I Propose A Solution: Quitters/loot/failures/disconnecting.

[Onite]

This seems to be the hot topic of debate right now regarding the new patch change for loot drops. I thought of something that i feel is fair:

 

Missions should be able to have direction in 4 ways:

 

1:Abort/Desertion

2:Completion

3:Failure

4:Spot hold

 

 

1: If you choose to leave a mission, it counts as a mission abort, everything reverts to how it was before you entered the mission. Meaning you dont keep anything you gained from the mission, or lose anything you used during the mission, be it health packs or ammo boxes. This is useful against deserters and farmers who abuse. Its also useful if you're on a mission and you realize you're in way over your head and really regret doing the mission and honestly just want to wish it never happened.

 

[Edit]: Option B: Costs 500 credits to abandon. After 6 minutes it becomes free to abandon missions at no cost. This is to further dissuade deserters who quit after seeing lack of boss drops.

 

2: Completion- You actually finished the mission and got your bonuses and rewards as well as the loot you found during the mission. Simple.

 

3: Failure- You failed the mission but you still tried. You get no bonus and end credits but you still keep everything you earned up until you died.

 

4:Spot held- Lets say you got disconnected or something caused an interruption in your mission, the mission will stay open for 3 minutes if you want to return to your spot as long as its still warm, allowing you to attempt finishing the mission and keep your progress. If the timer runs out, you lose everything and the mission will reset, so when you try the same one again, it will start a brand new instance.

 

This to me, seems like the most fair proposal to everyone with little room for abuse. (some of the other threads are kind of ridiculous...)

Edited April 20, 2013 by Onite

[V101]

the new system is made to prevent rush, loot & quit, ppl heading to bosses, killing them, leaving, sometimes if they were host, and they left, the rest of the ppl couldnt loot, or if he was too far too, and alot more things

[SolluxCaptorTA]

I like the differentiation between failure and quitting. Hope DE sees this and agrees.

[Temporary]

4:Spot held- Lets say you got disconnected or something caused an interruption in your mission, the mission will stay open for 3 minutes if you want to return to your spot as long as its still warm, allowing you to attempt finishing the mission and keep your progress. If the timer runs out, you lose everything and the mission will reset, so when you try the same one again, it will start a brand new instance.

Can't believe I didn't think to mention this before considering that's what happens with League of Legends...

[neKroMancer]

I disagree with Failure.

 

You fail the mission, didn't make it to the extraction. Lying there, bleed to death - you shouldn't get anything from the mission.

 

Frankly, the last thing that we actually need to finally curb rusher/quitter is turning BP drop from boss into end-of-mission reward.  

[Onite]

I disagree with Failure.

 

You fail the mission, didn't make it to the extraction. Lying there, bleed to death - you shouldn't get anything from the mission.

 

Frankly, the last thing that we actually need to finally curb rusher/quitter is turning BP drop from boss into end-of-mission reward.  

Thats extremely harsh to those who go for challenges or try to complete things on their own relative level. It also punishes those players who struggle while playing solo. Considering how long some missions can get and how often something simple can completely destroy you, You should get something for your true investment into playing the game. Nomatter what. Your idea of "you get NOTHING. GOOD DAY SIR." dissuades people from ever taking a harder route which encourages more farming and easy paths, which ultimately make the game more boring and the game itself will lose returning interest even with new content patches to those who took a break from warframe because it was nothing but farming. It leaves a bitter taste in people's mouths and i'd rather not have this.

[Grinstone]

 

4:Spot held- Lets say you got disconnected or something caused an interruption in your mission, the mission will stay open for 3 minutes if you want to return to your spot as long as its still warm, allowing you to attempt finishing the mission and keep your progress. If the timer runs out, you lose everything and the mission will reset, so when you try the same one again, it will start a brand new instance.

Having some kind of safeguard against disconnects would be nice, since that's out of our hands. This sounds as good a suggestion as any, since if you can't make it back in three to five minutes it's likely that it's going to be a longer problem. Although I'd err on the side of caution and make it five minutes. Some routers / modems can take their own sweet time to reset - on the order of two minutes.

[Onite]

Having some kind of safeguard against disconnects would be nice, since that's out of our hands. This sounds as good a suggestion as any, since if you can't make it back in three to five minutes it's likely that it's going to be a longer problem. Although I'd err on the side of caution and make it five minutes. Some routers / modems can take their own sweet time to reset - on the order of two minutes.

But given how long missions are and that you may or may not have other players progressing without you, 3 minutes seemed good to me. And having over 5 minutes for a problem doesnt seem like something that should be occurring often. (At least i hope not!)

