Suggestion To Devalue Rushing

[SeidRavn]

I've seen some stuff has already been implemented to discourage rushing levels, but I think the "solution" might be to use a more gentle hand to make it less profitable.

So, my suggestion:

Start by reducing drops of credits, materials, mods, etc etc in missions, then give bonuses to credits, and additional random items as rewards for things like:

Killing all mobs (would have to set a base number of mobs for every level)

Stealth kills

Large percentage of cases opened.

"Hidden" areas visited

 

As well as for crazy stuff like:

Single kill (or dozen kill) assassinations.

Fast extermination

Finishing without taking health damage, and/or in defense not letting the objective take damage.

 

This would in my mind make rushing a level less rewarding, and would also strengthen group play within clans and circle of friends and hopefully encourage more cooperation within groups.

 

Anyone agree, disagree or have other cool input about the idea?

[PapaKicks]

Disagree.

I still prefer my own solution: Let the rushers rush, and then the game continues without them.

[Bonemiser]

Rushing is already heavily disincentivized by significantly lowered experience gains and effectively no mod, fusion core or material drops (unless they spend extra time opening lockers and containers). Double-locked doors exist to slow them down, and they can't extract on their own even if they do rush ahead.

 

I don't feel there is any need to penalize them further. Mechanics already exist to slow them down and lower their rewards. If anything, the opposite scenario (two players effectively AFK in a three-man party) is much worse.

 

The best fix for differences in speed would be one where both playstyles benefit even if they are in the same party.

Edited May 11, 2013 by FenixStryk

[Enomilli]

Let rushers have the ability to extract early.

 

I have literally walked through entire levels as a Saryn...killing everything in my path and  they have still failed to catch up. 

 

I did not bother to sprint or anything.

 

If I change my mind about killing them because my team is taking ages to catch up I don't want to lose out because of their incompetence...

[Satori_Mind]

Yes.  Let's turn every mission into a total OCD slog.  No way.  Accept whoever you get when you're playing in random matchmaking.  Play with friends and clanmates when you have more specific plans.

[Geuax]

I've seen some stuff has already been implemented to discourage rushing levels, but I think the "solution" might be to use a more gentle hand to make it less profitable.

So, my suggestion:

Start by reducing drops of credits, materials, mods, etc etc in missions, then give bonuses to credits, and additional random items as rewards for things like:

Killing all mobs (would have to set a base number of mobs for every level)

Stealth kills

Large percentage of cases opened.

"Hidden" areas visited

 

As well as for crazy stuff like:

Single kill (or dozen kill) assassinations.

Fast extermination

Finishing without taking health damage, and/or in defense not letting the objective take damage.

 

This would in my mind make rushing a level less rewarding, and would also strengthen group play within clans and circle of friends and hopefully encourage more cooperation within groups.

 

Anyone agree, disagree or have other cool input about the idea?

 im not azoom zoom zoom rusher ,but this sort of bs will just kill the last  few S#&$s i give for this game. try  just letting others play  the way they like.

[Symbiont71]

no matter, let me stress that even more: NO MATTER the outcome, no matter the penalty, there will always be rushers. Most people rush the levels to get to their desired defense/assasination mission so they don't even care about the missions they're in. Or even rush only to unlock all the missions for upcoming alerts.

 

There's literally no way around it, given the current options.

 

The only way i see this getting fixed is making an ACTUAL freakin' lobby where people see the list of hosts and where the hosts have a description next to them like: "rush", "farming for x" and so on. 

 

Or this:

Ystella: "Let rushers have the ability to extract early." 

Edited May 11, 2013 by Symbiont71

[sGs.salp]

I've seen some stuff has already been implemented to discourage rushing levels, but I think the "solution" might be to use a more gentle hand to make it less profitable.

So, my suggestion:

Start by reducing drops of credits, materials, mods, etc etc in missions, then give bonuses to credits, and additional random items as rewards for things like:

Killing all mobs (would have to set a base number of mobs for every level)

Stealth kills

Large percentage of cases opened.

"Hidden" areas visited

 

As well as for crazy stuff like:

Single kill (or dozen kill) assassinations.

Fast extermination

Finishing without taking health damage, and/or in defense not letting the objective take damage.

 

This would in my mind make rushing a level less rewarding, and would also strengthen group play within clans and circle of friends and hopefully encourage more cooperation within groups.

 

Anyone agree, disagree or have other cool input about the idea?

 

I wonder, you don't want to play with other people who have a different playing style and want to force them to play yours?

Not trying to be aggressive here, but it would be the same as me wanting to have penalties in terms of exp/credits/what ever for every moment someone looks in every nook and cranny.

 

I wouldn't mind rewarding certain play styles, but I would mind penalizing them.

