Solving The Energy Problem

[Mietz]

Look at your Warframe, now back to me, look at your abilities, now back to me, look at the energy orbs now back to me...

 

Your Shield is now the Energy Pool.

 

---

 

Benefits:

 

Flexible system, you can have high shield pool and/or fast shield recharge.

Sentinel Synergy, shield restore now has a synergy with your abilities.

The Trade-off for spamming abilities is exposing yourself, yes, this is a good thing.

Decision between streamline, continuity, focus etc. now more interesting

Promotes class focused play for caster frames, hang back and try to stay out of trouble, supporting your team with abilities.

The fast recharge speed of shields allows for the use of abilities more often. (soft CD)

Large shield pools enable players to use strong abilities more often at a price.

Shield Restore consumables now actually useful.

 

 

Disadvantages:

 

System needs a look for overlap issues, especially with tank frames that rely on the shields for initial damage mitigation but also use damage mitigation abilities (Rhino). Proposed solution: Increase the viability of Steel Fiber.

 

Energy regeneration artifact needs to be removed and replaced with shield recharge artifact (Balance?)

 

Flow mod needs to be removed and replaced with a different type. Suggestion: Shield Hardening (armor for shields) or Shield Condenser (decreases recharge time between damage; not recharge speed)

 

Abilities -still- need a look at and a rework to be more useful in combat, especially single target DPS abilities for caster frames (shuriken, fireball, shock). (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/38027-warframes-mods-powers-and-weaponry/#entry357544)

 

Hard look at Disruptor Ancients for balancing.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Mietz

[TinyLesbianRobot]

Interesting idea, but I don't think so.

I most often use my abilities when I'm in a bad situation - like with Ash, I'll use Smokescreen to escape a mob of Chargers and pick off a few of them, but by the time I cast it, my shields are almost certainly gone.  Same with Volt's Electric Shield, and Excalibur's Slash Dash.  I most often need energy when my shield is broken, because my shield is broken.  Removing the player's ability to use abilities in that situation is compromising his ability to defend himself.

 

This system punishes risk-taking and defensive power usage, and that is a major problem in a game that's trying to encourage the player to be a space ninja.  The game wants you to do exciting things - to enter a room with a flying kick and nail three baddies to the wall before landing, and this system, by taking away power usage when the shield is stripped, punishes that approach.

I do like your other concepts - the idea that spamming powers leaves you defenseless, drone synergy, useful shield pickups, the works, but this one major flaw renders all of that moot, I'm afraid.

Edited May 4, 2013 by WingedAnomaly

[MetalGerbil]

the disadvantages needs to be miles longer. ill help.

 

this is not a good idea.

[Mietz]

Interesting idea, but I don't think so.

I most often use my abilities when I'm in a bad situation

 

Thats because the abilities are currently balanced to be used defensively. I mentioned that the bilities -still- need a rework to be used proactively instead of defensively.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

Thats because the abilities are currently balanced to be used defensively. I mentioned that the bilities -still- need a rework to be used proactively instead of defensively.

So you want to remove/fundamentally alter all abilities that can be used to remove yourself from a scenario where your shields are down and you're trapped in the middle of a toxic mosh pit?

This doesn't change my argument - your system punishes the kind of play Warframe is trying to encourage, and beyond that, would make solo downright unfair.

[SnuSnu.]

Interesting, but I don't see the problem with the way energy is now. With the right mods I'm always near max energy, even with skill spamming.

[Mietz]

This doesn't change my argument - your system punishes the kind of play Warframe is trying to encourage, and beyond that, would make solo downright unfair.

 

And what kind of play is that?

 

There is no "oh S#&$" button on Mag except for the AOE ultimate, while Excalibur has the same AOE damage ultimate but -also- slashdash, radial blind and superjump.

 

There is no "oh S#&$" button on Ember, Volt, etc.

 

Some Warframes currently feature no escape abilities whatsoever and some have multiple CC abilities combined with DPS. Warframes have currently very imbalanced ability-structures with extreme specializations while others are great at everything.

 

PS: Toxic damage bypasses shields and goes directly to your HP, find a better example.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

And what kind of play is that?

