Fiia Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) In place of the up-vote system that is now currently in place, I wonder if a 5 star rating system would be more beneficial. Much like Amazon has, as it would display to overall community rating of how helpful a post was in a more global fashion. Likely this will not take place, but it could be a middle ground for voting for a post without the direct negative impact. EDIT: Typos Edited May 6, 2013 by Fiia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantazo Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 That sounds good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 A disproportionate number of votes would be 1 and 5s leading scores to be only marginally better than the most recently removed system. Is it better than upvotes only? I think so. Is it ideal? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worira Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yeah, rating something other than a 1 or 5 is just giving your input less impact on the overall rating than it could otherwise have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 A disproportionate number of votes would be 1 and 5s leading scores to be only marginally better than the most recently removed system. Is it better than upvotes only? I think so. Is it ideal? No. I'll take improvement over the ideal as without aggressive and active moderation, as well as consequence of abuse implications (almost impossible to implement in a Free to access model), any abstraction model of tracking will have issues. A star rating system would provide something more grounded I'd think. I'm also ok with no system at all and let the rationality of debate carry, but again, requires pretty active moderation to support that kind of environment. I for one think the moderators, community or DE based, do need to sleep and do something other than forum guard duty all day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 In place of the upvote system that is now currently in place, I wonder if a 5 star rating system would be more benificial. Much like Amazon has, as it would display to overall community rating of how helpful a post was in a more global fashion. Likely this will not take place, but it could be a middle ground for voting for a post without the direct negative impact. Back when these forums had no voting at all was when they were the most friendly. Everyones post was helpful and meaningful to discussion - there were no trolls (well there were a few but they were drowned out by a sea of constructive posting). But while that system was the most community driven one. It doesn't help DE understand what people 'like' at a glance. It makes sense to have some form of upvote system that helps them understand "THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!" with a resounding 100+ upvote OP. The problem is it came with a SEA of negativity with downvotes. People would downvote posts of people they don't like in entirely irrelevant topics. People would feel discouraged from posting if they hit massive amounts of negative votes. People would drag off topic into an ad hominem tangent (Editing their post to say "Who is the troll that downvoted me! Tell me why.") While there are many people who can say "It's just a number - why do other people care" the fact is not everyone sees it as just a number. The system MUST cater to everyone or risk bleeding off possible valuable community members because they went against the crowd in one topic and were discouraged from posting again... (Or maybe they just made the 800th PVP thread and got -1000 downvotes and felt like they weren't valued) What happened as a result of this was removing the toxicity. Now if you want to go against someones post - you must TYPE up a response. If that response gets more upvotes than theirs than so be it. But no one is looking at their post seeing seas of red. No longer will topics have nothing but down votes on both sides of discussion. And no longer will people just lurk and downvote/upvote things without posting their OWN thoughts and contributing to discussions. You might ask for other systems such as this OP. Or you might ask for systems that show both the upvotes AND downvotes. But at the end of the day your arguments must be grounded in the idea of spurring discussion and encouraging more of it. I will be honest I do not think the system you suggested does this. Nor does the one that has both upvotes and downvotes. Both of these give people a way to "contribute" without posting their own "honest" feelings about a subject. What if those feelings were a middle ground? What if those feelings were a compromise that would have made everyone happy? The forum would go without hearing their awesome compromise because they "just upvoted and downvoted what they agreed with" or "rated the post 3/5 stars" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clessiah Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I don't think any kind of voting system can be better than people typing out their thought. You can vote without reading, but you can't make a convincing reply without reading. Amazon's rating system works because people write reviews at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Back when these forums had no voting at all was when they were the most friendly. Everyones post was helpful and meaningful to discussion - there were no trolls (well there were a few but they were drowned out by a sea of constructive posting). *snip* I imagine much more of that has to do with the expansion of the community than the addition of the voting system. Put another way, the community was smaller and more dedicated then. *snip* By the logic both of you presented, up votes should be removed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I imagine much more of that has to do with the expansion of the community than the addition of the voting system. Put another way, the community was smaller and more dedicated then. By the logic both of you presented, up votes should be removed as well. That is true. But I also believe it was because people had to TYPE their thoughts instead of just pressing a button. And as I said in my post - Up votes being removed would be the best system for improving community. But not for helping DE understand what the community thinks without reading 100000's of posts a day. They are only human. Upvotes are there for THEM - not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 And as I said in my post - Up votes being removed would be the best system for improving community. But not for helping DE understand what the community thinks without reading 100000's of posts a day. They are only human. Upvotes are there for THEM - not us. If that's your opinion, why remove the down vote? Why not just hide the number from non-DE accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If that's your opinion, why remove the down vote? Why not just hide the number from non-DE accounts? Because while that is a great compromise - not everyone will do the system if they don't see the results of things. IE: some people will not downvote/upvote unless it shows up. That is what psychology dictates unfortunately. A system that only takes a sample of the user base in is not an ideal one. :( Other