Can We Get A Non-Sarcastic (Maybe Even Attempt Neutral) Summary?

[Meepsauce]

There's a few things that are fairly obvious.

 

The drop rates for Latron Receiver, Scythe Blade are bad. I got mine in two level one runs one after the other. I know a few others that have got the same. The fact that others have had to run so many shows there's bias in the drop rate though. This is quite unfair considering the amount of farm required and the fact the option to buy keys is available.

The fact the drop rates are so low will counteract the key exploit in a way, which would be shunned more had the drop rates not given this a rational reason. Wouldn't be very special if -everyone- suddenly had their prime gear regardless but it's quite unfair to those that did buy the keys for these things. We could have had the level III keys be rarer, but have those drop the rarer parts or have parts universal when it comes to building our items. The lack of a trading system right now gives nobody a bypass to get these parts quicker apart from buying keys.

The keys -are- renewable. They -can- be found from defense missions. But the scary thing here is people have done over a hundred runs. A hundred. Even with 4 people, take into account how many times you would have to run a mission, get lucky enough to get a key, and then run it with all of your other group members. Let alone the time investment this would require. 23 times minimum.

 

There's a strong bias towards clans that already have a lot of members. I can see this becoming a situation of "let's invite the masses and contribute and just use this one guild for all our future blueprint needs."

I think this takes out a lot from the sense of community in the update, in this situation the new research could have been a global event similar to the Frost Prime one - it practically is.

 

While the resource costs are steep for a Dojo, I think with the right members it's affordable. You're mainly going to want these for new blueprints, yet it costs significant amounts of resources and forma.

My issue is that this isn't just a one clan based thing, it's multiple. I think considering this, it takes a lot of the joy out of a tighter community rather than a big community that starts to sacrifice quality of member over quantity of members.

The resource costs seem almost unjustified in the case of smaller clans, yet the goal is virtually the same. Are we eventually going to have people leave a clan just to join another, buy the blueprints and then hop back in their old one? Not very "clan" or "community" based at all.

I also think the rush costs are ludicrous. I cannot justify those at all. I would rather the rushing would be encouraged so the community can establish what they want sooner after spreading the information, while the first clan to reach those milestones enjoys the prestige from their expenditure. It's a platinum sink for time, and for many sensible people, Warframe will always be there doing its thing, whether now or later; I'll get what I'm building, so why waste significant amounts of money that could be used for the Forma requirements on the future construction? Rushing is still an unjustified money sink for lack of patience.

 

With the introduction of these new resources, I think they're making it harder to get rare drops from bosses. I've run multiple times and had very dire luck, many times I wonder if this new resource is getting priority in the table. It would be nicer if things weren't suddenly requiring 10 orokin cells, 5 of other rare resources, etc. But 10+ runs on a lower level boss for one drop? Tedious. Not sure if this is just me, but this is my luck.

 

The Reaper Prime lacks a polarity slot. "Prime"; no polarity slot. Not sure why this is, I find it unusual we have a prime variant of a weapon that doesn't exist either, I'd assume this is the 'Good' version of the Hate in terms of alignment, but the charge attack for this is different.

 

I'm not perfect, nor is my opinion or summary ideal by any means. I understand DE need to make money and I understand this game is provided as "free to play". It's just that money can be made easier without making the consumer feel the need to cave in and fork out to bypass the intended grind. Please, make things more accessible to the average player. This forum feels much like "You don't -have- to spend platinum, it's not -that- hard to get, update is good" drowning out some of the more concerning, reasonable complaints.

I like DE, but I also like a game that isn't ruled by a section of founders struggling to relate to those who haven't had the platinum there to "fill the gap" between some of their grind or decisions. There are some dedicated players that may not fork out hundreds to roll around saying 'I can buy anything I want at will to bypass this', but those players still require attention. They are still people capable of providing to the wiki, building third party websites to help track alerts, and contributing to the community as a whole. Their contributions do not have to be in the form of money for them to be valuable players.

 

It's between making a more accessible game, or supporting those who will enjoy the game for as long as their funds or luck or circumstances benefit them over the "rabble".

Giving money for a free to play game is often a balance between it being affordable and having respect for the services offered. When someone buys a pack for 75 platinum, gets level 1 void keys and 5 Reaper handles, you can be sure that's a purchase they regret with no turnaround. Sure, they knew the risk, but they paid a price for their investment. Is that the sort of feeling you want to encourage in your consumer?

 

TL;DR: Let's try to get a cleaner focus on the issues here - drop rates are unfair, platinum impulse buys are encouraged with excessive grind or unfair drop rates with not enough payout, smaller clans need love too, lesser spending players need love too.

 

I didn't really want to type of a wall of text. Hopefully someone will at least read through this. I am expecting a storm like many threads before this, though.

[Hayden11121]

Not to mention I know from my experience what they are farming for is not worth it.

 

Let me put it this way.

Scindo > Hate  > Reaper Prime

See what I mean? People waist money for things that aren't even good.

 

Just a tidbit I felt I needed to throw into your wall of text.