 

There is no "oh S#&$" button on Mag except for the AOE ultimate, while Excalibur has the same AOE damage ultimate but -also- slashdash, radial blind and superjump.

 

There is no "oh S#&$" button on Ember, Volt, etc.

 

Some Warframes currently feature no escape abilities whatsoever and some have multiple CC abilities combined with DPS. Warframes have currently very imbalanced ability-structures with extreme specializations while others are great at everything.

 

PS: Toxic damage bypasses shields and goes directly to your HP, find a better example.

Please actually read my posts.

As I said, in my first post, the kind of play the game is trying to encourage is high-risk, high-reward.  You're supposed to do awesome and dangerous things with the promise of cleaning a room full of enemies efficiently, but should you fail, there always needs to be a way out.

Beyond that, your argument is still fundamentally flawed.  So, because Ember doesn't have an 'oh snap' button (which it does, by the way - that area of effect fire blast) no frames should have an 'oh snap' button?  Because some frames are designed more for support, you should remove the high-risk frame's ability to extract itself from a bad situation?  Or do you seriously want all the Frames to have completely homogenized gameplay styles?

Your energy solution would turn Warframe into Call of Duty - staying as far away from the enemy as possible, cowering behind boxes while your shield regenerates so you can actually do something in combat.  What part of 'space ninja in power armor' don't you get?

Past that, it would make soloing high-level missions next to impossible.  As it is, when I'm on Pluto solo with my Ash, my shields are almost always scraping rock bottom, if not entirely stripped.  In that situation, I use my powers to stay alive, but if using your powers to protect you in one way compromises another aspect of your defense, you might as well have done nothing at all.

This system punishes the player for using their powers.  In a game where your powers are a central part of your arsenal, doing that is a huge mistake.  Would anyone have liked it if, in Halo, you lost a chunk of health every time you reloaded?  Tying a damage-related punishment to such a fundamentally crucial gameplay element is a one-way ticket to a ruined game.

[Mietz]

Please actually read my posts.

As I said, in my first post, the kind of play the game is trying to encourage is high-risk, high-reward.  You're supposed to do awesome and dangerous things with the promise of cleaning a room full of enemies efficiently, but should you fail, there always needs to be a way out.

Beyond that, your argument is still fundamentally flawed.  So, because Ember doesn't have an 'oh snap' button (which it does, by the way - that area of effect fire blast) no frames should have an 'oh snap' button?  Because some frames are designed more for support, you should remove the high-risk frame's ability to extract itself from a bad situation?  Or do you seriously want all the Frames to have completely &*$$genized gameplay styles?

Your energy solution would turn Warframe into Call of Duty - staying as far away from the enemy as possible, cowering behind boxes while your shield regenerates so you can actually do something in combat.  What part of 'space ninja in power armor' don't you get?

Past that, it would make soloing high-level missions next to impossible.  As it is, when I'm on Pluto solo with my Ash, my shields are almost always scraping rock bottom, if not entirely stripped.  In that situation, I use my powers to stay alive, but if using your powers to protect you in one way compromises another aspect of your defense, you might as well have done nothing at all.

This system punishes the player for using their powers.  In a game where your powers are a central part of your arsenal, doing that is a huge mistake.  Would anyone have liked it if, in Halo, you lost a chunk of health every time you reloaded?  Tying a damage-related punishment to such a fundamentally crucial gameplay element is a one-way ticket to a ruined game.

 

There is a multitude of games that lets you cast spells or special weapons at the cost of health.

 

Recent example: Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon and the Killstar.

 

If you want to tell me that game is slow paced and Call Of Duty, you are insane.

[Story4]

Please actually read my posts.

As I said, in my first post, the kind of play the game is trying to encourage is high-risk, high-reward.  You're supposed to do awesome and dangerous things with the promise of cleaning a room full of enemies efficiently, but should you fail, there always needs to be a way out.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is no high risk-high reward since there is no risk if you have something so lean on. If you go Melee with Rhino but you misjudged the power of the enemies and they take your shield down, but after you can use your Iron skin, there is no risk because you have a safety net.

