Improving Convenience Mods: The Why And How

[krisp]

I feel like these forums have their heads so far up their asses with all the whining and emotional knee-jerking that we're missing out on some good discussion about issues in game mechanics that currently exist but no one pays attention to.

 

Let's look at the mod situation. Specifically, warframe mods. Currently, there is a wide variety of mods available to warframes, all of which are restricted by 2 things: drain amount and mod slots. At max rank, there's not a huge variety in drain costs on most mods, and if you want to use all of your mods on max rank you won't have enough drain to occupy all of your slots.

 

The issue, as it stands, is that all mods are considered by the game to have the same viability and are treated the same as eachother. To the game, a Quick Rest rank 5 has the same priority as a Redirection rank 5. The problem is that one of these is much more important to a player than the other. Which brings us to a discrepancy: there are mods that directly influence the statistics of your powers and/or resources, allowing you to be more durable and deal more damage/sustain your abilities for longer on the field. And then there's mods that are useful situationally, but offer no direct stat increase and/or do not improve your warframe in actual combat.

 

Mods such as:

Quick Rest

Thief's Wit

Marathon

Enemy Sense

Handspring

(arguably) Retribution

and I'm sure there's more to come.

 

These should be by far the least used mods, and that is in part thanks to the game putting them on the same importance level as a Focus, Redirection or Flow. To me as a player, this doesn't strike me as solid design work. It leaves me wanting to use them, because they are useful, but unable to because I have so many "mandatory" mods that make me more powerful that I can't afford to miss out on. It's a feeling I've taken to call "pigeonholing", and I define it as the situation where you're asked to choose between convenient/engaging gameplay and efficient/boring gameplay. Of course you're going to choose the latter, and most people will, but the decision is an awful one and should be avoided as much as possible.

 

That was the why, as in the why it needs improving. What follows is the how, or the suggestions section.

 

Suggestion #1: null polarity

 

How it works: let's take the mods I've listed above. Should you place one of them in a polarized slot (including and not limited to skill polarities), the mod will now cost 0 drain. Otherwise, it works as usual.

 

Effects:: first, it broadens the build diversity of a warframe. You can now run around with less skills (not like people weren't doing that to begin with) and have more options on your approach. Fast, weapon-based "scout" builds will now be viable. Second, for new players warframes that are not supercharged, it increases the tangible power gain (i.e. you feel like you're growing as you find mods instead of levelling up, since some of them are free to equip). Third, it encourages more careful balancing as players now will have more of a reason to ditch some of their less useful skills. But I see that as a good thing. Fourth, it allows for attributing greater value to present and future convenience mods. People won't sigh as often when they find yet another Thief's Wit.

 

Suggestion #2: allow for dual fusion

 

How it works: Dual Fusion (working name) is the combining of stats from 2 different mods. Something like this was already in place before Update 7(mods with multiple stats), and it was the only way I'd ever use Loot Radar. Bring it back. The bonuses should of course be smaller than with pure versions, perhaps allowing us to choose the proportions, but I'm here to offer ideas, not to tell you how to design a system.

 

Example: Dual Fusing Redirection with Enemy Sense will result in a rank 1 (up from rank 0) mod that costs as much as a Rank 1 Redirection (or inherits whichever cost is higher) but has the stats of a Rank 0 Redirection and a Rank 0 Enemy Sense. The idea here is that by Rank 10 you will have a combined Rank 5 + Rank 5 that costs 4 less drain than the cost of both mods together, and one less mod slot.

 

Effects: for one, it gives players a reason to max certain mods. It also allows for greater customization for efficiency, which increases the system's depth. The price will remain high, which leads to a more long-term goal. There might be a few kinks that need figuring out, but it will add a lot of customization.

 

 

That's all for now. I'm trying not to include any suggestions I haven't thought through properly, but I'm open to further comments and criticism from the community. Do try to keep it civil and constructive, though. No one's out to steal your fun.

Edited May 23, 2013 by krisp

[c_man_ninja_gun]

That's a really cool idea.

