Left 4 Delinquent (?)

[Saint_Tan]

Okay, so I like/play computer games.  And I really enjoy Warframe.  But I am not a “power gamer”.  Since I am old enough to remember playing Space Invaders in the ‘arcade’ (google that term if need be! Haha), that also means I am of age where job/family do not allow me to LIVE on my pc – I guess that puts me squarely in the casual gamer category, though gaming is a major hobby/pass time.

 

 Okay, enough set up.  What is this post about?

 

What’s with everyone in this game competing like it’s a mad dash to the finish line?  Are they giving out Olympic gold medals?  Is this suddenly a racing game?  Need for Speed: Ninja edition?

 

Maybe (probably) I just suck to the standard 13-25 year old’s play level/style, but when I play this particular game – I want to enjoy it.  Fight all the baddies, explore all the beautifully craft map sections, find all the xps/cash/mods/equipment I can.

 

But 95% of the games that I drop into start with all the other players instantly racing against time to get to the finish line.  I can almost hear the ‘skid mark squeal’ of their Teflon coated ninja feet as they blaze through the corridors. 

 

So inevitably, because I am exploring for lockers, learning the maps, being an all around  slow old man, I will get left behind.  Way behind.  So much so, that all three other members are completely out of ghost/translucent sight.

 

Moments later: my screen is blinking at me: Get to Extraction Point.

 

So now, basically I am running through the map, trying to catch up – and the worst part, (you ask???)

 

The other players have already dispatched EVERY POSSIBLE ENEMY.  Yes, this is now a game where next to NO combat exists.  In turn, VERY LITTLE XPs are earned.

 

Is it my fault for not keeping up: Yes.

But do I want to just race through blindly: No

Is this a fun experience playing catch up the majority of the map: No.

 

And this feeds off itself.  Now I find myself also hitting the ground running (which I totally would rather not do). Just to keep up, and share in the XP and see where the (unmarked) Mod drops are.  I’m not sure if we as a party on this mission had fun or not, but by damn we were extracted in under 3 minutes!!!!

 

I have no idea what the solution is (for players like me not wanting a speed-freak experience).  But by nature I am NOT a rusher.  I like to stop and smell the flowers/kill the lowest of ignorable minions.  Heaven forbid, I try/want to go the map UNDETECTED.

 

In real life terms: Most likely I just want to unwind from a hard day at the fast paced ‘rat race’ of the work world.  I don’t want my escapism to be forced into that same ‘hyper sonic speed or you totally lose out and get left behind’ scenario.

 

They say, “Hate the game, not the player.”

 

But I totally dig Warframe.

 

So instead, I say, “hate the player, not the game…”

 

What can be done to address this before the game moves beyond Beta?  Or am I just going to have to be stuck as a Tortoise in the world of Hares?

 

To the Developers: Love this game, guys. Thanks!  Worth every penny of my Master contribution.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Add me as a contact in Warframe, Saint. The only time I rush is when I get in way over my head and the only way to survive is to run like a scared *@##$.

[vieuxchat]

Some players like to rush. Sometimes you need some materials and do runs just for that and take your time. Sometimes you do them for xp and you take your time. Soetimes you need a blueprint and don't want to spend 15 minutes when you know ypou'll have to kill that boss a dozen time before getting all the blueprints you need.

So, maybe you should ask in the chat if you can find some people that like to play like you (I'm like you most of the time) before going into mission (after all there's no such thing as "a TRUE way to play")

[Andaeros]

I guess I am a bit lost since you didn't seem to state a solution, but rather ask the community for one. So I'm uncertain of your purpose in posting the thread in gameplay feedback, but I also get where you're coming from with the discrepancy of playstyle that you have and those you have played with that dash through missions have. Please don't take my partial confusion as a veiled challenge, as it seems you are interested in having a dialog about this matter so I want to better understand your point if there is a singular one that exists.

 

The short answer to your issue I would say is simply play solo, with some friends that are on the same page, or speed up your gameplay. Those are all solutions  of course. Have you ever played Diablo 2? I used to play it, and it's similar to this game in the sense that you get your instanced co-op mission and move through it with players, but when I started I was frequently left in the dust by the experienced and before I made it halfway through the map the boss was dead.

