Ashs Bladestorm Devstream 60 (Thank You Scott)

[AKKILLA]

Shuriken

-Damage scaling off Melee/Secondary would make bleeding too strong due to bleeding effect that can bypass armor and shield if your base damage is in the thousands.

-Better Tracking, why? I don't think it should be easy mode. It does what it's supposed to do and doesn't need to be easier than it already is.

-passive free teleport to enemies Bleeding from shuriken-- WHY? Random effects like this make me question this thread.

 

Smoke Screen

-smoke screen chokes enemies in AoE- I wouldn't mind a little more than just staggering enemeis.

-smoke shadow auto cloaks allies no matter range. WHY? This makes no sense at all. This is like people begging for freeaim teleport just because they want it, and no for real good reasons.

-enemies choked in clouds open up to finishers- Seems like a copy of Radial Blind. This is what I mean by redundancy. Excalibur already does this and now we want Ash to have the same thing.

 

Teleport

 

-Teleport stuns enemies more efficient and effective- This doesn't make sense. Teleport is not supposed to stun. Ash basically sneaks up on a target when he teleports to deliver a finisher. I don't see where these random stuns are coming from.

-free aim teleport with short range 5m (More or less)- 5m is pretty short so why not just walk over? Seems kinda random with these freeaim suggestion.

-Bled enemies by shuriken can be free teleported to.... ....

 

Blade Storm

I honestly think that sounds like an of Hysteria gone bad.

 

Press 4 to win isn't going to go away. Damage scaling might be an issue, but some frames like Frost, Oberon, and Volt will always being nuking enemies, unless they change the ultimates completely.

 

As far as I am concerned, I have been playing Ash since the beginning of my Warframe journey. Ash is the first frame that I made, with Loki being the starter frame. I was looking for another stealth frame with offensive capability for a change and Ash was the answer. You can check my profile history and see all the complaining threads I made about the dumb clones. Anyway, I have to disagree; he was the way DE designed him. Watch the trailer and that was the original concept of Ash ( before he had his blades), which he continuously teleport around and destroyed enemies. So, I don't think the idea of an assassin that is capable of teleporting around to do AoE damage is a stupid idea.

 

Regarding Ash's spirit, he already lost it when the clones were introduced. He was supposed to be an assassin that picked off enemies one by one, but since so many people complained that it was too slow and they couldn't save their teammates in time De had to comply and sped things up with these random clones out of nowhere. DE could have simply put a cancel option by pressing 4 again, or those people, who used Blade Storm at inappropriate times, could have learned how to play Ash properly. But who knows what this community wants? They wanted a nuke, and now they want an interactive ultimate, which undoubtedly would be slower.

 

Came thru to defame the thread I see.

 

I dont know if ppl actualy thoroughly read the ideas of OP or not but it seems you are skipping key reasons to why these ideas are as follows. 

That or You are really not a Ash main.

 

-Shuriken does not always track and hit its Targets and Seeking Shuriken is ok but could be slightly better. The Melee/secondary mod scaling is a optional choice and only one should be chosen not both. Which ever makes Logic to scale shuriken off of  but i would say melee since Ash is a melee Frame.

 

-Smoke Screen having a choke cloud and the function being similar to Radial Blind share similarities as Irradiating Disarm and Choas soo I see no reason to Why not? Rest opens up finishers in a smaller area. Soo a medium sized Cloud is unacceptable? The auto cloak feature for Smoke Shadow was my idea and i spoke to Koga about this since there are a few down falls to increased Range on SS it will still misss the whole squad because of cast animation speed and allies running around, this would function better and its a Team based idea why are You folks soo negative towards good Ideas for Ash?! w.e too each there own opinion idc

 

-Teleport has a terrible pin point accurate aim system, not all Teleport effectively stun enemies granting You that Finisher Kill, why not a small Cloud that drops directly on that enemy you Marked for Teleport. The cloud for teleport should only stun that enemy only. Free aim teleport is for the sake of evasive maneuvers You seriously seem like a new Ash player and maybe new to playing Ninja games, Mortal Kombat doesnt count!

If You do play MK then refer to Smokes short range teleport. Its like a5-10m teleport dash it helps move in and move out maneuver and confuse.

Teleport is already a ability thats barely used why not offer something to make this ability more used and enjoyable? You guys Troll about Press 4 to Win then when a god idea to hep other abilities come along yall say thats a bad idea its too OP. Make up your minds -_-

 

-Bladestorm, i dont even wanna talk about this as we all know this is being worked on and we all know the deal about how most of us feel.