[Temporary]

I disagree with Failure.

 

You fail the mission, didn't make it to the extraction. Lying there, bleed to death - you shouldn't get anything from the mission.

 

Frankly, the last thing that we actually need to finally curb rusher/quitter is turning BP drop from boss into end-of-mission reward.  

Explain to me how the Tenno come back from death and you'll have your answer... are we genetically reconstructed, do we get teleported back to the ship, is an extraction team sent in to grab our corpse and if so are our bodies looted before they get there and if that was the case why do we recover our weapons? By trying to disprove his point you're complicating things ever further with more questions...

Yeah because forcing them to actually finish a mission instead of quitting 1/2 way through just to get a chance at a drop is a bad thing...

[confuseray]

Temp, I accidentally downvoted you, but I agree with you completely. If you want to rush through a level and do it in a fast, efficient, pacifistic manner, go ahead, but do that with your own friends or solo. Online you should play with everyone as a group.

[neKroMancer]

Thats extremely harsh to those who go for challenges or try to complete things on their own relative level. It also punishes those players who struggle while playing solo. Considering how long some missions can get and how often something simple can completely destroy you, You should get something for your true investment into playing the game. Nomatter what. Your idea of "you get NOTHING. GOOD DAY SIR." dissuades people from ever taking a harder route which encourages more farming and easy paths, which ultimately make the game more boring and the game itself will lose returning interest even with new content patches to those who took a break from warframe because it was nothing but farming. It leaves a bitter taste in people's mouths and i'd rather not have this.

 

Solo players should understand the risk of running alone. Even if you're dead while solo the mission, you get the experience on how to deal with things in a more careful manner.

 

Yes, it's 'NOTHING, GOOD DAY SIR' attitude that makes players get better. Leniency doesn't serve anything except at the beginning of the game. It doesn't improve how you play your game, it doesn't improve your tactic since you think 'DEAD? LOL, I got what I want already. IT DOESN"T MATTER'.

 

You want a win scenario even when you lose the game, that's unreasonable. 

[Temporary]

Temp, I accidentally downvoted you, but I agree with you completely. If you want to rush through a level and do it in a fast, efficient, pacifistic manner, go ahead, but do that with your own friends or solo. Online you should play with everyone as a group.

S'all good dude :P

[Onite]

Solo players should understand the risk of running alone. Even if you're dead while solo the mission, you get the experience on how to deal with things in a more careful manner.

 

Yes, it's 'NOTHING, GOOD DAY SIR' attitude that makes players get better. Leniency doesn't serve anything except at the beginning of the game. It doesn't improve how you play your game, it doesn't improve your tactic since you think 'DEAD? LOL, I got what I want already. IT DOESN"T MATTER'.

 

You want a win scenario even when you lose the game, that's unreasonable. 

I would only agree with you if we were actually talking about important real life things like driving or raising a child. The stick over the carrot in a PVE videogame is something terrible. Theres a carrot at the end as a bonus for money. But you still had to work to get those mods and experience from defeating enemies. You should really play monster hunter and then get back to me about leniency. In that game you can spend upwards of an hour killing a single monster and then die to really stupid things and get absolutely nothing for 45 minutes of your time. The feeling is absolutely terrible and makes alot of people really trash the game. I dont expect everything on a silver platter with no challenge but theres such thing as a middle ground. To you, you think its all or nothing, with no something inbetween. That is bad for how long levels can last in the game. But you're making me repeat myself because you're ignoring what points i'm bringing forth.

[xenapan]

I disagree with Failure.

 

You fail the mission, didn't make it to the extraction. Lying there, bleed to death - you shouldn't get anything from the mission.

 

Frankly, the last thing that we actually need to finally curb rusher/quitter is turning BP drop from boss into end-of-mission reward.  

In that case lets make it even more hardcore! Lying there, bleeding to death you lose all your mods, your frame is wrecked, your weapons destroyed. Sure hope you have a spare frame and set of weapons!

 

Or is that not far enough?

 

Since warframes are exoskeletons you find yourself resurrected in one of those cloning vats ala BSG. now you have to solo fight/stealth your way through the enemy ship that took over your extraction vessel (which also coincidentally also contains all your remaining weapons and warframes) If you fail your account gets deleted. The end.

 

There are plenty of things you "shouldn't" get but taking it to its logical conclusion makes for a pretty hardcore game that most people would give up very quickly on.

