Ash Warframe - Suggestions

[Ganwybas]

Hi everyone!

I started this topics because  i really long played ash,and now i have 8 warframe gears.

And seems The Ash warframe has a very  big problems in his style of playing.

 

His description is - stealth based waframe,who can kill effectivly with no sound.

 

So in game Ash cant use this style Why? 

 

1) Ash die very quickly,and we dont have abilities to prevent this. (2 ability dont give you enough advantage in cross fire)

2) Ash not a stealth warframe at all. (2,3 useless  ability with silent style)

3) Ash haven't effective AOE skill's at all,(existing 4 ability,is to much cost,and very slow kill enemies compare to other warframes)  

4) Ash with all things,can't help his team. He useless.

 

Compare with other warfarme Ash it self is nothing,sad but true.

 

 

 

 So what we have? Nice look warframe with non effective skills.He can something only because of  weapons power and player skill.

 

This is not right.

 

Ash now its fast reactioned ,deadly armed warframe. He tried to survive and find his place in battle.

So i suggest to redone existing Ash skills.

 

 

1) skill suriken ,we all know what this skill will be replaced. So i suggest that. Powerfull strike has ignore armor, deals 1000 damage for single target,and double damage if Ash attack in the back. If  use it break invisibility. (25en)

2) skill  +add instant animation use with non delays,and abilities use it then Ash move or run,with non pause  +increase invisible time to 20 seconds - remove smoke stun effect,its must be silent skill with no attraction. (30en)

3)skill teleport. +add invisibility in use for 10 seconds,and teleport you for enemies back. +if press 3 skill with non target in cross,it teleport you to random  enemies at range,with no delays to next if you press button skill again. (25en)

4) blade storm, animation - press 4 skill button -Ash fast take cool attack pose ,disappears,player camera not move,12 enemies in range die instantly (or not)  with sound effect of multiple strike and weapon hit effect. Then Ash get visible and go back to player control.

 

 

So if do this?what we have? Strong stealth based Warframe. Very effective for single strong enemies.

Non weak at all,and really can play at stealth style. I apologize in advance for my broken English I hope you'll understand what I wrote =)

[mmSNAKE]

So you are suggesting to create a frame that is both good in a fight (not weak), can deal insane amount of damage to multiple targets and single target. Can get critical hits on demand with TWO different abilities.

 

Problem with this is. You are trying to make one frame do too much (with parameters that are quite over powered). Loki has the more utility side of the stealth spectrum and is more suited for pure stealth runs (as of now with the current stealth gameplay).Ash however is NOT weak, he is anything but weak. His health pool is rather large and he has an ability that lets him get away from problems or cause instant crits on attack. That alone is enough to make him a flexible class. Remember stealth does not have to be pure "alert" type. Think TF2's spy. That's stealth gameplay too, and that is what Ash is supposed to accomplish. His current teleport may need few tweaks and his bladestorm may or may not need some changes. His first ability is an outstanding damage ability. You can repeatedly chuck them for 900 some damage or so on head shots. That is quite nice when you are on a reload and need to get an ancient off you.

[Ganwybas]

So you are suggesting to create a frame that is both good in a fight (not weak), can deal insane amount of damage to multiple targets and single target. Can get critical hits on demand with TWO different abilities.

 

Problem with this is. You are trying to make one frame do too much (with parameters that are quite over powered). Loki has the more utility side of the stealth spectrum and is more suited for pure stealth runs (as of now with the current stealth gameplay).Ash however is NOT weak, he is anything but weak. His health pool is rather large and he has an ability that lets him get away from problems or cause instant crits on attack. That alone is enough to make him a flexible class. Remember stealth does not have to be pure "alert" type. Think TF2's spy. That's stealth gameplay too, and that is what Ash is supposed to accomplish. His current teleport may need few tweaks and his bladestorm may or may not need some changes. His first ability is an outstanding damage ability. You can repeatedly chuck them for 900 some damage or so on head shots. That is quite nice when you are on a reload and need to get an ancient off you.

 

 

What so scary about crit strike?  In that time what ash need to kill enemies, with His scary  TWO skill with cris effect ,

Ex for example use 2 time slash and dash mod,and kill hord of enemies,with Flow and efficient mods, phino  just can -on godmode.

Ember just burn tonns of enemies,Nyx can controll all the battlefield,Alone! 

 

Its not overpowered,because its all cant't be use on a multiple target,energy will be dont enoth for imbalance action.

ANd i ask change only this parametrs,what i say about,not damage of 4 skill,not other existing.