 

I think that in games such as this where you have one a playstyle that facilitates and advertises stylish, fast-paced combat and two, players who are farming or want to progress quickly or even not "waste time" in their perspective that it is an issue which will be encountered unless the game fundamentally changes. I personally vary in how I go through a mission; It depends on my weapon loadout, the enemies, the levels, and a few other variables but you probably get the picture. I have seen plenty of people that always are sprinting, and leave others behind, but I can't control them and so I just try and stick with the team and make sure others aren't left behind if possible.

 

Probably the best way to address it is talk to your team and see what they're wanting, and if you don't want to rush then find some folks of like mind. I wouldn't be for a gameplay tweak that would force players to slow down, but I don't see that you are either, I'm only mentioning that because as far as gameplay changes go something like that would be necessary to put everybody on a more even field as far as progression through a mission.

 

Edit: As retroperspect mentioned, people get bored with doing the same thing over and over again as well. Considering the lack of depth to the missions currently, it becomes irrelevant to take things slow as the content has been experienced multiple times before and very little changes.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Andaeros

[Retroperspect]

another rush thread?

 

I'll admit I jumped around your post to get the general fell, and honestly here's my anwser to why people rush.

 

"because they wish to farm effectively for cash"

 

the problem is finishing a mission is generally the fastest way, and with assasination missions in particular makes people focus on too points.

 

1: kill boss and aquire loot

2: finish level asap to be able to repeat step one for loot

 

the metagame of warframe right now is boss farming and alerts, since that's where the blueprints/higher chance for rare mats/affinity is, and people get bored when they done it a few times I believe.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Retroperspect

[Saint_Tan]

Hey Guys,

 

Thanks for the quick replies!  This is a top notch community.

 

@SolluxCaptorTA - I will look you up.  Let us SEAK and destroy.  Thanks!

 

@vieuxchat - I will take your advice.  Communication is key! Thanks!

 

@Andaeros - Appreciate your kind and thoughtful reply.  I don't have a solution.  I guess I was just throwing "my problem” against the wall to see if others are encountering/bothered by this “fad” in rushing.  I'm not looking for a game change (that would not be fair – as rushing is not only a legitimate game play style, but also found to be fun by some – so I would not abolish it!) But I feel this is an issue that detract from the game experience for players like myself.  So I thought it should be mentioned.  You are totally right, the game does foster this rush 'behavior'.  But just because this 'rush style' is not for me, I'm not saying remove the ability of it.  Rather, how can the two (or multiple) forms of play co-exist?

 

I’m asking.

 

And I think your points are valid.  Communication prior to play is now a necessity for like-minded players to finds each other.

 

@ Retroperspect – I totally get what you are saying.  Rushing makes sense in terms of fast advancement.  But are those players enjoying themselves?  The ride of getting there to the reward, I mean?  Seems like more of a chore "you have to do" to sprint through, but I guess they are.  I guess I’m just not into earning rewards that way.  Thrill of the chase and all.  I would also add, you hit a key point: Metagame.  I’m SO not into that (even in table top miniature games.)  I want a fun game, immersive story that blots out all my daily ‘woes’ while I play.  With a hero (or army) I like to play, verses the option of having the ultimate killy performance unit, regardless of fun/aesthetics/fluff.  I want my Tenno to maneuver on that enemy ship like he really IS in a life or death, no-back-up what-so-ever mission.  Not a marathon event.  But that’s just me. 

 

Further Thoughts?

[DrCashew]

Okay, so I like/play computer games.  And I really enjoy Warframe.  But I am not a “power gamer”.  Since I am old enough to remember playing Space Invaders in the ‘arcade’ (google that term if need be! Haha), that also means I am of age where job/family do not allow me to LIVE on my pc – I guess that puts me squarely in the casual gamer category, though gaming is a major hobby/pass time.

 

 Okay, enough set up.  What is this post about?

 

What’s with everyone in this game competing like it’s a mad dash to the finish line?  Are they giving out Olympic gold medals?  Is this suddenly a racing game?  Need for Speed: Ninja edition?

