[Discussion] Grind Versus Randomness

[rhoenix]

Since this issue has been building for a while, with symptoms appearing in many areas, I felt that it was the right time now to have this discussion regarding these mechanics in Warframe gameplay.

To begin with, I really like all the concepts in Warframe - the setting, the Tenno as endangered but determined soldiers waking up to re-fight an old war, the different factions, the gameplay itself, the Tenno Clans idea, and all the associated concepts. All of them are original, and make for a great setting, and a great gameplay experience.

However, lurking behind the concepts are how those concepts get implemented in-game, which brings us back to the two concepts at large: random number generated rewards (RNG for short), and grind-based rewards.

The reason these are both important is because both of them affect gameplay differently. RNG is more intended for the feeling of discovery; of finding and locating rare and interesting stuff that may be very difficult or impossible to acquire otherwise. Grinding is more for the feeling of accomplishment; of working toward a far-off goal with plans for the future.

The problem is how those two mechanics are currently weighted within Warframe. RNG is used to decide drops from enemies, mission rewards, what Alert missionss appear and when, when the Stalker attacks. Grind is used purely for leveling one's Warframe or weapons, and now, for Dojo room-building and research.

By themselves, these concepts aren't bad - but with the past few updates, I feel that too much emphasis has been placed on RNG-based rewards, and not enough on grind-based rewards, and I feel this comes back to how things are classified.

Most items (warframes, weapons, and sentinels) are things that once earned, you'll likely use often. They aren't one-time use items, so it makes sense for their power levels to be determined by grind mechanics.

Dropped items are mostly decided through RNG, which by itself is fine - but when too many items are determined by RNG, it makes the player feel as if they're at the mercy of the game, rather than feeling more empowered by the experience.

The best way to combat this, both now and in preparation for future updates, is to give alternate means for players to acquire certain items. For items such as Warframes and weapons, grind-based mechanics work best for these, as a player would have a slow, but visible, means of progression toward a goal, instead of running missions over and over again, and hoping their luck strikes.

For more rare items that are not used for anything other than enhancing a single player's experience (such as Mods), RNG still works for this system, as long as it's not used to determine the acquisition rates of too many items. If this is done, players then feel as if what they do makes a real difference in terms of how they acquire things.

If there are items that the developers still want to be rare, and only available through RNG, my suggestion would be to give them a better chance to drop from certain rare enemies per faction. This would keep the mechanical nature of the RNG intact, while giving players something visible to chase through a given level - and it would also encourage players to explore more of a given level as well.

TL;DR VERSION:

- Let's discuss how to improve the balance between RNG and Grind in this game to be better balanced, and provide a better overall gameplay experience to the player.

[neKroMancer]

Most games that borrow RPG element have to way to acquire items in the game.

- RNG (uncertainty)

- Grind (certainty)

That's basic idea of it. However, I agree that Warframe has becoming more and more dependent of RNG as the game grows. The grind component is confined within the frame and weapon level and mastery level. There is nothing else in this category while acquisition of new weapon (Glaive, Stalker set, Prime set) and all Warframes have been based on RNG. With more things piling up with future updates, this trend is scary since DE is now relying on RNG far too much.

At an extent, I think that some content should be a bit more exclusive than others through usage of RNG in order to feel 'awesome' when you acquire it. However, using double RNG to hide some in order to create exclusiveness probably be a bit too much. One example is the void key content.

Void key content is practically two fold RNG. You need to get the key randomly from missions. The items you got from the void mission are also random. This practice make it uncomfortable since we're now playing with two random element in order to get something. Much like playing slot machine and expect 777 to appear two times in a row. All or nothing. Making the RNG more favorable is better than the actual grind. Grind is boring. When you know you can get something for certain then it's no longer playing, it's working. My proposal is to keep grind as level system and mastery rank. Rigged the RNG, similar to what DE did with the Cronus droprate is the way to deal with the problem. Partially.

I'll use how to acquire the void key/alert mission as an example. This is just an example, not a real proposition.

Player login into the game and instead of hoping for void key as a reward, he has a message from Lotus informing him that there is an anomaly within Uranus region which require attention. The Lotus wants him to investigate. This create sense of purpose and narrative experience. RNG has a part deciding which region will it take place.

The player dives into Uranus doing multiple missions helping the Lotus pinpoint the location of the anomaly which seems to be from Grinneer hidden research lab. Once the player reach the lab, the Lotus announce that threre is Void key on this vessel, it's the source of anomaly. Retrieve it back to base. This part is half grind, half RNG. The RNG part is about how many missions until Lotus can pinpoint the anomaly. The grind part follows the RNG. A player did his quota and got reward. It also urge players to play other missions which are not defense and assassination while adding a sense of certainty with RNG to diversify things up.

The alert system will also benefit from this method. What if you can increase the chance of making alert with ? appearing into your favor by playing? When you login, there is side mission bar. Something like killing 100 Grineer, melee 100 infest, etc. the more missions you do, the more higher chance of alert with? appearing on your map. It's still RNG but knowing that you can make it more favorable seems like a good way to spend your time. RNG still governs the actual item droprate though.

RNG isn't truely random, it can be used to make better experience out of the game. Using it as a sole method of acquiring new content is plainly a bad idea. Rig it and mix it with grind is the way, I think.

[rhoenix]

Agreed with all the points raised so far, Nekro. Being able to affect the drop rate, or the Alert item generation rate by completing tangible objectives (e.g. kill x of units from faction y to increase rare drops for 1 hour) would go a long way toward helping a player feel more in control over what happens in the game.

Another idea might be to introduce Artifacts and/or Mods (preferably for the Sentinel) that would affect item drop rate, thus increasing the chance of getting a rare item as a drop by a percentage.