Game Needs To Be Made More Difficult.

[OneOhOne]

I feel the game is entirely too easy.  It needs to be made harder, or at the very least, there needs to be some sort of difficulty selecter that increases the difficulty by quite a bit, and also offers rarer resource/BP drops that are only available in those difficulties.

[R3leaZ]

They already talked about implementing this kind of feature in the livestream

[overdosed]

They already talked about implementing this kind of feature in the livestream

 

Still its good that more threads like this pop up, so that DE can see that theres a real demand for the game to be harder.

[OneOhOne]

Still its good that more threads like this pop up, so that DE can see that theres a real demand for the game to be harder.

I agree :)

[SpiderWaifu]

I don't think that the core game should become harder, but I am on the side of there being a difficulty slider or selection.

It shouldn't be a major priority just yet, because right now, the people who want difficulty sliders are the people who have maxed out everything and steamroll Pluto... Or just crazy people.

Difficulty slider after! more important things are done and fixed.

[Guest]

Balancing this game when random mod drops exist is going to be a nightmare.

 

One person could get nothing but crappy mod drops, and another person could get Serration and Split Chamber. The second person is going to have a completely different and easier experience from the first person who is struggling with his endless waves of Trick Mag mods.

[overdosed]

I don't think that the core game should become harder, but I am on the side of there being a difficulty slider or selection.

It shouldn't be a major priority just yet, because right now, the people who want difficulty sliders are the people who have maxed out everything and steamroll Pluto... Or just crazy people.

Difficulty slider after! more important things are done and fixed.

No need for a diff slider. Just set up 3 difficulties on all planets and let ppl choose which one they want to play.

 

 

1. Easy mode(normal rewards and drop chance)

 

2. Same as mid to high lvl planets(better rewards, drop chance and mat bundles)

 

3. Something extremely hard, harder than Pluto for sure(even better rewards, drop chance and mat bundles)

 

 

And whats more important than core gameplay? New weapons, skins or new sounds and effects?(the only thing i see that is just as important as the diff right now is a full rework on so many useless or close to useless skills. I personally dont feel like playing much right now as the game poses no challenge. I only play when theres a good alert or if i have to farm for something to build new stuff.

 

WIth update 8 i guess ill have some more farming to do, and well have the new orokin tileset, but after a week or two ill go through that content and again ill have no reason to play except for the occasional alert or farming run. A good game is a challenging game, something that gives you satisfaction after youve finished playing.

 

And also i really feel like everything needs a bit more health. No bullet sponges ofcourse, but right now maxing a weapon is a complete waste as you can only utilize its full dmg potential on bosses. Why should i waste  a Hek round on greneer grunt on ceres for example when i can kill heavies with 2. Too much wasted damage potential is not good. When youre playing on the appropriate lvl for you gear, your damage should be just enough to kill stuff in good  time. Not more and not less. This is a balance thats missing from warframe right now and something that i really miss, as a gamer.

[OneOhOne]

I partially disagree with what's been said.  There also needs to be exclusive rewards to the harder difficulties that aren't attainable without playing them.  This gives a real reason to play them, and gives players who aren't as "skilled" something to aspire to.

[Moondancer]

WIth update 8 i guess ill have some more farming to do, and well have the new orokin tileset, but after a week or two ill go through that content and again ill have no reason to play except for the occasional alert or farming run. A good game is a challenging game, something that gives you satisfaction after youve finished playing.

 

And also i really feel like everything needs a bit more health. No bullet sponges ofcourse, but right now maxing a weapon is a complete waste as you can only utilize its full dmg potential on bosses. Why should i waste  a Hek round on greneer grunt on ceres for example when i can kill heavies with 2. Too much wasted damage potential is not good. When youre playing on the appropriate lvl for you gear, your damage should be just enough to kill stuff in good  time. Not more and not less. This is a balance thats missing from warframe right now and something that i really miss, as a gamer.

For some people this is true but for a lot of people a good game is a fun game and this game is fun. And if you run stuff without catalysts and reactors and mods over level 5(mostly cause you cant fit them due to not having a the a for mentioned catalysts and reactors) the game is pretty challenging.

 

I agree that there should be an optional difficulty slider but that it should not give better rewards then regular missions.