 

Maybe (probably) I just suck to the standard 13-25 year old’s play level/style, but when I play this particular game – I want to enjoy it.  Fight all the baddies, explore all the beautifully craft map sections, find all the xps/cash/mods/equipment I can.

 

But 95% of the games that I drop into start with all the other players instantly racing against time to get to the finish line.  I can almost hear the ‘skid mark squeal’ of their Teflon coated ninja feet as they blaze through the corridors. 

 

So inevitably, because I am exploring for lockers, learning the maps, being an all around  slow old man, I will get left behind.  Way behind.  So much so, that all three other members are completely out of ghost/translucent sight.

 

Moments later: my screen is blinking at me: Get to Extraction Point.

 

So now, basically I am running through the map, trying to catch up – and the worst part, (you ask???)

 

The other players have already dispatched EVERY POSSIBLE ENEMY.  Yes, this is now a game where next to NO combat exists.  In turn, VERY LITTLE XPs are earned.

 

Is it my fault for not keeping up: Yes.

But do I want to just race through blindly: No

Is this a fun experience playing catch up the majority of the map: No.

 

And this feeds off itself.  Now I find myself also hitting the ground running (which I totally would rather not do). Just to keep up, and share in the XP and see where the (unmarked) Mod drops are.  I’m not sure if we as a party on this mission had fun or not, but by damn we were extracted in under 3 minutes!!!!

 

I have no idea what the solution is (for players like me not wanting a speed-freak experience).  But by nature I am NOT a rusher.  I like to stop and smell the flowers/kill the lowest of ignorable minions.  Heaven forbid, I try/want to go the map UNDETECTED.

 

In real life terms: Most likely I just want to unwind from a hard day at the fast paced ‘rat race’ of the work world.  I don’t want my escapism to be forced into that same ‘hyper sonic speed or you totally lose out and get left behind’ scenario.

 

They say, “Hate the game, not the player.”

 

But I totally dig Warframe.

 

So instead, I say, “hate the player, not the game…”

 

What can be done to address this before the game moves beyond Beta?  Or am I just going to have to be stuck as a Tortoise in the world of Hares?

 

To the Developers: Love this game, guys. Thanks!  Worth every penny of my Master contribution.

 

 

I think that most of this would be solved with a difficulty slider. The reason it ends up with a rat race is because there's no danger in doing so, nor any challenge in doing what you say. While I 100% agree that the fun part is in a challenge and taking it slow, it's just not hard enough for that to entertain me, it's like outsmarting mice and just doing the same thing over and over, just that I get less rewards.

[Andaeros]

@Andaeros - Appreciate your kind and thoughtful reply.  I don't have a solution.  I guess I was just throwing "my problem” against the wall to see if others are encountering/bothered by this “fad” in rushing.  I'm not looking for a game change (that would not be fair – as rushing is not only a legitimate game play style, but also found to be fun by some – so I would not abolish it!) But I feel this is an issue that detract from the game experience for players like myself.  So I thought it should be mentioned.  You are totally right, the game does foster this rush 'behavior'.  But just because this 'rush style' is not for me, I'm not saying remove the ability of it.  Rather, how can the two (or multiple) forms of play co-exist?

 

I’m asking.

 

And I think your points are valid.  Communication prior to play is now a necessity for like-minded players to finds each other.

 

Further Thoughts?

Thanks for elaborating on the matter being more a question than a point to be had, I was guessing that was the case but wanted to leave it up to you to present it one way or the other. At any rate I will echo SolluxCaptorTA's comment and offer you to send me a PM in-game sometime if you want to go through a mission more methodically. It's not as though the game has to be played in a rushed manner all the time (although it facilitates it well) and it can as easily be played as a more standard third person shooter. I can say however, that I have found the speed of melee combat very enjoyable and tend to be a little reckless at times when it comes to the proposition of going into a horde of enemies and cutting them up with my heat swords!