People have different preferences, motivations, moods, etc. (and that can vary per day or even per run), don't force yours on others.

[SeidRavn]

I don't mind people with other playstyles, but there are limits.

Like today I ended up starting a game twice where even when I was sprinting to catch up the person who joined up with me got to the boss and killed him before I even got to the general area. That just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

I do see the points raised here however, and see how it could turn the game more grindy.

 

I still think more interesting gameplay should be rewarded, though the suggestion might be a bit on the heavy handed side.

[rksk16it]

Rushing exist in this game because there is neither challenge nor reward, unless you are doing gazillion'th wave in some defense mission (which is again, just a challenge, there is not much of a reward). At the time of writing this post I am relatively a new player (like 10-15 days into this game), and I already finished every mission (counting 5 waves of defense as "finish").

 

And yes, I am a rusher. What I gain by rushing ? Time !!

 

Think about this, instead of fighting so many stupid mobs, I actually get to fight a boss faster, I get increased chances of getting my resource in terms of gain per minute (or hour whatever).

 

 

Rushing is already heavily disincentivized by significantly lowered experience gains and effectively no mod, fusion core or material drops (unless they spend extra time opening lockers and containers). Double-locked doors exist to slow them down, and they can't extract on their own even if they do rush ahead.

 

 

Yes I know all the other mobs have a chance to drop those shiny rare mods. But its only like 2 or 3 specific rare mods I need, rest of them I dont really care. The chances of getting a rare mod at first place is already so low, and chances of getting the mod you ACTUALLY NEED is even lower. Sometimes I think the chances are like one in a million or billion.

 

I am sorry, but I see no point in killing a million stupid mobs for one mod, heck, I may not even live that long to kill that many mobs !!! So yea, I am rushing to boss, if I see any locked gate, I will just kill every1 in the room, alt-tab and browse the web while my teammates catch on. If I see stalker, I will try to fight him, if I die I will just revive myself and move on without giving a s*** ...

 

Regarding experience, well my warframe and all my weapons are at max level. Only my sentinel is not, but he dies in like one shot so I dont really pay any attention to whether he is alive or not.

 

So I slot marathon and rush mods, press shift, and play a bit of need for speed !!!

[Ninjaman999]

I think to significantly lower the amount of rushers, all you have to do is add the occasional mod drop to lockers and containers.
Rushers rush but also kill everything they find so they don't actually lose out on mods too often. Add a 50% mod drop to those super locker rooms so we are heavily incentiviced to explore :D

Edited May 12, 2013 by Ninjaman999

[rksk16it]

I think to significantly lower the amount of rushers, all you have to do is add the occasional mod drop to lockers and containers.

Rushers rush but also kill everything they find so they don't actually lose out on mods too often. Add a 50% mod drop to those super locker rooms so we are heavily incentiviced to explore :D

 

I dont think its that simple as it may sound. Doing that will increase the mod acquisition rate for everyone, which will reduce the value of modpacks, and IMO they dont want that to happen as it will reduce their "monetary inflow".

 

The only way to reduce rushers is to provide them more rewards for not rushing, without economically hurting the game. And THAT is pretty complicated to achieve.

[TheSteelPhantom]

Disagree.

I still prefer my own solution: Let the rushers rush, and then the game continues without them.

 

Agreed 100%. I don't rush, personally, when playing with a group of people. But there's no downside to letting other people rush. If a 4-player group of rushers want to rush... how does that hurt you? If 3 people rush and you're left behind... oh well. Wait 1 minute, and leave group.

 

Rushers aren't the majority, just unfortunate to get in a full group. Annoying, but... there's lots of stuff that's annoying under specific circumstances. Rushers are bottom-of-the-barrel when it comes to "what needs to be fixed soon" check-list items.

[PapaKicks]

Yes I know all the other mobs have a chance to drop those shiny rare mods. But its only like 2 or 3 specific rare mods I need, rest of them I dont really care. The chances of getting a rare mod at first place is already so low, and chances of getting the mod you ACTUALLY NEED is even lower. Sometimes I think the chances are like one in a million or billion.

 

They don't feel nearly that rare to me. And I like to kill everything in sight. So I guess this is a counter-anecdote to yours.

[Fadeway]

What is rushing? The goal of the mission is to do X and extract. Killing everything and taking ten times as long is simply being slow. I'm saying this not to say that taking your time is bad, but to remind you that rushing, too, is a legitimate playstyle. If you get one guy who hurries ahead, sure, he's rushing and screwing everyone else over. The same is true for the reverse case too though - nobody likes waiting for "that guy" (or those two guys) that take an extra minute to reach the elevator. The current system where you need 50% of the team to extract works well in that it serves the benefit of the majority, no matter whether that majority is made up of rushers or slowpokes.