The important thing here is the rest of his kit which we dont know if it will be touched or not.

Your ideology is subjective, has no sense of Real Ninja enthusiast. A supposable Ninja fan that doesnt like a Ninja Frame having Clones?

 

Idk I give up on convincing some of You kids but My idea stands side by side with Koga. Koga is by far one of the Biggest Ash fanatics in Warframe. I have met a ton of Ash fans but none like Koga.

 

I have spoken to Koga and learned alot from him, he is pretty oldschool and grew up on old games like Shinobi Ninja Gaiden Tenchu Strider Metal Gear etc. He has a wide range and knowledge of Ninja games and his concepts fall in line with Ash perfectly.

The redundancy complaints from Folks like Yourself which your not the first to say this. Alot of Frames have the same concepts soo no point in Your negative feed embrace it. Does LANDSLIDE make SLASH DASH redundant?

How about IRRADIATING DISARM does it ruin CHAOS? Maybe the upcoming WUKONG makes ZEPHYR ASH and LOKI redundant with his CLOUD WALKER which may hurt stealth and mobility but i dont see you fools trippin about this.

 

This was a hard thought up and liked thread, and its been surviving before Devstream 60s initial anouncement of Bladestorm rework.

Most likely DE got inspiration from here and that gives us a sense of success (If DE gets it right that is)

All the said functions for his Kit have a reason, if You dont understand take a nice read you may better understand then

[(XBOX)lotus503]

Came thru to defame the thread I see.

 

I dont know if ppl actualy thoroughly read the ideas of OP or not but it seems you are skipping key reasons to why these ideas are as follows. 

That or You are really not a Ash main.

 

-Shuriken does not always track and hit its Targets and Seeking Shuriken is ok but could be slightly better. The Melee/secondary mod scaling is a optional choice and only one should be chosen not both. Which ever makes Logic to scale shuriken off of  but i would say melee since Ash is a melee Frame.

 

-Smoke Screen having a choke cloud and the function being similar to Radial Blind share similarities as Irradiating Disarm and Choas soo I see no reason to Why not? Rest opens up finishers in a smaller area. Soo a medium sized Cloud is unacceptable? The auto cloak feature for Smoke Shadow was my idea and i spoke to Koga about this since there are a few down falls to increased Range on SS it will still misss the whole squad because of cast animation speed and allies running around, this would function better and its a Team based idea why are You folks soo negative towards good Ideas for Ash?! w.e too each there own opinion idc

 

-Teleport has a terrible pin point accurate aim system, not all Teleport effectively stun enemies granting You that Finisher Kill, why not a small Cloud that drops directly on that enemy you Marked for Teleport. The cloud for teleport should only stun that enemy only. Free aim teleport is for the sake of evasive maneuvers You seriously seem like a new Ash player and maybe new to playing Ninja games, Mortal Kombat doesnt count!

If You do play MK then refer to Smokes short range teleport. Its like a5-10m teleport dash it helps move in and move out maneuver and confuse.

Teleport is already a ability thats barely used why not offer something to make this ability more used and enjoyable? You guys Troll about Press 4 to Win then when a god idea to hep other abilities come along yall say thats a bad idea its too OP. Make up your minds -_-

 

-Bladestorm, i dont even wanna talk about this as we all know this is being worked on and we all know the deal about how most of us feel.

The important thing here is the rest of his kit which we dont know if it will be touched or not.

Your ideology is subjective, has no sense of Real Ninja enthusiast. A supposable Ninja fan that doesnt like a Ninja Frame having Clones?

 

Idk I give up on convincing some of You kids but My idea stands side by side with Koga. Koga is by far one of the Biggest Ash fanatics in Warframe. I have met a ton of Ash fans but none like Koga.

 

I have spoken to Koga and learned alot from him, he is pretty oldschool and grew up on old games like Shinobi Ninja Gaiden Tenchu Strider Metal Gear etc. He has a wide range and knowledge of Ninja games and his concepts fall in line with Ash perfectly.

The redundancy complaints from Folks like Yourself which your not the first to say this. Alot of Frames have the same concepts soo no point in Your negative feed embrace it. Does LANDSLIDE make SLASH DASH redundant?

How about IRRADIATING DISARM does it ruin CHAOS? Maybe the upcoming WUKONG makes ZEPHYR ASH and LOKI redundant with his CLOUD WALKER which may hurt stealth and mobility but i dont see you fools trippin about this.