Man dont say about accuracy of 1 ability)) ist real poor )) headshoot? sory man,its real hard to do and not worth it at all.

 

In all view,in almost all opinion, Ash now is nothing.

[Kobalt]

The crit is double melee damage and if you build properly far more than that in red crits. Smokescreen is not just a damage augmenting tool, it is also 7 seconds [9 with continuity] of enemies not firing at you period! If you are silly enough to use it in a bad position in a group situation then that is your fault. When you are soloing it pretty much equated to invulnerability for the duration. In that time I can easily drop as many people as the slash dash will and it lasts a whole 7-9 seconds instead of less than 2.

 

If you have a shade sentinel, teleport already does exactly what you suggested it do!

 

For the record I land crit Shuriken consistently, it did take a lot of practice...Still it have the best scaling of any 1 ability in the game when used properly! I do upwards of 900 damage end game where everything else does far less.

 

I could see Ash's Bladestorm being faster and/or having a better animation, but it is fine as is.

 

Ash is one of the better soloing frames in the game, it does it's job properly and out performs a lot of other frames if used with skill. The buffs you suggested are simply too much. Too powerful! The only things ash need is to have Teleport move to the backs of enemies and a new skill for 1 once throwing daggers come out!

[eXileris]

Ash plays like a pseudo melee caster at best. also ash 1 shoulda been like nyx 2 but eh oh well.
They are going to change the 1 though because its the most useless

[Ganwybas]

Man what really Ash can do,what makes him a melee caster rogue?

 

teleport with 3 second delay with animation? smoke skill with stop animation on 2 seconds?

 non accurate suriken? 

 

ash must move fast!  do all things  fast! besauce he lack AOE instant damage skill,all what he have 3 support skill with 4 slow AOE very expensive skill.

 

I really can play ash style in absolute all warframe! but ash can't do the same to them. Its like play for Ex just using 4 skill only)) 

 

you know ,its real play only with weapon,or without skill use, but skill of warframe make him his NAME. and Ash just lack efficient skills

 

need remove delays on animation,replace suriken,besauce its not skill its some kind of weapon.Ash must be assasin stealth based warframe who can kill without sound

[Damoklesz]

I love my Ash the way it is.

 

Here are some tips for those who can't make it work:

- Don't use shuriken, it's trash and a waste of points and energy. But this is his only useless skill, so it beats most warframes in this front. 

- You NEED to potato Ash, if you don't, you're pretty much screwed, because 30 points is not nearly enough to play in the style that his skills support.

- Get a Gram, that is your weapon, you're only using it with charge attacks, so build accordingly.

- You will rarely ever use guns, so just put in whatever you want levelled.

- Max teleport to get a decent range on it.

- Max smoke screen and continuity to get a 9 second long invisibility with 0.5 second casting time.

- Optionally max Blade Storm, you're using this skill any time your energy gets high and you encounter a decent size pack.

- Max Rush

- The rest of your points go towards shield capacity, shield recharge and armor in this priority order.

 

The playstyle:

Whenever you see an enemy, if its close, you sprint to it, if its far, you teleport to it and charge attack with the Gram. Every light enemy should go down in 1 hit, and the Gram is one of the best DPS weapon against heavies, so there is almost no reason to fire your guns ever (except against Corpus cameras and ospreys, maybe some bosses). If your shields go down, you use smoke screen to let it recharge (9 seconds is plently of time). If your energy gets high, you use Blade Storm. The good thing about that (what people seem to forget to mention) is that Ash is invincible during Blade Storm. Obviously you can be pretty much invincible with smoke screen, so it doesn't worth to save your energy for this.

 

Whe worst thing about Ash is his description, because it says "stealthy". That's a lie. Ash is best used for super-fast melee only. He is arguably the fastest warframe (Loki has faster base sprint but his teleport cost 50 energy total for a shorter range, while Volt has much lower base speed). Meanwhile Ash has some of the best survivability with high hp, high armor, the ability to become invisible for 35 energy, and the ability to teleport to a teammate, out of danger for 25 energy.

 

 

TLDR:

- Shuriken is really trash, no arguing here

- Smoke Screen is a 9 second invisiblity for 35 energy, while invisible, you don't get attacked, and you get damage bonus, in my book this beats Iron Skin.

- Teleport is a great tool for closing the distance, so you can dish out maximum damage as fast as possible.

- Blade Storm is a useful way of spending excess energy

- Great base stats: high HP, high Armor, average shield, and most importantly high sprint speed.