 

Rushing is currently incentivized by the game. For the one hour you'd take to complete two normal missions, I can spend 2x15 minutes to rush two of them and then use the remaining time to run an endless defense, ending up with the same amount of money and experience and a lot more mods than you. If one is doing a normal mission to unlock more planets or to grab the alert reward, that's all that's important - everything else is best obtained elsewhere, making normal mob-killing a waste of time.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Fadeway

[rksk16it]

They don't feel nearly that rare to me. And I like to kill everything in sight. So I guess this is a counter-anecdote to yours.

 

I was not stating a fact, I said what "I feel".

 

I find them too rare for the time I can spend playing, or my patience, or my general lack of interest in shooting mobs who are hopelessly dumb. All of that I said as a reason to why I rush.

 

You rush cuz of some other reason. Fine. You dont rush cuz you like to kill everything you see moving, its FINE, its YOUR choice. I am merely stating the fact that rushers who are rushing for reasons similar to me will exist as long as those reasons (no challenge + no reward) exist. Regardless of the fact that other teammates find killing mobs entertaining and go about killing every single room. I will just reach extraction point, alt-tab and watch youtube.

 

What is rushing? The goal of the mission is to do X and extract. Killing everything and taking ten times as long is simply being slow. I'm saying this not to say that taking your time is bad, but to remind you that rushing, too, is a legitimate playstyle. If you get one guy who hurries ahead, sure, he's rushing and screwing everyone else over. The same is true for the reverse case too though - nobody likes waiting for "that guy" (or those two guys) that take an extra minute to reach the elevator. The current system where you need 50% of the team to extract works well in that it serves the benefit of the majority, no matter whether that majority is made up of rushers or slowpokes.

 

Rushing is currently incentivized by the game. For the one hour you'd take to complete two normal missions, I can spend 2x15 minutes to rush two of them and then use the remaining time to run an endless defense, ending up with the same amount of money and experience and a lot more mods than you. If one is doing a normal mission to unlock more planets or to grab the alert reward, that's all that's important - everything else is best obtained elsewhere, making normal mob-killing a waste of time.

 

+1

[PapaKicks]

I was not stating a fact, I said what "I feel".

 

I find them too rare for the time I can spend playing, or my patience, or my general lack of interest in shooting mobs who are hopelessly dumb. All of that I said as a reason to why I rush.

 

You rush cuz of some other reason. Fine. You dont rush cuz you like to kill everything you see moving, its FINE, its YOUR choice. I am merely stating the fact that rushers who are rushing for reasons similar to me will exist as long as those reasons (no challenge + no reward) exist. Regardless of the fact that other teammates find killing mobs entertaining and go about killing every single room. I will just reach extraction point, alt-tab and watch youtube.

 

 

+1

 

I ALSO only stated how "I feel".

Exactly why I like my solution to rushing, just let the game continue after the 'rushers' have exited. Everyone gets to do exactly what they want.

[Thaumatos]

Rushers exist for specific reasons:

 

1. Assassination missions need to be repeated multiple times in order to get frame prints.

2. Missions to the "Boss" fight are carbon-copy, A-to-B, travel maps both before and after the boss.

3. Unlocking other missions and other planets.

4. Missions encourage rapid movement from constant respawn.

5. Exploring is irrelevant and mostly unfruitful.

6. Map "chunks" are unexciting, straightforward, and easily navigated.

7. "Secret" or "Trick" areas yield no real reward.

8. Monsters are easily circumvented and/or destroyed.

 

I can give a short answer for each one of these that will greatly discourage rushing without putting undue strain on players.  Some of these suggestions are currently being worked on (specifically bosses) and others are more 'pie in the sky' sort of things.  They would all help the rushing situation though:

 

1. Assassinating the target clears the mission and extraction is immediate.  The chance for blueprints is rolled and given as an end-mission reward and not a pick-up which you have a chance of missing.

 

2. Boss fights are specifically designed, non-random, maps that have mechanics and a random end-mission reward that can be comparable to an alert mission

 

3. Each 'diamond' mission can be given a set of objectives that the player chooses one from before beginning.  The current options could then be tied to an overarching storyline that gives more RP-interested players a reason to play through an area on each type originally intended.

 

4. Do not allow respawn until the objective changes.  Give better tools to the AI for following players and building a massive force throughout the level if they decide to "run by" without killing.

 

5. Allow the randomization of longer 'side' paths with a locker or chest at the end which could give a random mod, blueprint, etc.  Put these pathways on the minimap with a silver objective icon to let players know something is there but it isn't mandatory.