 

This was a hard thought up and liked thread, and its been surviving before Devstream 60s initial anouncement of Bladestorm rework.

Most likely DE got inspiration from here and that gives us a sense of success (If DE gets it right that is)

All the said functions for his Kit have a reason, if You dont understand take a nice read you may better understand then

That's the thing he is fine the way he is, there are only two real legitimate criticisms of Ash in my opinion.

 

1. He doesn't offer much to "the group" = Resolved by adding range to his augment.

2. Bladestorm animation is boring =  I am all for spicing it up as long as it doesn't lose core function.

 

 

And yeah I have an Ash Prime with both Arcane Trickery's maxed, I have dumped much time and platinum to get him where I want him to be. That is why I shudder at these rework threads, I see folks asking to ruin what I have spent time and money tuning.

 

In some cases the ideas are so different it would be better implemented into a new frame vs literally wrecking what I and others have spent time and money tuning. 

 

In short I like the way Ash Plays and i'm not trying to morph him into some idealistic childhood view of a Ninja. 

and I don't understand the passive aggressive hostility to opinions counter to your own.

 

What if I told you DE was going to give you exactly what your asking for?

 

Only its a new frame called something different with abilities named something different? would that satisfy you? I somehow doubt it because you wouldn't be changing the way other folks play.

[AKKILLA]

That's the thing he is fine the way he is, there are only two real legitimate criticisms of Ash in my opinion.

 

1. He doesn't offer much to "the group" = Resolved by adding range to his augment.

2. Bladestorm animation is boring =  I am all for spicing it up as long as it doesn't lose core function.

 

 

And yeah I have an Ash Prime with both Arcane Trickery's maxed, I have dumped much time and platinum to get him where I want him to be. That is why I shudder at these rework threads, I see folks asking to ruin what I have spent time and money tuning.

 

In some cases the ideas are so different it would be better implemented into a new frame vs literally wrecking what I and others have spent time and money tuning. 

 

In short I like the way Ash Plays and i'm not trying to morph him into some idealistic childhood view of a Ninja. 

and I don't understand the passive aggressive hostility to opinions counter to your own.

 

What if I told you DE was going to give you exactly what your asking for?

 

Only its a new frame called something different with abilities named something different? would that satisfy you? I somehow doubt it because you wouldn't be changing the way other folks play.

 

Uuuh dude, You must not Hear Koga and My preaching of Arcane Trickery?  He was the main reason I started playing Ash with Arcane Trickery.

He claims to been running it since when Raids appeared. I  too have spent time into getting some and some plat as well, but i was capable of farming 3 Trickerys and trading 2 Strikes for it. I dont have 2 Maxed Yet but Koga has been running 2 Maxed since I first joined his Clan.

 

He even has this fantastic build that makes You Stealth longer then Loki, tho it makes You squishy like a Loki and thats totally fine because every game You will take the least damage. You will be stacking from 17 secs smoke screen to Trickery, BS costing 25 energy and ss costing 9 you will be efficient and a team player utilizing this Build.

 

 

Koga is a Master Ash and I never seen an Ash player use this type of build. He showed me the generic Bladestorm spam build and the smoke screen build along with the shuriken build and most Ash players go Tanky while this build is very Squishy but keeps you Longer Invisibile then Loki with a better effect cuz of Trickery ignoring Nullifiers and Stalker

[(PSN)RNickS_BRASIL]

Did i hear wrong or Steve say something about ASH on the last devstream ? 

[Morty2989]

Please stop making frames a chore to play. "Interactivity" is the boogie man and I'm very much afraid of him.

 

(And before someone tries to be clever and call me lazy or say I don't want to play the game myself, I don't play Ash for how good he may or may not be. I play him for the sheer fun of it all. I hated Mesa's peacemaker aimbotting the entire level but the new tweak doesn't work hardly at all yet everyone is clamoring for more).

[AKKILLA]

Please stop making frames a chore to play. "Interactivity" is the boogie man and I'm very much afraid of him.

 

(And before someone tries to be clever and call me lazy or say I don't want to play the game myself, I don't play Ash for how good he may or may not be. I play him for the sheer fun of it all. I hated Mesa's peacemaker aimbotting the entire level but the new tweak doesn't work hardly at all yet everyone is clamoring for more).

 

Yeah I wish the best and Love this Game but DE did a Terrible Job with Mesas Peacemaker

Some Interactivity it has huh? Instead of allowing Mesa the ability to Move in Peacemaker they keep her a stationary Turret and Claim PM is now Interactive. 