[Terrence_Knight]

I highly disagree that harder difficulties need 'exclusive' rewards, I agree that they should have much better drop chances on mods and higher xp/credit rewards. It would lead to more elitism with people saying you 'must get this mod from this mode or your a nub and can't join my group/clan/whatever'. What happens when highly skilled players still cry out for a harder difficulty still with even better rewards?

 

 I'm all for rewarding people for running at higher difficulties but I'll never feel exclusive rewards is a good idea.

[Eyro]

Stop minmaxing damage, try to go for utility for a challenge?

[Argoms]

Stop minmaxing damage, try to go for utility for a challenge?

 

Artificial difficulty is not fun...

 

 

Seriously, how many times do I have to say that? The game doesn't get any more fun if it takes a magazine to kill a single enemy. Give enemies more damaging attacks, but have them telegraph them so a skilled played can avoid them. Create more environmental hazards that we can fall into, or use to our advantage against enemies. Increase the usability of wallrunning in combat by having enemies use more projectile weapons, promoting being mobile instead of hiding behind cover all the time.

 

Don't just double enemy health and attack strength...

[Excitonex]

 

Artificial difficulty is not fun...

 

 

Seriously, how many times do I have to say that? The game doesn't get any more fun if it takes a magazine to kill a single enemy. Give enemies more damaging attacks, but have them telegraph them so a skilled played can avoid them. Create more environmental hazards that we can fall into, or use to our advantage against enemies. Increase the usability of wallrunning in combat by having enemies use more projectile weapons, promoting being mobile instead of hiding behind cover all the time.

 

Don't just double enemy health and attack strength...

Mechanics make a fight hard, not numbers. This guy understands.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Excitonex

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

They will probably just nerf us to oblivion to make the game harder.

[overdosed]

Nope, no difficulty exclusive awards, thats really bad. Just increased normal awards. And as far as enemies having more health i think i explained pretty good how much more health they need and why. Im really tired of ppl not reading important stuff...

And min maxing is not a thing in this game as everything except the multishot mods is easily available and upgradable.

 

And im really sorry, but ill have to give an example of good game difficulty with me3. There for example for the experienced player the most fun difficulty was gold(out of bronze, silver, gold and platinum) because there that balance of just enough damage to kill stuff fast with most weapons without overkill was observed. When playing on gold you didnt waste damage, nor did you waste ammo on bullet sponges. And please dont say anything about warframe being f2p and me3 being a triple A game, as im talking about balance and game difficulty, with both things being entirely non reliant on money. The same thing i can say for another f2p game even though its pvp - Blacklight Retribution is the middle ground in terms of time to kill between call of duty and halo both requiring good and steady aim, while keeping to a certain realism and not requiring a full mag to kill ppl. For me atleast this is a really important aspect of game difficulty and should be kept as a priority in any game.

[Excitonex]

Nerfs are needed sometimes. If you've ever tried running any sort of tabletop RPG like Dungeons and Dragons you know what I'm talking about. You can't have Ralph McKillingmachine in a game with Toby the Tame and have them fight together without some serious in-game number fudging. You have to dial back Ralph's power until Toby has caught up otherwise Toby is going to quit. Then Ralph, who has no friends to play with now, also quits. Then what are we left with?

[liavalenth]

Nerfs are needed sometimes. If you've ever tried running any sort of tabletop RPG like Dungeons and Dragons you know what I'm talking about. You can't have Ralph McKillingmachine in a game with Toby the Tame and have them fight together without some serious in-game number fudging. You have to dial back Ralph's power until Toby has caught up otherwise Toby is going to quit. Then Ralph, who has no friends to play with now, also quits. Then what are we left with?

OR you improve Toby's power to be equal to Ralph. For some reason decreasing power of the stronger instead of increasing the power of the weaker is the standard tactic. If you recall, many people prefer Pathfinder to D&D 3.5 because they increased the power of the non-spellcasters to decrease the gap between them. They did not decrease the power of spellcasters by much - if any.

 

EDIT: Sorry, had to get that in before more posts showed up.

 

Anyway, I do not believe that 'difficult' is the word that should be used in this type of thread. I believe this because, most of the time, people think 'if the game is too easy weaken the player, or give the enemy more HP/damage'. But those are not the solutions that are wanted, at least in my case and seem to be not wanted by the people who start these threads. What we want is more 'variety of challenges'. I want enemies that require special tactics, not bullet sponges. As mentioned above, add hazards that are dangerous, and can be used to our advantage.