[White_Raven]

I like the dual fusion idea.

[honeybadger]

Basically, mods that do not directly increase your combat effectiveness need to cost less than those that do. Good ideas, but if we could get a max rank radar for 2 or 3 mod cap...I'd use it.

[Tabtree]

Im a little skeptical about null polarity.... Rank 10 redirection for free??? or anything else at full rank? I think thats a bit overboard.....

 

As for the Dual mods, would dual mod fusion only be between those of the same polarity slot? and how would that work with ability mods?

[Lane]

So basically you are hoping for more Maxed out Mods being able to be installed at the same time now with all of the Mod costs reduced to a certain extent.

Your 'new players' tangible gain' argument is invalid because these 'new players' would not even have Maxed Out Mods in the first place. The Orokin Reactors/ Catalysts are made for a reason. If players are able to complete all Missions at ease what is the point of supercharging in the first place?

If you ask me I would rather have the ability to tune the Mods to a certain level that they have unlocked (that means you can use the Mod at any level once Maxed in order to fit it into your build).

So no, not IMO at the very least.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Pull

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I'd like the return of dual mods.  Perhaps have the limitation that to fuse the mods, they must be of the same polarity and that polarity cannot be "scratch" (can't fuse abilities).  The best way honestly is probably just to finalCost = cost1+cost2+1 or something.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[krisp]

Im a little skeptical about null polarity.... Rank 10 redirection for free??? or anything else at full rank? I think thats a bit overboard.....

You didn't read carefully enough. I'm not talking about Redirection. I'm talking about the mods that no one uses.

 

 

So basically you are hoping for more Maxed out Mods being able to be installed at the same time now with all of the Mod costs reduced to a certain extent.

Your 'new players' tangible gain' argument is invalid because these 'new players' would not even have Maxed Out Mods in the first place. The Orokin Reactors/ Catalysts are made for a reason. If players are able to complete all Missions at ease what is the point of supercharging in the first place?

If you ask me I would rather have the ability to tune the Mods to a certain level that they have unlocked (that means you can use the Mod at any level once Maxed in order to fit it into your build).

So no, not IMO at the very least.

1. I am hoping to not have to sacrifice Marathon for the sake of Focus. This is not the same as having "more Maxed Out Mods". Please read more carefully.

 

2. I did not imply the mod had to be maxed out in order to be free. Please read more carefully.

 

3. Orokin reactors are there as an incentive to purchase, to make the game easier and to make yourself feel more powerful. It is not a binary function. Making the game easier does not mean you've turned off all the enemies, just like making the game harder doesn't mean making it impossible.

 

4. This is a discussion, not a debate. Please stop using condescending prepubescent statements like "your argument is invalid".

 

 

 

I'd like the return of dual mods.  Perhaps have the limitation that to fuse the mods, they must be of the same polarity and that polarity cannot be "scratch" (can't fuse abilities).  The best way honestly is probably just to finalCost = cost1+cost2+1 or something.

Mhm, something like that. But it won't work if you raise costs overall, since atm the problem is drain, not slots, whereas fusing and raising costs would work towards having more slots. Though I guess you could stick the fused mods into a polarity slot and get more benefit out of it, but it's pretty limiting if you don't have a slot of that particular polarity.

Edited May 23, 2013 by krisp

[Lane]

You didn't read carefully enough. I'm not talking about Redirection. I'm talking about the mods that no one uses.

 

 

1. I am hoping to not have to sacrifice Marathon for the sake of Focus. This is not the same as having "more Maxed Out Mods". Please read more carefully.

 

2. I did not imply the mod had to be maxed out in order to be free. Please read more carefully.

 

3. Orokin reactors are there as an incentive to purchase, to make the game easier and to make yourself feel more powerful. It is not a binary function. Making the game easier does not mean you've turned off all the enemies, just like making the game harder doesn't mean making it impossible.

 

4. This is a discussion, not a debate. Please stop using condescending prepubescent statements like "your argument is invalid".