 

To comment on your response to Retroperspect, I think you're wanting more depth to the game than currently exists but that is not to say it won't. I recall a big thread existing that may still be on the front page of some section here mentioning the issue of depth over content being needed. I agree, as currently the storyline is quite weak to be frank. But I gather that the developers are working on it, and there was mention of a codex for instance which would add a large amount of info on things in the universe which will be nice.

 

Edit: Also more dynamic and unpredictable enemies, or at least bosses, would definitely enhance the need to take things a bit slower. Although how much of that can be changed I wouldn't know not having knowledge of coding to any great extent.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Andaeros

[Liberty83]

I'm not usually a rusher.... buuuuuuut when I'm on run 15 trying to get Nyx BP Systems to still drop and 7 helmets later, still no luck.  I'm going to start rushing to farm it as fast as possible.  This is probably the case with some players.

 

For others, who knows why.  Speed running has been a thing for quite some time now, your best bet is to make friends with the people you come across who don't rush and run squads of famaliar people rather than constantly pugging it.

[vieuxchat]

I think that most of this would be solved with a difficulty slider. The reason it ends up with a rat race is because there's no danger in doing so, nor any challenge in doing what you say. While I 100% agree that the fun part is in a challenge and taking it slow, it's just not hard enough for that to entertain me, it's like outsmarting mice and just doing the same thing over and over, just that I get less rewards.

Not only that but also hige differences between players level of warframe : when you do a mission and another player gets all the kills because his/her weapon one-shots everything, you have to be ahead to have a chance to kill things.

At the meoment the balance between damage and shields/health isn't in favor of teamplay as most enemies die very fast (with a properly upgraded weapon you can one-shot most the the enemies)

I got the most enjoyement when the 4 warframes were roughy of the same levels and the weapons too. Teamplay as needed to fast kill things.

[DataShade]

Okay, so I like/play computer games.  And I really enjoy Warframe.  But I am not a “power gamer”.  Since I am old enough to remember playing Space Invaders in the ‘arcade’ (google that term if need be! Haha), that also means I am of age where job/family do not allow me to LIVE on my pc – I guess that puts me squarely in the casual gamer category, though gaming is a major hobby/pass time.

 

 Okay, enough set up.  What is this post about?

 

What’s with everyone in this game competing like it’s a mad dash to the finish line?  Are they giving out Olympic gold medals?  Is this suddenly a racing game?  Need for Speed: Ninja edition?

 

 

From the FAQ!:

 

What about a Cover system? What about Stealth? (I'm a ninja, there should be stealth!)

We love cover systems but for Warframe we felt it sacrificed mobility and simplicity too much. Our coming updates continue down this path even more so, emphasizing the agility and speed aspects of the ninja. We hope to convince you this is a better path for Warframe and that slow and tactical, although great on its own, just doesn't fit well with Warframe. As far as stealth goes: we're with you. We have started on this path with Warframe powers (like Ash and Loki), critical bonuses for charged melee attacks on unaware enemies and perception changes when crouching. We are exploring some very cool stuff for stealth that I will talk about once it is in better shape.

 

 

DE wants the game to be about speed and agility.  So you're always going to have more players rushing to the end than scouring every nook and cranny.  Not that there aren't some who scour - it's the most frequently-repeated suggestion I've seen to people looking to acquire large volumes of crafting materials.

 

BUT you can also play SOLO instead of ONLINE, at which point you can pause the game by hitting the Escape key, and generally take as much time as you want (altho' you'll probably want to avoid soloing defense, mobile defense, or assassination missions if you can avoid it).

 

And if you can make a few friends in-game or recruit a few like-minded friends to the game, you can play PRIVATE with any of your friends (or clanmates) able to join whenever they want.

[stacey69]

Hi saint. Alot of people dont even play online anymore. Some say they rush because they are farming credits but the truth is they just dont understand the game. They leave loot in lockers and ignore the mobs. This means they miss a ton of credits, affinity and mods dropped. They are not the clever ones and tbh leave them to play with each other and swim in their own S#&$.

 

Me and my friends play together and make sure we loot all and kill all. We use teamspeak or skype. Im also an old gamer (40) i started with a vic 20 :) i think youll remember those.

 

Stacey69 in game if you wanna come play with us.