 

I pray they dont ruin My dreams cuz I sense a bad storm coming, a really bad storm....

BLADESTORM

[Haxwell]

Another Ash main here. I'd have to disagree with any concept that leans bladestorm towards a single-target attack. -1

Edited November 1, 2015 by Haxwell

[AKKILLA]

Another Ash main here. I'd have to disagree with any concept that leans bladestorm towards a single-target attack. -1

 

Who said Bladestorm would target one enemy? I dont recall Koga making that statement

[Haxwell]

Who said Bladestorm would target one enemy? I dont recall Koga making that statement

 

All the videos he put as references in his original post are single target attacks. Forgive me for assuming as such.

[AKKILLA]

All the videos he put as references in his original post are single target attacks. Forgive me for assuming as such.

 

That is because they are references. Koga and I have searched all over the internet for an ability similar to Bladestorm to interpret the idea he wants.

Ofcoarse we are not designers, but there is one video that another Member in the community posted that is pretty accurate to what Bladestorm could look and function like.

 

This video is pretty close to what Bladestorm lookd like currently without the Vomit Cam issue. As seen here this Shadow Strike Chain ability is just like Bladestorm rendering the user invincible during the Kill animations. I dont suggest the animations for BS be same I just agree with how it works.

The QtE is nice and the FoV to chain to other enemies is nice but the animations need to be simplistic yet appealing which is why Koga suggests a Teleporting Slash Dash style animations since it doesnt require much animation other then a slash dash teleport with his clones.

 

Doing all this research for Bladestorm we have come across a ton of similar Bladestorm abilities but figuring out how it will be implemented is up to DE

[Haxwell]

You could essentially point to any example of multiple melee executions in fast succession with some sort of shadow-walk mechanic and say the same thing, I played Shadow of Mordor a lot and really enjoyed the combat fluidity. Dunno if that would be transplantable into WF with the frailty of enemies.

[(PSN)RNickS_BRASIL]

This thread shouldn't be only about bladstorm , we should talk about relevant changes who make ASH more than bladstorm frame , EX ; change smoke screen make it by efficiency and if you smart boy come to say ohhhhh IS TOOO OP , ohhh too OP well just look at dat Hysteria ;) ( YES BAD ENGLISH )  

[AKKILLA]

This thread shouldn't be only about bladstorm , we should talk about relevant changes who make ASH more than bladstorm frame , EX ; change smoke screen make it by efficiency and if you smart boy come to say ohhhhh IS TOOO OP , ohhh too OP well just look at dat Hysteria ;) ( YES BAD ENGLISH )  

 

Hey Im all for everything OP tbh I hate NERFS and people who welcome it. If it was up to Me, all Warframes would be OP in there own way and would offer something great to the squad. No Warframe should be mediocre and underpowered or over shadowed by another frame.

[enJohneering]

It's really just about balance. If you want all frames to be playable but let's say... half of them are stronger than the others, you have three options:

 

NERF the upper half to match the lower

BUFF the lower half to match the upper

BOTH adjust the upper and lower halves to some sort of median strength

 

A lot of games choose almost exclusively the 2nd option and create a sort of power creep that makes anything more than a few months old practically worthless. If you play these games, you will constantly chase the latest gear just to play well. DE generally doesn't do this. Unfortunately, because of this they have a tendency to overreact when they think they've made something too powerful and nerf it into oblivion. 

 

Our hope is that this change will preserve the invincibility and damage of his ult while giving us more control. 

 

 

You could essentially point to any example of multiple melee executions in fast succession with some sort of shadow-walk mechanic and say the same thing, I played Shadow of Mordor a lot and really enjoyed the combat fluidity. Dunno if that would be transplantable into WF with the frailty of enemies.

Keep in mind that all of those dudes were slow tanky melee units. Taking out 10 of those is a lot more useful than say... 10 moas. Ash is powerful but already could use more utility and in that video it took a LONG time just to kill 16 targets. I could clear 16 heavies with my shotgun in that amount of time or less. The look is perfect, but Ash would really need to be able to stay either invisible or invincible for a time after his kills (channeling might come in handy here) so that he get's something from that energy drain other than a cool animation. 

 

And/Or... he could get a AOE cloud with SS that gives him longer invis and makes BS cheeper or more effective, that would also go a long way to making his ultimate useful. 