[Nod_Off]

Not to mention I know from my experience what they are farming for is not worth it.

 

Let me put it this way.

Scindo > Hate  > Reaper Prime

See what I mean? People waist money for things that aren't even good.

 

Just a tidbit I felt I needed to throw into your wall of text.

This is true!

The only positive to the Reaper is speed, and armor pen.

[Endrance]

 

TL;DR: Let's try to get a cleaner focus on the issues here - drop rates are unfair, platinum impulse buys are encouraged with excessive grind or unfair drop rates with not enough payout, smaller clans need love too, lesser spending players need love too.

 

I didn't really want to type of a wall of text. Hopefully someone will at least read through this. I am expecting a storm like many threads before this, though.

Tell that to my 4-clan-army :D With luck, before the end of the year we will be able to finish our cross section *___*

[Hayden11121]

This is true!

The only positive to the Reaper is speed, and armor pen.

It doesn't penetrate armor. The Hate does. Just more proof that it's bad and this is what people want so bad.

[EclipsedHusky]

I tried the Scindo before the update and hated it. Love the Hate though. There is a difference between the "Best stats" and the most FUN weapons give you...

[Fjarri]

When I got a Forma BP from a tier 3, I was very disappointed in DE's obvious value in my efforts, for it is an insulting resource hog that is going to take out potatoes from us and they think thats what the hardest content is worth to us (and sadly for some, it is)

[Nixsy]

The whole drop rate and apparent forced platinum spending is getting a lot of players down. I know of at least 30 players that have constantly run void missions only to fail in receiving a desired drop so it strikes me as DE tried something new and possibly failed. What is left now is to see how they will react to all of this and hopefully remedy it.

 

As a personal side note: I do not rage at games. This recent update made me rage!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Nixsy

[Hayden11121]

I tried the Scindo before the update and hated it. Love the Hate though. There is a difference between the "Best stats" and the most FUN weapons give you...

That is not true.

 

So, as I've said on another forum, I tested it with other people, the Scindo and Reaper Prime swing the same.

 

But, with 50 damage less, that can be a big difference.

Let's add 150% for a max charge damage mod. That is now 50 + 150% = 50 + 75 = 125 damage less

Mixed with armor piercing *for the smart Tenno* at 90% so that is 50+ 90% = 50 + 45 = 95 + ^125 damage = 220 damage

Mixed with the infestations 300% vulnerability to most melee weapons = 50 + 300% = 50 + 150 = 200 damage less + the 220 from earlier = 420

Mixed with a fire mod if you potatoed and wanted fire, that is 50 + 90% *Max level heat charge* = 50 + 45 = 95 + 420 = 535

 

So, because you wanted to look cooler with a different skin, you can deal around 535 damage less to infested. That is a HUGE difference. Remove the 300% and then you have the damage rate for the others.

 

I have fun killing things, not having to slowly swing my weapon again and again to hurt them.

[Meepsauce]

Although we're on the topic of Reaper Prime balance, has anyone taken a look at the range? It seemed pretty big, but I haven't used the Scindo for a while. It's also a shame the Scindo is still the best weapon. But balance can always change so I haven't focused on that too much. It's harder for these people with 40 reaper handles to change the amount of investment they've put in.

[EclipsedHusky]

That is not true.

 

So, as I've said on another forum, I tested it with other people, the Scindo and Reaper Prime swing the same.

 

But, with 50 damage less, that can be a big difference.

Let's add 150% for a max charge damage mod. That is now 50 + 150% = 50 + 75 = 125 damage less

Mixed with armor piercing *for the smart Tenno* at 90% so that is 50+ 90% = 50 + 45 = 95 + ^125 damage = 220 damage

Mixed with the infestations 300% vulnerability to most melee weapons = 50 + 300% = 50 + 150 = 200 damage less + the 220 from earlier = 420

Mixed with a fire mod if you potatoed and wanted fire, that is 50 + 90% *Max level heat charge* = 50 + 45 = 95 + 420 = 535

 

So, because you wanted to look cooler with a different skin, you can deal around 535 damage less to infested. That is a HUGE difference. Remove the 300% and then you have the damage rate for the others.

 

I have fun killing things, not having to slowly swing my weapon again and again to hurt them.

Soooooo you're saying the only thing that makes this game fun to you is being able to kill everything as fast as you can cause you sat there doing a ton of math to figure out the max damage out put? That is your way of fun not mine. I enjoy the Hate and will continue enjoying it far more than the Scindo :3

[Belpharon]

There's a few things that are fairly obvious.

 

The drop rates for Latron Receiver, Scythe Blade are bad. I got mine in two level one runs one after the other. I know a few others that have got the same. The fact that others have had to run so many shows there's bias in the drop rate though. This is quite unfair considering the amount of farm required and the fact the option to buy keys is available.