[Ganwybas]

Damoklesz,you really nice understund Ash warframe.

 

I love Ash) at fist.So i think you don't correctly understand my position.

 

So my Ash have "Potato" reactor. 

I use HEK,AkBolto,DarkSword (not always just for style) And Helmet with endurace.

 

My mod is - Flow (energy max)

                   Efficient (30% economy)

                   Continiusly or what .. (+30% time)

                   Rush (30% speed)

                   Focus (25% power)

                   Shield (240%)

and all skills (for the greater goods)  =)

 

 i use all posiible skill tactics and methods

 

We all try to find effective way to kill enemies,and be effective and strong at all.

 

At my point,Ash as warframe, very fast moving blade master with fast charge and strong attack,prefer close combat. And veeeery  rare best sniper!!)) Not so cool as loki but with the Shade sentinels ok) 

 

And he cant play another style,simply besauce you dont beat multiple enemies effectivly,haven't skill for it. You cant show up,enemies kill you fast.

 

So Ash must always fast move!Use smoke?and fast kill enemies with 1 hit.

 

So then,some critical probles show up. If you wanna understand mee at all,and what i am saying ,go alone to hihest Grinier planet and system.And simply try to play.

 

So most important problem for ash.

1 Ash can't have a time to stop and iam the suriken into enemies. In addition suriken have poor accurasy,and very low damage as a prize to spend time and energy. 

2 Ash can't have a time to stand and do smoke bobm animation,its must be instantly with no stops and delays ,iven if he run.Time is limited for 2 skill,and speed is important.

3 Then you teleport ist 2 BIG PROBLEM (i know Dev says that in future patch Ash can teleport to behind enemies)

1 in moment then you already teleport! you can't instantly attack mob,need wait 1-2 seconds to off animation! Its very bad,no air attack,no instant attack.And mobs can see you))

2 need time to aim the target and teleport to!! Its be best if you can just pres 3 skill and it teleports you randomly or on closest target,in adition to normal aim mode.

 

And small what  Ash can't hit multiple enemies,he lack skill of it. 4 skill more for the armor strong target and rare do 12 hit,its about 7-8 max. But this is may be dont need ti him.

 

Ash concentrate on a sigle target. Assasin Teno) so He must be quick and dealy without speed looses.

[mmSNAKE]

I don't know what your issue with Ash is. When I play with him here is how it ends up.

 

Smoke screen to clear out enemies. Smoke Screen to run, Smoke Screen  to get around undetected. Smoke Screen to stun then kill. Shuriken to kill when in bind (reloading, ancient etc).

 

Smoke screen is just that damn good. You are completely underestimating the melee build via crit damage.If you have issues casting smoke screen with those weapons you listed...I don't know what to tell you.

 

To me this is enough. What you believe Ash should accomplish as a frame is not objective, or balancing. Actually your OP would have Ash beat out large majority of frames inadvertently, and some directly.

 

Also Ash's health pool is quite impressive, he can hold his own under fire.

[Ganwybas]

I don't know what your issue with Ash is. When I play with him here is how it ends up.

 

Smoke screen to clear out enemies. Smoke Screen to run, Smoke Screen  to get around undetected. Smoke Screen to stun then kill. Shuriken to kill when in bind (reloading, ancient etc).

 

Smoke screen is just that damn good. You are completely underestimating the melee build via crit damage.If you have issues casting smoke screen with those weapons you listed...I don't know what to tell you.

 

To me this is enough. What you believe Ash should accomplish as a frame is not objective, or balancing. Actually your OP would have Ash beat out large majority of frames inadvertently, and some directly.

 

Also Ash's health pool is quite impressive, he can hold his own under fire.

 

I am a very detailed description of the reasons why it need to do. 

 

And reason is very objective.

 

Ыo why you try rate me? 

 

All I want is that Ash has shown itself as a full-fledged warriors.

 

But for some reason people like you, they say that they are satisfied. Actually, things are not much. That's what this is? Laziness or self-centeredness.

 

Look at the reviews on it. People who know a lot about MMO with one voice declare Ash is terrible!

 

  And here you are and you are satisfied.

[mmSNAKE]

This isn't an mmo. It's a space ninja shooter. MMO means, massive multiplayer online. You didn't specify the genre. If you meant RPG, or people who are experts on MMORPGs normally can't tell which is an &#! end of the gun. There are exceptions, but I wouldn't trust those experts to balance a shooter I play.

 

>_<

[zagibu]

They announced an Ash overhaul, so hold your breath until that's done.