[Tenebraex]

With failure you need to take into consideration defense missions. The risk/reward mentality is intentional and changing that back would be counterproductive. Also, it might be possible for rushers to exploit failure deaths in a manner likened to aborting. Strict rules would need to be implemented for what constitutes genuine, rewardable failure. Keeping XP is good, mods... maybe in some cases, special materials; no. I like the idea of place-holding but unlike League of Legends there are no dedicated servers and assuring your spot in someone else's hosted game would probably be difficult. It might work for solo play if there was an option to resume your mission in progress, though.

[Worira]

the new system is made to prevent rush, loot & quit, ppl heading to bosses, killing them, leaving, sometimes if they were host, and they left, the rest of the ppl couldnt loot, or if he was too far too, and alot more things

 

At which it fails miserably. There's no incentive for a rusher not to quit after killing the boss, except the three times they actually drop a relevant blueprint.

[neKroMancer]

I would only agree with you if we were actually talking about important real life things like driving or raising a child. The stick over the carrot in a PVE videogame is something terrible. Theres a carrot at the end as a bonus for money. But you still had to work to get those mods and experience from defeating enemies. You should really play monster hunter and then get back to me about leniency. In that game you can spend upwards of an hour killing a single monster and then die to really stupid things and get absolutely nothing for 45 minutes of your time. The feeling is absolutely terrible and makes alot of people really trash the game. I dont expect everything on a silver platter with no challenge but theres such thing as a middle ground. To you, you think its all or nothing, with no something inbetween. That is bad for how long levels can last in the game. But you're making me repeat myself because you're ignoring what points i'm bringing forth.

 

I did not ignore your point, I denied it completely. A complete disagreement, that's what it was.

 

you still didn't show me why should player keep his loot when he fail the mission. Satisfaction that you can win with a programming loophole?

 

Let me give you an example : A player beats Lech Krill, got the BP he wants. He then proceed to the exit and suicide by Grineer grunt gunfire - How is that different from what we had previously? Just a bit more effort compared to open the menu and press abort.

 

In that case lets make it even more hardcore! Lying there, bleeding to death you lose all your mods, your frame is wrecked, your weapons destroyed. Sure hope you have a spare frame and set of weapons!

 

Or is that not far enough?

 

Since warframes are exoskeletons you find yourself resurrected in one of those cloning vats ala BSG. now you have to solo fight/stealth your way through the enemy ship that took over your extraction vessel (which also coincidentally also contains all your remaining weapons and warframes) If you fail your account gets deleted. The end.

 

There are plenty of things you "shouldn't" get but taking it to its logical conclusion makes for a pretty hardcore game that most people would give up very quickly on.

 

NBSP. I didn't propose that. I'm perfectly resonable with this argument. If you want that, go ahead. 

[Grinstone]

But given how long missions are and that you may or may not have other players progressing without you, 3 minutes seemed good to me. And having over 5 minutes for a problem doesnt seem like something that should be occurring often. (At least i hope not!)

Yeah, the trick is balancing it between players not suffering for bad luck with their connection and not blocking a slot with a group for an entire mission. Perhaps the most elegant solution is to allow five minutes for solo / private games and three minutes for online games. Maybe even make it default to your proposed failure scenario if the group finishes the mission before you can rejoin: you don't get the bonus but you keep what you'd received until the disconnect.

 

As you said, these are problems people are hopefully not encountering often so it may not be something that really needs to be addressed. Certainly there are other aspects of the game I'd prefer to see addressed first.

[Onite]

Let me give you an example : A player beats Lech Krill, got the BP he wants. He then proceed to the exit and suicide by Grineer grunt gunfire - How is that different from what we had previously? Just a bit more effort compared to open the menu and press abort.

 

Because its still making them work even harder to exploit than previously without punishing people who are legitimately playing the game. You can't create a perfect game where 100% of all possible exploitations and loopholes are completely sewn shut, even then, exploitation becomes a nitpicking perspective that falls into opinion. You cant make a single "what if" the entire fulcrum point of which an entire idea becomes garbage.

 

That being said, your purview is so closed minded that its impossible to make a valid point without you saying "i'm right 100% and you're wrong 100% and i didnt even have to understand your point of view to tell you that."

Essentially you're being the equivalent of a 12 year old in a make believe fight that goes "WELL I PUT UP A FORCEFIELD THAT CANT BREAK."

 

You did the exact same thing in one of my other thread regarding the scaling of credits (which they actually somewhat added to the game) to the point where you started stepping out of the boundaries of logical sense until you were just arguing for the hell of it. Just stop, dude.

