Smiths_Chips Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Problem is, you ain't supposed to be scanning my computer for what other processors I am running. You have no right to do so because what I choose to do with all the other RAM/processing power that my computer has is none of your business. It only becomes your business if I use a program to touch your program. (i.e. injecting a process) Sure it's a simple way to get rid of the dumbest cheaters, but it isn't the most effective (for the really good cheaters), nor the fairest. I'm not saying that DE must change it NAO, but that it's something worth looking into. A lot of online games scans your computer for hacks......... just saying... if you don't want a program to scan your computer... don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymphNo9 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Problem is, you ain't supposed to be scanning my computer for what other processors I am running. You have no right to do so because what I choose to do with all the other RAM/processing power that my computer has is none of your business. It only becomes your business if I use a program to touch your program. (i.e. injecting a process) Sure it's a simple way to get rid of the dumbest cheaters, but it isn't the most effective (for the really good cheaters), nor the fairest. I'm not saying that DE must change it NAO, but that it's something worth looking into. Steam client can scan your drivers, does that make them bad guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kishward Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Problem is, you ain't supposed to be scanning my computer for what other processors I am running. You have no right to do so because what I choose to do with all the other RAM/processing power that my computer has is none of your business. It only becomes your business if I use a program to touch your program. (i.e. injecting a process) Sure it's a simple way to get rid of the dumbest cheaters, but it isn't the most effective (for the really good cheaters), nor the fairest. I'm not saying that DE must change it NAO, but that it's something worth looking into. Your first point is completely untrue. That may be the reality you want, but it's not the reality we live in. The second point, the anti-cheat measures are not so simple as to only look at what processes you are running, the detection runs deeper than that. It will catch the "dumbest" cheaters right out of the gate and the "really good cheaters" down the lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VER1 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Your first point is completely untrue. That may be the reality you want, but it's not the reality we live in. The second point, the anti-cheat measures are not so simple as to only look at what processes you are running, the detection runs deeper than that. It will catch the "dumbest" cheaters right out of the gate and the "really good cheaters" down the lane. Unfortunately this is true. Read in between the lines in every nearly EULA and you will find yes they can invade your privacy to various degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeanCatt Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Problem is, you ain't supposed to be scanning my computer for what other processors I am running. You have no right to do so because what I choose to do with all the other RAM/processing power that my computer has is none of your business. It only becomes your business if I use a program to touch your program. (i.e. injecting a process) Sure it's a simple way to get rid of the dumbest cheaters, but it isn't the most effective (for the really good cheaters), nor the fairest. I'm not saying that DE must change it NAO, but that it's something worth looking into. You agreed to it when signing up. Everybody did. It's no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crow-k Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Problem is, you ain't supposed to be scanning my computer for what other processors I am running. You have no right to do so because what I choose to do with all the other RAM/processing power that my computer has is none of your business. It only becomes your business if I use a program to touch your program. (i.e. injecting a process) Sure it's a simple way to get rid of the dumbest cheaters, but it isn't the most effective (for the really good cheaters), nor the fairest. I'm not saying that DE must change it NAO, but that it's something worth looking into. Privacy is important, but you also agreed to the EULA, if it bothers you that much you may wish to re-read it and think about what that allows them to do. The only way around this. Actual-i am editing that part out, you dont need to know-. If no one ever got caught for cheating why are so many people here asking "Why i got banned for 23 years?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missile Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) I also had same ancounter, yet i use cheat engine for Age Of Empire to make ultimate slaughter... forgot to turn it off, bam banned, took the support a week to anwser.. woohoo, got unbanned, now i check CE every time i log in wf, altough while losing a week, i got turned off the game :/, cant enjoy it atm. I think il start using ArtMoney instead of CE, although its not half as good... Edited May 10, 2013 by Missile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymphNo9 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I like how seven of us replied to Bitlard's post within minutes. Successful troll is successful :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlifeSW Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 If your running dangerous programmes make another windows installation or just another account. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I like how seven of us replied to Bitlard's post within minutes. Successful troll is successful :( His statement isn't trolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymphNo9 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 His statement isn't trolling... I find it trolling talking about stuff that you have no clue about. But you can call it ignorant if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitlard Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Thanks guys, I am really feeling the love <3 With regard to the notion that it's in the EULA and DE has the right to do so, please see previous post. It's not about whether they have the legal right to do so (which is the purpose of the EULA, and any EULA; to protect themselves legally), but whether it's fair for them to do so. With regard to the notion that "That may be the reality you want, but it's not the reality we live in." The same could be said for almost anything you disagree with. The whole point of this thread (and any reasoned discussion) is to talk about how to make the reality we live in better. With regard to the notion that "You agreed to it when signing up. Everybody did. It's no excuse." It's true. Legally, you don't have a case. But then again you NEVER did even if DE didn't implement its most recent clause in the EULA since legally speaking your account doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the gaming company, so you never did have a legal claim to begin with. The real issue is whether this is the ideal way for DE to detect cheaters. With regard to the idea that "if it bothers you that much you may wish to re-read it and think about what that allows them to do," again, it's not about what they legally can do, neither is it about me "feeling" bothered. Don't change the subject. It's about whether it's fair and effective. Edit: I'm not absolutely against the system as it is, I just think it needs to be refined to avoid banning innocent players. You can say all you want about how there has been ample warning, the fact remains that accidents occur, and though it may be rare and unlikely to happen to you, spare a thought for some of us yeah. Edited May 10, 2013 by bitlard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kishward Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 With regard to the notion that "That may be the reality you want, but it's not the reality we live in." The same could be said for almost anything you disagree with. The whole point of this thread (and any reasoned discussion) is to talk about how to make the reality we live in better. What..? That statement was completely valid. It's not a blanket argument for any position. Reality is what reality is, and in this situation it is fact that many, many, programs log/observe what software and hardware is running on your PC. There is no defensible position that can deny that. I'm in support of a discussion of forward progress but there has to be a line drawn in the sand with regards to malicious players. DE has made their stance and I as a player and supporter back their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lunatic_ Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Are people seriously of the opinion that banning people for running a program called "Cheat Engine" is going to stop people intentionally trying to cheat? I mean, seriously? Like, okay, I know, if it's unguarded, people -could- use it to cheat, but, anyone who is going in with the attitude to cheat this game is either going to do one of the following things. 