 

 

 

Mhm, something like that. But it won't work if you raise costs overall, since atm the problem is drain, not slots, whereas fusing and raising costs would work towards having more slots. Though I guess you could stick the fused mods into a polarity slot and get more benefit out of it, but it's pretty limiting if you don't have a slot of that particular polarity.

Apologies if I have agitated your feelings with my occasional misuse of diction. I mean you no offense, lease calm down. I'm just citing out some of my point of views.

1) Importance to each Mod differs from person to person, warframe to warframe. Players prioritize the Mods that best benefit their Warframes. There are always 'sacrifices', and that is why the number of Mods you can install is fixed at 6, excluding the 4 ability slots.

2) I did not mean that way either. My point is that if your concern was that new players would not have enough slots to see the full potential of a weapon of a Warframe, that might have been for the fact that they have not yet Maxed out their Mods rather than not having sufficient slots.

3) Exactly. Orokin Reactors/ Catalysts improves the overall performance of the equipment. 'At ease' does not equate to 'turning off all enemies though'.

4) Once again, I'm not trying to debate over anything, but simply looking into your suggestions in my perspective.

P.S. You have got take other people's advice instead of outright justifying your points regardless. I feel like your tone is even more condescending than mine, had it ever existed.

Once again, I apologize for the inappropriateness of my word choice.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Pull

[krisp]

snip

Apology accepted. You'll have to excuse me as well, I react harshly on the internet. Dealing with one too many internet idiots has that effect on you, but I'm not one to be unreasonable once I know I'm not wasting my breath.

 

Let's do the run-down:

1. I've yet to see a (supercharged) warframe build that has everything it needs at max rank and can freely use some of the less prioritized mods. I'm very well aware there are sacrifices, the idea was that you shouldn't sacrifice power for convenience. I don't (personally) like the idea of doing 30% less damage on skills in exchange for seeing loot on my radar. This is applicable for any game.

 

2. New players aren't really part of the discussion, I was just listing any effect I could think of. Specifically, you're a new player, you find a Thief's Wit mod, you can use it without worrying about drain costs. Gives you a bit of breathing space, which is good.

 

3. It is my opinion that catalysts/reactors are a bit *too* important. Toning them down like this would not affect the incentive to such a degree that the devs would see a tangible revenue loss, because in the case of warframes they would still control how much access to power you had.

[ToeSama]

I think some of the "convenience mods" need to be cut out and implanted into the suits as a standard effect that increases with suit XP. Marathon is a waste of space as a mod, but a great concept over all. It also just makes sense that a level 30 suit would have more Stamina than a non level 30 suit.

 

Most mods like this only have 5 ranks, so making them part of suit paradigm instead of as mods would not only cut out useless bloat and allow players to focus on strengthening without sacrificing convenience, but would also fit well with ranking up per five levels due to the current level cap.

 

I also think some mods should become non level mods with a general effect for a moderate cost (5 or so points seems fair). Enemy Sense is an example of this. Enemy Radar is vastly superior an option even if it does eat your artifact slot. Why not let Enemy Sense have the same effect without leveling for a average cost. Instead of trading out my artifact slot, i'm trading a mod slot and a few points. Enemy detection would also increase the stealth gameplay aspect that has been sorely needing a boost.

[krisp]

I think some of the "convenience mods" need to be cut out and implanted into the suits as a standard effect that increases with suit XP. Marathon is a waste of space as a mod, but a great concept over all. It also just makes sense that a level 30 suit would have more Stamina than a non level 30 suit.

Probably, but we're likely not going to see this anytime soon. Devs usually hate cutting content that's already been worked on.

[ToeSama]

Probably, but we're likely not going to see this anytime soon. Devs usually hate cutting content that's already been worked on.

Then bring back portions of the old upgrade system for certain suit statistics like this. They can not like cutting content all they want. At the end of the day, Marathon and other mods with situational usage like it are placeholders for more powerful mods right now, and is about as annoying to pick up as useless yellow drops in Diablo 3. Taking content that is not used and implementing it in a different way is not removing it, just changing it, and most likely for the better.

Edited May 23, 2013 by ToeSama