[Onite]

With failure you need to take into consideration defense missions. The risk/reward mentality is intentional and changing that back would be counterproductive. Also, it might be possible for rushers to exploit failure deaths in a manner likened to aborting. Strict rules would need to be implemented for what constitutes genuine, rewardable failure. Keeping XP is good, mods... maybe in some cases, special materials; no. I like the idea of place-holding but unlike League of Legends there are no dedicated servers and assuring your spot in someone else's hosted game would probably be difficult. It might work for solo play if there was an option to resume your mission in progress, though.

Wouldnt matter online, they would have to sit and wait for the rest of the party, or they could abandon and get nothing, ultimately wasting their time.

And if they solo, they're still having to do more work to solo a boss.

[Evilpillows]

Let me give you an example : A player beats Lech Krill, got the BP he wants. He then proceed to the exit and suicide by Grineer grunt gunfire - How is that different from what we had previously? Just a bit more effort compared to open the menu and press abort.

A person farming for a blueprint only has to actually finish the mission three times, for each of the parts they need. If they don't get what they want, they'll simply abort, since they're not losing anything they care about or need. It's not stopping them from exploiting anything.

[neKroMancer]

Because its still making them work even harder to exploit than previously without punishing people who are legitimately playing the game. You can't create a perfect game where 100% of all possible exploitations and loopholes are completely sewn shut, even then, exploitation becomes a nitpicking perspective that falls into opinion. You cant make a single "what if" the entire fulcrum point of which an entire idea becomes garbage.

 

That being said, your purview is so closed minded that its impossible to make a valid point without you saying "i'm right 100% and you're wrong 100% and i didnt even have to understand your point of view to tell you that."

Essentially you're being the equivalent of a 12 year old in a make believe fight that goes "WELL I PUT UP A FORCEFIELD THAT CANT BREAK."

 

You did the exact same thing in one of my other thread regarding the scaling of credits (which they actually somewhat added to the game) to the point where you started stepping out of the boundaries of logical sense until you were just arguing for the hell of it. Just stop, dude.

 

Don't make me mention your last thread where you want to exploit infinite spawn for credit.

 

You just propose another loophole to exploit, nothing more. And you can't even properly defend it.

[PaperAlien]

I disagree with Failure.

 

You fail the mission, didn't make it to the extraction. Lying there, bleed to death - you shouldn't get anything from the mission.

 

What is the point of that? Adding weight to failure? Realism? Either way, the logical conclusion of these two intentions is to make it so you lose everything for mission failure, warframe, weapons and mods. Serious and realistic. Is that what you want?

 

Let me give you an example : A player beats Lech Krill, got the BP he wants. He then proceed to the exit and suicide by Grineer grunt gunfire - How is that different from what we had previously? Just a bit more effort compared to open the menu and press abort.

It's different because he'll be forced to spectate his teammates finish the rest of the level. The only situations where it still works would be if his team also committed suicide, but that already means they'll have reached the boss and picked up the drops/lack thereof, so there isn't a problem anyway. The other situation is if the quitter is playing solo, in which case there's also no problem because he has no teammates to leave behind.

 

Then there's the entire fiasco about Endless Defense and being forced to extract early because peer pressure and everyone's scared of instantly losing 20+ mods. There are many alternatives to this draconian system, and all of them are better.

[neKroMancer]

What is the point of that? Adding weight to failure? Realism? Either way, the logical conclusion of these two intentions is to make it so you lose everything for mission failure, warframe, weapons and mods. Serious and realistic. Is that what you want?

It's different because he'll be forced to spectate his teammates finish the rest of the level. The only situations where it still works would be if his team also committed suicide, but that already means they'll have reached the boss and picked up the drops/lack thereof, so there isn't a problem anyway. The other situation is if the quitter is playing solo, in which case there's also no problem because he has no teammates to leave behind.

 

Then there's the entire fiasco about Endless Defense and being forced to extract early because peer pressure and everyone's scared of instantly losing 20+ mods. There are many alternatives to this draconian system, and all of them are better.

 

Adding weight to decision making, more likely. Should I play this mission which is beyond my capability? Should I find a team to help me in case of I got downed?

 

Should we continue for more 5 waves with chance of better/more loots? Is my team competent enough for it?

 

Basically, decision making that make or break the mission. Feel too stressful for this?

[KaikelX]

On the subject of how you keep playing the game if you die, well, you get rescued. The way I see it, you just become unable to continue fighting once you run out of health. Rather than short-sightedly just finishing you off, the Grineer/Corpus/maybe Infested take you prisoner. They want to interrogate you to find out information about the Tenno, what they can do, what resources they have, where their bases and hq are, and so on.

 

Lotus of course, doesn't want that. So she sends in Tenno to rescue you. Hence, the rescue mission.