1: Look up a guide. These will usually contain a program or some sort of bypass for the protection. As it, stands it seems all the current protection does is runs a check for the NAME of the process, you know this is bypassed? You can rename the process. Likewise, you can rename your "Paint.exe" process to "Cheatengine" and you will get banned for running paint while warframe is open. It's a horribly ineffective system, and I honestly can't say if there's even more to it than that. 2: Anyone who is stupid enough to try and cheat with cheatengine, probably isn't smart enough to actually do anything with it, if they're also incapable of figuring that the process interacting with Warframe will get you banned. Anyone who is in defense of this system is just woefully unaware of how these programs work, and how hacking games in general works. This protection is cheap, it is ineffective and wastes the time of support and utimately costs players. Even looking at these forums, "I've been banned for leaving cheat engine open" is one of the biggest topics. It's a very common program because it has uses outside of just "Cheating", it's primary function as a cheat engine is horribly ineffective because any game with even the most modest cheat protection, it simply won't work on without some know-how. It's an extreme minority of malcious players who are honestly launching this game and expecting to get away with running "CheatEngine.exe". People who are trying to hack games, just don't work like that, for the most part, they fall into a group called "Script Kiddies", (Actual term) which is basically just people who go to the various cheating websites on the internet, download somebody else's work and use that to cheat. The people who make these hacks are very capable of bypassing a simple "If running process X, Ban" style protection, and the current system is woefully incapable of protecting against that and is just far too trigger happy with legitmate players. Please, if you're going to take a side in this, actually educate yourself on the reality of the situation. If you're honestly going into this discussion thinking that there's some large group of cheaters using "CheatEngine" and are being thwarted by this system, you're just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zectifin Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Ban his entire ip address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzhal Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 @Cingal: Tested and checked. There is more to the system than simply checking for a name for sure; you will get banned if you try to run CE but change the name of the process. It does strike me as odd that the first level of defense is to just immediately ban people based on a name, though. God forbid a game named Cheat Engine becomes really popular, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lunatic_ Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 @Cingal: Tested and checked. There is more to the system than simply checking for a name for sure; you will get banned if you try to run CE but change the name of the process. It does strike me as odd that the first level of defense is to just immediately ban people based on a name, though. God forbid a game named Cheat Engine becomes really popular, haha. I'm honestly suprised! However, I did a little reading on this, I figured I'd check to see what the status is for the various hacking forums across the internet. While cheat engine is banned. Another, rather commonly used cheating program, is not. ... Which is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzhal Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Well......Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantazo Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 First time banned a mistake, second you deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Sigh... I used to god mode / give all almost every single player PC game I owned, because I didn't have allot of time to play things over/fail, etc... Those big game studio games for $50 a pop, would last me what? 8-12 hours max? While I see those games like COD and Gears of War to be more like interactive movies, I feel I cheated myself out of gaming experience overall. After playing Warframe (180 hours logged now) and never cheating I discovered two things... I don't actually suck all that much and there's really no reason to cheat here. Failing missions only made me want to get better at the game and play harder. I don't know about all those "debugging/I'm a programmer, that's why..." posts, but cheating in video games you choose to play is just like lying to yourself. In the end that truth is emptiness and it's even worse knowing that others are kicking your &#! while not cheating. Just some food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidstalker Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Simple. Don't. Cheat. Or don't have Warframe running if you absolutely have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDeathCoreX Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 You would think after the first time he would be more careful >_> Think of it as people running into laser doors again and again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDeathCoreX Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Simple. Don't. Cheat. Or don't have Warframe running if you absolutely have to. And what if cheating adds replay value to a game you are already bored off and would make you play it again especially if you get something you really want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDeathCoreX Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Sigh... I used to god mode / give all almost every single player PC game I owned, because I didn't have allot of time to play things over/fail, etc... Those big game studio games for $50 a pop, would last me what? 8-12 hours max? While I see those games like COD and Gears of War to be more like interactive movies, I feel I cheated myself out of gaming experience overall. After playing Warframe (180 hours logged now) and never cheating I discovered two things... I don't actually suck all that much and there's really no reason to cheat here. Failing missions only made me want to get better at the game and play harder. I don't know about all those "debugging/I'm a programmer, that's why..." posts, but cheating in video games you choose to play is just like lying to yourself. In the end that truth is emptiness and it's even worse knowing that others are kicking your &#! while not cheating. Just some food for thought. What would you do after finishing a game? Would you feel you should be rewarded with some cool features, maybe some cheats you make you play again. Some games just don't care that you beat it or even completed it 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDeathCoreX Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 First time banned a mistake, second you deserve it. And you're a fool that cannot recognize mistakes can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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