 

6. Making a map interesting is not simply solved by adding more "chunks".  More environment interaction must be present in all chunks.  More destructible environment simply for the sake of destruction, more moving parts outside of players and AI, more pathways to get to the next chunk.  These things take time but have to be acknowledged before they can be implemented.

 

7. Many times I've run along the wall to open a secret door filled with lockers that are all...well....locked.  And I've ran and jumped on moving cargo boxes in order to get to the 'secret' area that has no boxes and all randomly locked lockers...locked?  Give those areas a definite set of unlocked chests that will always spit out a bunch of pickups.

 

8. Tying in a bit with #4 but more elaborate.  Create AI that gives players pause throughout the mission.  The "heavy" Grineer are interesting, but they're not all that difficult and become somewhat necessary in order to provide a proper challenge.  Putting more of them in existing fights is not a solution either.  Implement more ways for AI to halt progression, much like the lockdown effect, to keep people from jump-dashing carelessly through chunks.  For example, Grineer could have the ability to create makeshift blockades to shield themselves from gunfire and must be actively destroyed by the players to continue.

 

 

These are merely suggestions to a series of real issues that create a real problem.  People don't like rushing but it is currently being incentivized in multiple ways.  The "rushers gonna rush" argument is simply a crutch used to prop up what is ultimately a crippling lack of interest in actually playing the game.

 

All games can be fun to a point.  The question is, where is that point in your game, and what can you do to push it further from double-clicking the desktop shortcut?

[MEsoJD]

 This topic really getting annoying and I think a vocal minority is making it seem more of a problem than it really is.

[rksk16it]

 This topic really getting annoying and I think a vocal minority is making it seem more of a problem than it really is.

 

The problem is with the game. Its too simple, straighforward, one-dimensional and doesnt require much team-play. And no, every1 attacking the boss at the same time is not "interesting teamplay".

 

The only... ONLY.. case where solid teamplay is needed in this game is defense missions after few waves. And I find it funny how Lotus declares that we will be "rewarded" if we choose to fight longer... and the reward is SAME mod that was offered before.

 

And I cant overstate how hilarious I find Lotus declaring that jackal gonna be some enemy we have never seen before, even if I am on like its 200th run ROFL.

 

Also, if you can buy lots of platinum, then even the "progress" in this game is pretty one-dimensional. That is, by spending platinum, I can get weapons, warframes, sentinels, etc, I never have to care about blueprints. The only remaining thing to do is to find mods.

 

I understand the game is in beta, and things are being improved. In the meantime I would like a certain option to turn off Lotus, she is soo repetitive that its rather annoying to hear same dialogues over and over again. When I am rushing, a simple look on the map is suffice to know what to do, and if objectives are changed, its easily noticed by things like "enemies: xyz" means mission changed to exterminate, a data disk lying on floor means "pick-it-up-and-continue-rushing-towards-minimap-as-before". Lotus is useless to the point of irrelevance to me.

[PapaKicks]

Also, if you can buy lots of platinum, then even the "progress" in this game is pretty one-dimensional. That is, by spending platinum, I can get weapons, warframes, sentinels, etc, I never have to care about blueprints. The only remaining thing to do is to find mods.

 

You can buy mod packs with platinum.

[rksk16it]

You can buy mod packs with platinum.

 

That is nothing like buying warframe or weapons. The mod pack, dragon mod pack in particular, for 90 platinum, provides guaranteed 2 rare, but they are random. And the problem with it is.. well... random stuff is random. I would rather like to spend 1000 platinum for a single mod I NEED, rather than 90 platinum for 2 rare I may not need.

 

I actually bought one dragon pack, it gave me 2 rare mods which were abilities for warframes which I dont own, dont own blueprints for their parts, not planning to buy, and NOT interested to play. I am not sure what should I do with those "rare" mods. For the time being, I am keeping them. But one thing is sure, I am not buying another dragon mod pack again, thats 90 platinum down the drain for me.

[PapaKicks]

That is nothing like buying warframe or weapons. The mod pack, dragon mod pack in particular, for 90 platinum, provides guaranteed 2 rare, but they are random. And the problem with it is.. well... random stuff is random. I would rather like to spend 1000 platinum for a single mod I NEED, rather than 90 platinum for 2 rare I may not need.

 

I actually bought one dragon pack, it gave me 2 rare mods which were abilities for warframes which I dont own, dont own blueprints for their parts, not planning to buy, and NOT interested to play. I am not sure what should I do with those "rare" mods. For the time being, I am keeping them. But one thing is sure, I am not buying another dragon mod pack again, thats 90 platinum down the drain for me.

 

I didn't say you _should_ buy them, only that you can. You listed everything you can buy with platinum then said "only thing left to do is farm mods". So I implied, if you really wanted to, you didn't even have to farm mods.