 

What Mietz suggests is more high-risk-high reward. You can choose to use your abilities, risking shield so making yourself more vulnerable or not use abilities, keep your shield so you have more defense. That is high risk, not relying on safety nets like you currently do.

 

Also, what "gameplay" is WF supporting? The tank gameplay where you run into a group of 10 enemies and still wind up victorious? I don't see any ninja going on there. If abilities use shield as the energy then you can use more invisibility or you have a bigger incentive to use stealth since if you don't you won't be able to use your abilities that much.

 

I'm not saying that the shields for energy thing is without faults, but saying that energy is high risk-high reward is just bonkers.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I'm sorry, but this is no high risk-high reward since there is no risk if you have something so lean on. If you go Melee with Rhino but you misjudged the power of the enemies and they take your shield down, but after you can use your Iron skin, there is no risk because you have a safety net.

 

What Mietz suggests is more high-risk-high reward. You can choose to use your abilities, risking shield so making yourself more vulnerable or not use abilities, keep your shield so you have more defense. That is high risk, not relying on safety nets like you currently do.

 

Also, what "gameplay" is WF supporting? The tank gameplay where you run into a group of 10 enemies and still wind up victorious? I don't see any ninja going on there. If abilities use shield as the energy then you can use more invisibility or you have a bigger incentive to use stealth since if you don't you won't be able to use your abilities that much.

 

I'm not saying that the shields for energy thing is without faults, but saying that energy is high risk-high reward is just bonkers.

Alright, let me take this one point at a time.

Do you know what 'high-risk, high-reward' means?  It means that you take a significant risk for an equivalent or greater reward.  In this case, the risk is death - you risk death by entering the fray, and use your abilities to avoid said death.  As it stands, any offensive frame such as Mag or Volt, and to a lesser extent support frames such as Nyx or Banshee, are high-risk high-reward, as to be truly effective, you need to throw yourself into the heart of a fray and cast your ult.  If you screw up, you're dead.  High risk.  If you get it right, all of them are dead.  High reward.

However, when the reward is no longer worth the risk, it is no longer high-risk high-reward - it's stupidity.  The system the OP is suggesting turns any scenario where you're using your abilities into a high-risk, limited-reward situation, and often, the reward isn't even directly benefiting the player taking the risk.  Say you're playing Nyx, and you mind control an enemy in a distant fray to lighten the load on your teammates.  You have taken a large risk, as your shields are now down by a chunk and won't start recharging until several seconds have passed, and if you're ambushed by enemies from behind, you'll likely get killed given Nyx's overall fragility.  You took a risk for no direct reward and died.  That is not high-risk, high-reward.  That is punishing players for using their abilities.  That is handing players a shiny new toy then slapping them when they want to play with it.

And no, WF is not supporting tanky gameplay - neither was I suggesting that it is.  Do I really need to spell everything out here?  WF is supporting, or at least stating that it is supporting, mobile gameplay - supporting players who take advantage of wallrunning, sprinting, jumping, sliding, and their Warframe abilities to creatively control and dominate the battlefield.  If you think WF is supporting tanky gameplay, outside of the obvious Rhino, of course, then you haven't spent enough time ingame.  If you wade into the middle of a fray without a plan you will die, plain and simple.  That's not tanky.  That's high-risk, high-reward.  That is rewarding players who know what their suit can do and make a calculated decision that puts their well-being at risk for a large payoff.

I'm done here - have a good day.

[Story4]

I'm not saying that his shield-energy system is a very good idea, but every player, especially on solo, uses his/her ability as a safety net, not as a high-risk high-reward thing.

Only time i have seen players go with banshee/ember etc. in the middle of the enemies was when there were other players nearby who would go and heal them if they died. So, again, a safety net, because if anything did happen to you (enemies killing you) another friend would come by and there would be no risk.

On solo runs, people will kill everything they can with weapons and if their shield are low/they are outnumbered they can use an ability and then poof, no more or a lot less enemies. This is not a high-risk high-reward, it is a safety net.

High-risk high-reward situations only exist when something bad can really happen as in you die and no one can revive you, if you have a safety net then where's the risk?

Edited May 5, 2013 by Story4