[Tenedranox]

This thread shouldn't be only about bladstorm , we should talk about relevant changes who make ASH more than bladstorm frame , EX ; change smoke screen make it by efficiency and if you smart boy come to say ohhhhh IS TOOO OP , ohhh too OP well just look at dat Hysteria ;) ( YES BAD ENGLISH )  

This thread have been a complete rework suggestion, i also dont know why koga delete the other stuff, but u may have a look at (PS4) GR13V4NC3's thread (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516582-a-true-collaborative-ash-rework/), which have been made together with koga or at mine (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/525900-the-aspect-of-smoke-full-ash-rework-suggestion/ many other threads linked in the Intro section),

also im working with Grievance at a conglomerated thread.

[AKKILLA]

This thread have been a complete rework suggestion, i also dont know why koga delete the other stuff, but u may have a look at (PS4) GR13V4NC3's thread (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516582-a-true-collaborative-ash-rework/), which have been made together with koga or at mine (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/525900-the-aspect-of-smoke-full-ash-rework-suggestion/ many other threads linked in the Intro section),

also im working with Grievance at a conglomerated thread.

 

Yes indeed Dragon. This thread has actually come a long way as Yours and (PS4)GR13V4NC3.

Just 10 more likes I believe and this threads under POPULAR

[Tenedranox]

Well my thread is kinda dead, in the recent weeks, compared to this one here XD

[(PSN)RNickS_BRASIL]

Well my thread is kinda dead, in the recent weeks, compared to this one here XD

I think we all Ash fans should seed our ideas a little bit more , ill support your thread tenno my streght is with you XD

[AKKILLA]

I just started here in forums and its tough getting likes and people to understand and agree with you unless if You write format and sound professional along with understand the games meta balance and the frame you are suggesting ideas for in order for the community to feel your ideas better.

 

You need to understand what people like and everyone has different opinions and likes.

Its tough but I think Koga just has soo much passion for Ash but is very BOLD and proud about it, willing to Fight whoever over any remark about ASH IS TRASH  WHY PLAY ASH WHEN YOU COULD PLAY LOKI Puns from this communities under belly of elitist elicit Trolls. 

 

Ash has been Stamped the SOLO Frame which is a very Cheap title being a Space Ninja game online Multplayer MMO. You play solo if you want thats a choice but We usually always run in Squads with Clan members or randoms. Alot of the End Game meta requires Cooperative Crowd Control capabilities to offer Allies. 

 

You cant really offer anything bring Ash into a Raid and thats sad :( 

 

Looking at You Smoke Screen (ChokeClouds) xD

[Tenedranox]

I just started here in forums and its tough getting likes and people to understand and agree with you unless if You write format and sound professional along with understand the games meta balance and the frame you are suggesting ideas for in order for the community to feel your ideas better.

 

You need to understand what people like and everyone has different opinions and likes.

Its tough but I think Koga just has soo much passion for Ash but is very BOLD and proud about it, willing to Fight whoever over any remark about ASH IS TRASH  WHY PLAY ASH WHEN YOU COULD PLAY LOKI Puns from this communities under belly of elitist elicit Trolls. 

 

Ash has been Stamped the SOLO Frame which is a very Cheap title being a Space Ninja game online Multplayer MMO. You play solo if you want thats a choice but We usually always run in Squads with Clan members or randoms. Alot of the End Game meta requires Cooperative Crowd Control capabilities to offer Allies. 

 

You cant really offer anything bring Ash into a Raid and thats sad :( 

 

Looking at You Smoke Screen (ChokeClouds) xD

Totally agree

also, when u want to get likes etc...well post art, write [Concept Art Included] and ur thread will break the sky compared to threads without art.....

[AKKILLA]

Totally agree

also, when u want to get likes etc...well post art, write [Concept Art Included] and ur thread will break the sky compared to threads without art.....

 

Koga Never writes [Concept Art Included] He surprises all the time with Videos Gifs and Fan art. He showed me this Graffiti but Im waiting for him to draw some Warframe graffiti, he says he rather Paint a Wall cuz that would be more epic to Post and surely Make it on a Stream. Ive seen some of his murals and he is part of some graffiti crew in Florida thats well known Heres the Website link http://msgcartel.com/

Id love to see a Warframe Mural like this ^^^

[Tenedranox]

Holy.....

[AKKILLA]

Everyone who wishes to support Kogas Ash abilities like the original ideas that created this thread check out this link.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/541756-ashbladestorm-toggle-drain-mode/

It has Art from Fulcrvm the Prototype Concept Fan Artist and enough gifs and video references along with nice amount of info and ideas to each ability along with a Great Bladestorm concept. Please show love and support ty