 

I remember when I started with Mag I thought Pull would be cool to draw enemies into obstacles, but as that you cannot deal any noticeable amount of damage that way I found out Pull really is not useful for anything except pulling allies to you. As that pulling allies to you does not come up as useful often enough, I seldom take Pull with me.

Edited May 21, 2013 by liavalenth

[Eyro]

 

Artificial difficulty is not fun...

 

 

Seriously, how many times do I have to say that? The game doesn't get any more fun if it takes a magazine to kill a single enemy. Give enemies more damaging attacks, but have them telegraph them so a skilled played can avoid them. Create more environmental hazards that we can fall into, or use to our advantage against enemies. Increase the usability of wallrunning in combat by having enemies use more projectile weapons, promoting being mobile instead of hiding behind cover all the time.

 

Don't just double enemy health and attack strength...

Then the problem isn't difficulty, it's content. Then you're correct in that regard.

[Excitonex]

OR you improve Toby's power to be equal to Ralph. For some reason decreasing power of the stronger instead of increasing the power of the weaker is the standard tactic. If you recall, many people prefer Pathfinder to D&D 3.5 because they increased the power of the non-spellcasters to decrease the gap between them. They did not decrease the power of spellcasters by much - if any.

 

EDIT: Sorry, had to get that in before more posts showed up.

 

Anyway, I do not believe that 'difficult' is the word that should be used in this type of thread. I believe this because, most of the time, people think 'if the game is too easy weaken the player, or give the enemy more HP/damage'. But those are not the solutions that are wanted, at least in my case and seem to be not wanted by the people who start these threads. What we want is more variety of difficulty. Enemies that require special tactics, not bullet spunges. Hazards that are dangerous, and can be used to our advantage. I remember when I started with Mag I though Pull would be cool to draw enemies into obstacles, but as that you cannot deal any noticable amount of damage that way I found out Pull really is not useful for anything except pulling allies to you.

I wouldn't speak as to what "many people prefer" but I do know that dialing back power is used more commonly because making everyone more powerful doesn't always lead to a game that's more fun.  How do you expect to buff Ash to make him equal to Trinity's near-invulnerability? Frost's Snowglobe has to be accounted for in every single boss fight for the rest of Warframe's existence. Every fight that is meant to challenge players will have to have a way to overpower the globe but still be doable without it. This is at the heart of why nerfs are needed. Not every group wants to run a Frost for every fight from now until the end of Warframe. Please note this is just an example. I'm not trying to target Frost specifically, it just shows my point well.

[liavalenth]

I wouldn't speak as to what "many people prefer" but I do know that dialing back power is used more commonly because making everyone more powerful doesn't always lead to a game that's more fun.

While improving everyones power 'doesn't always lead to a game that's more fun', weakening everyone also 'doesn't always lead to a game that's more fun'. My point is that both choices must be considered in all cases. Do not just assume that nerfing is the only action that can be taken on any specific ability. Nerfing some abilities is required, but it should not be the default solution to a problem.

 

Weakening players in order to increase difficulty works much the same way as improving the enemy HP/damage. Yes it makes the game more difficult, but not more enjoyable.

 

EDIT: After some thinking I realized this is completely off topic. I see no point in arguing your other points, which are off topic, here. They had much validity to them, I do not mean to say that they were wrong without argument, but this is not the place for it.

Edited May 21, 2013 by liavalenth

[Argoms]

Then the problem isn't difficulty, it's content. Then you're correct in that regard.

It's both in a way. Enemies/current mechanics can be tweaked to encourage this sort of thing. For example- we could add consequences for both players and enemies falling off cliffs instead of just letting them respawn at their last safe location. Grineer could use bolt weapons instead of hitscan so that suppressive fire actually creates visible cutoff areas and strafing them becomes viable. However, more content/variety would also be great, yeah.

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

 

And im really sorry, but ill have to give an example of good game difficulty with me3. There for example for the experienced player the most fun difficulty was gold(out of bronze, silver, gold and platinum) because there that balance of just enough damage to kill stuff fast with most weapons without overkill was observed. When playing on gold you didnt waste damage, nor did you waste ammo on bullet sponges. 

 

What? No bullet sponges in ME3? Srsly, ME3 has the worst coop balance ever.

Edited May 21, 2013 by 3XT3RM1NATUS