The fact the drop rates are so low will counteract the key exploit in a way, which would be shunned more had the drop rates not given this a rational reason. Wouldn't be very special if -everyone- suddenly had their prime gear regardless but it's quite unfair to those that did buy the keys for these things. We could have had the level III keys be rarer, but have those drop the rarer parts or have parts universal when it comes to building our items. The lack of a trading system right now gives nobody a bypass to get these parts quicker apart from buying keys.

The keys -are- renewable. They -can- be found from defense missions. But the scary thing here is people have done over a hundred runs. A hundred. Even with 4 people, take into account how many times you would have to run a mission, get lucky enough to get a key, and then run it with all of your other group members. Let alone the time investment this would require. 23 times minimum.

 

There's a strong bias towards clans that already have a lot of members. I can see this becoming a situation of "let's invite the masses and contribute and just use this one guild for all our future blueprint needs."

I think this takes out a lot from the sense of community in the update, in this situation the new research could have been a global event similar to the Frost Prime one - it practically is.

 

While the resource costs are steep for a Dojo, I think with the right members it's affordable. You're mainly going to want these for new blueprints, yet it costs significant amounts of resources and forma.

My issue is that this isn't just a one clan based thing, it's multiple. I think considering this, it takes a lot of the joy out of a tighter community rather than a big community that starts to sacrifice quality of member over quantity of members.

The resource costs seem almost unjustified in the case of smaller clans, yet the goal is virtually the same. Are we eventually going to have people leave a clan just to join another, buy the blueprints and then hop back in their old one? Not very "clan" or "community" based at all.

I also think the rush costs are ludicrous. I cannot justify those at all. I would rather the rushing would be encouraged so the community can establish what they want sooner after spreading the information, while the first clan to reach those milestones enjoys the prestige from their expenditure. It's a platinum sink for time, and for many sensible people, Warframe will always be there doing its thing, whether now or later; I'll get what I'm building, so why waste significant amounts of money that could be used for the Forma requirements on the future construction? Rushing is still an unjustified money sink for lack of patience.

 

With the introduction of these new resources, I think they're making it harder to get rare drops from bosses. I've run multiple times and had very dire luck, many times I wonder if this new resource is getting priority in the table. It would be nicer if things weren't suddenly requiring 10 orokin cells, 5 of other rare resources, etc. But 10+ runs on a lower level boss for one drop? Tedious. Not sure if this is just me, but this is my luck.

 

The Reaper Prime lacks a polarity slot. "Prime"; no polarity slot. Not sure why this is, I find it unusual we have a prime variant of a weapon that doesn't exist either, I'd assume this is the 'Good' version of the Hate in terms of alignment, but the charge attack for this is different.

 

I'm not perfect, nor is my opinion or summary ideal by any means. I understand DE need to make money and I understand this game is provided as "free to play". It's just that money can be made easier without making the consumer feel the need to cave in and fork out to bypass the intended grind. Please, make things more accessible to the average player. This forum feels much like "You don't -have- to spend platinum, it's not -that- hard to get, update is good" drowning out some of the more concerning, reasonable complaints.

I like DE, but I also like a game that isn't ruled by a section of founders struggling to relate to those who haven't had the platinum there to "fill the gap" between some of their grind or decisions. There are some dedicated players that may not fork out hundreds to roll around saying 'I can buy anything I want at will to bypass this', but those players still require attention. They are still people capable of providing to the wiki, building third party websites to help track alerts, and contributing to the community as a whole. Their contributions do not have to be in the form of money for them to be valuable players.

 

It's between making a more accessible game, or supporting those who will enjoy the game for as long as their funds or luck or circumstances benefit them over the "rabble".

Giving money for a free to play game is often a balance between it being affordable and having respect for the services offered. When someone buys a pack for 75 platinum, gets level 1 void keys and 5 Reaper handles, you can be sure that's a purchase they regret with no turnaround. Sure, they knew the risk, but they paid a price for their investment. Is that the sort of feeling you want to encourage in your consumer?

 

TL;DR: Let's try to get a cleaner focus on the issues here - drop rates are unfair, platinum impulse buys are encouraged with excessive grind or unfair drop rates with not enough payout, smaller clans need love too, lesser spending players need love too.

 

I didn't really want to type of a wall of text. Hopefully someone will at least read through this. I am expecting a storm like many threads before this, though.

 

Very well thought out and mirrors my thought almost exactly.

 

As far as the devs making money, yeah I agree however, the baseline should be that the average player should be able to access a full month of content and playablitie for an investment of $15-$20 a month.  Why this number?  Simple, because even  AAA games like SWTOR and WoW with megamillion dollar development budgest can be exceedingly profitable at this level. 

 

Right now, $15-$20 would buy me around 20 keys for the void which I could easily run in one days worth of hard play, 2 days if I wanted a more relaxing experince.  That is way off the pace of $15-$20 for a months worth of play.  Costs should probably be about 10 plat for a 5 use tier 1 key, 15 plat for a 5 use Tier 2 key and 20 Plat for a 5 use Tier 3 key.  That would make the cost of accessing the void be able $1-2 dollars a day which is still expensive as hell.  15 plat per key is just flat robbery.