constructive compromises could be: Only allowing the OP to have upvote and downvote (both numbers shown) all other posts would either have no voting option or would have upvote only. Problem being the OP would then feel more compelled to edit OP and votes couldn't be changes/might not be re-read to re-cast votes. Also they might not edit the OP at all and comment further into the second page a compromise that everyone is happy with....well everyone is still voting on the original OP - not on the second page. There is no ideal system for both DE and the userbase. So we have to work out either a compromise or make the lives of DE harder. Neither are easy. I do think that removing downvotes was a step in the right direction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 IE: some people will not downvote/upvote unless it shows up. That is what psychology dictates unfortunately. A system that only takes a sample of the user base in is not an ideal one. :( Like the forums? Online forums tend to be slivers of the communities they represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Like the forums? Online forums tend to be slivers of the communities they represent. But they are the pillar of that community that cares the most arguably, is interacting the most with the developers, and are the ones who give suggestions to the developers. The option to interact is there. The point that you bring up just furthers my point. A sliver of a sliver...not much of a sliver to base the future of the game on is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 But they are the pillar of that community that cares the most arguably, is interacting the most with the developers, and are the ones who give suggestions to the developers. The option to interact is there. The point that you bring up just furthers my point. A sliver of a sliver...not much of a sliver to base the future of the game on is it? *chuckle* I wasn't disagreeing with your point, I was exploring a tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Or how about no rating system, and we actually read each other's posts instead of glancing at how well-received it is by the majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worira Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 False dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clessiah Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Up vote... At school, have you ever raised your hand, but everyone else has already said what you were going to say by the time when the teacher finally picked you? That's what up vote is for. Of course replying with "I completely agree with what you have just said" is good, but imagine being the one who actually have a question regarding the topic but have your comment buried by pages of "this is awesome" reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralwn Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I always read on reddit that you shouldn't downvote simply because you disagree with what is being said.... ... so uh what exactly is a downvote for then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I propose that we just get rid of the silly vote system altogether and focus on actually having conversations instead of clicking a button to show support / disapproval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I propose that we just get rid of the silly vote system altogether and focus on actually having conversations instead of clicking a button to show support / disapproval. And post counts and names while we're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 And post counts and names while we're at it. Post counts should be in profiles IMO. Names need to stay where they are, but I do have mixed feelings about our forum identities being the same as our IGN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisp Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I still think this collective pointing-fingers approach to inter-community feedback is a terrible thing that does not belong on any places of discussion. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Post counts should be in profiles IMO. Names need to stay where they are, but I do have mixed feelings about our forum identities being the same as our IGN. Really? I think names have a far more detrimental effect on community than post count. After all, wasn't one of the arguments for removing the down vote system that people stalked others and down voted random posts out of spite? If that's the case, removing names would remove hard feelings and get us down to the ideas and suggestions to improve our community the fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralwn Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Really? I think names have a far more detrimental effect on community than post count. After all, wasn't one of the arguments for removing the down vote system that people stalked others and down voted random posts out of spite? If that's the case, removing names would remove hard feelings and get us down to the ideas and suggestions to improve our community the fastest. no name = zero accountability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraumaHunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Really? I think names have a far more detrimental effect on community than post count. After all, wasn't one of the arguments for removing the down vote system that people stalked others and down voted random posts out of spite? If that's the case, removing names would remove hard feelings and get us down to the ideas and suggestions to improve our community the fastest. You can disagree with someone and make constructive posts against their statements till you are blue in the face. You can follow them on the forums all you want (IG names are diff from forum names - or rather they CAN be i'm pretty sure). But when you post negative remarks against what they say JUST to say negative things about what they say... you will find not many people will take you seriously- your posts will fall on deaf ears eventually. BUT you can't "sabotage" their posts with negative feedback without saying anything. You can't start the snowball effect that is the negative vote war. All you can do is make posts that either combat the posts constructively (maybe gaining a few upvotes!) or look silly. As for removing names. When you remove that sense of identity - people will find a way to put it back in. IE: signing their posts with their IGN. etc. Post count CAN be helpful and it can also be detracting. You shouldn't weigh someones opinion as truth because of their post count or their post count makes their opinion "better" (Some people actually think like this!) But it also should be helpful when there are troll posts and people asking for help. People who have higher post counts TEND to have been around longer and can probably help someone more than someone who has 1 post and just created their account yesterday. If only those 2 people replied to someones question - which post should they trust more? Post count kind of gives it that weight. It's murky waters. EDIT: ^ also - zero accountability is a bad thing... Edited May 6, 2013 by TraumaHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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