same as a projectile weapon (lol splitting realism logic hairs).  I guess since I can still slice up an army with my gram it just doesnt seem that weak to me XD orrr maybe I'm just a pushover who is willing to settle for what I can get.  Either way I really don't notice the inferior mods even at higher levels, as in my killing effectiveness, not the straight numbers i'm reading here.

[Sealgaire]

haha sorry I guess I did go off topic for a second on that guys last sentence, I guess I'm just trying to say even if they seem inferior or outclassed by guns to everyone else ive never had a problem just taking melee for what it is on its own terms and enjoying the hell out of it, strong or weak, seeing as a blade isn't the same as a projectile weapon (lol splitting realism logic hairs).  I guess since I can still slice up an army with my gram it just doesnt seem that weak to me XD orrr maybe I'm just a pushover who is willing to settle for what I can get.  Either way I really don't notice the inferior mods even at higher levels, as in my killing effectiveness, not the straight numbers i'm reading here.

 

Have you tried using melee weapons exclusively in systems like Ceres and Pluto? It's doable, but hilariously inferior when compared to guns. The goal should be to make melee a playstyle competitive with guns, not a handicap you apply to yourself for the sake of a little variety.

 

If the devs came out and said they intended melee weapons to play second fiddle to guns, I would shut up and go mope while whittling enemies down with my heat sword, but they've stated they want to balance as many playstyles as possible in the first livestream.

[blackraver]

I don't really want to see melee get buffed. This is a coop focused game and when your running a level with players who just sprint in and hack everything to death it's really no fun. You want to be able to solo kill everything with your sword, but it's a coop game, everything dies in no time when you have two or three teammates hacking away with you. Besides people are already crying that the game is too hard. Buffing melee to compare with guns would vindicate them (though I already feel they are right)

[Sealgaire]

I don't really want to see melee get buffed. This is a coop focused game and when your running a level with players who just sprint in and hack everything to death it's really no fun. You want to be able to solo kill everything with your sword, but it's a coop game, everything dies in no time when you have two or three teammates hacking away with you. Besides people are already crying that the game is too hard. Buffing melee to compare with guns would vindicate them (though I already feel they are right)

 

I can already solo everything effortlessly with guns, why shouldn't I be able to do the same with swords if I choose to specialize in it? Your example doesn't even really make sense anyway. If you're playing with decent players with well modded guns, everything will be dead before you can even reach melee distance. That's why I think the damage for guns should be lowered rather than melee buffed, the game is way too easy when using properly modded guns at the moment.

[austinrelis]

I can already solo everything effortlessly with guns, why shouldn't I be able to do the same with swords if I choose to specialize in it? Your example doesn't even really make sense anyway. If you're playing with decent players with well modded guns, everything will be dead before you can even reach melee distance. That's why I think the damage for guns should be lowered rather than melee buffed, the game is way too easy when using properly modded guns at the moment.

Aye, he speaks the truth.

[dzonatan]

I think the issue is simply the fact that melee feels like a complete lackluster in the game. For all the fancy shnancy melee stunts you can peform you are better of just keeping your distance and shooting untill your target is dead.