Resource Drops: Finding A Solution We Can All Agree Upon

[Maneframe]

Edit, TL;DR: Current Resource drop system isn't very optimal, ideas?

 

 

Yesterday I started a topic about what I thought should happen when a resource drop gets picked up, and I was actually dumbfounded by the number of people who were against my idea. You can find the topic here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55671-everyone-should-get-resources-when-one-person-picks-it-up/?p=575709

 

Now, out of all the responses, I still noticed a pattern: the current system for resource drops isn't all that great, and has some major downsides with any playstyle. Instead of just saying what I think should happen, I want to see what everyone else thinks, and offer some ideas a friend and I came up with. I would just be really glad to see resource drops get an overhaul in general as it stands right now.

 

The most common response I got was people think rushing and abandoning teammates will be encouraged if everyone gets the resources upon one person picking them up. This could very well end up being an issue. However, the current system doesn't really prohibit rushing either, and neither does it reward the guy who scavenges, because all the resources that dropped up by the rushers have now dissappeared by the time her gets there.

 

A friend suggested that it might be neat if all the resource drops were automatically waypointed, or could be highlighted through walls like other players. This way even if your team does not mark them in a side room (which happens much too often) you could still see them. This can seem a little overpowered, so maybe it could even be implemented as an artifact? It could also be expanded out to other objects as well. auto marked modules and resources, turn on and off which kinds you wanted marked, and possibly even ammo if you were below a certain amount left. it's not too far fetched, they already have a lot of future tech. It's not far off from what happens on a good team either, they waypoint it, and you go get it. This would remove the liability from players who do not mark resources for teammates.

 

resources also leave behind no particle effect like ammo or modules. So after you pick it up, you can't tell if everyone else has or not. This kind of strikes me as odd.

 

these still don't encourage teamwork, however. In fact, it wouldn't be changed much at all. What I thought would personallyy encourage teamwork is the resource droprate increasing (a lot) with successive kills in a certain perdiod of time. so if a team stuck together and fought, they could get rewarded for doing so. But there's another thing that was brought up by both myself and another poster that seems like it should be rewarded as well:

 

Splitting up is a totally viable method of teamwork. there's a reason it happens and there's a reason it works. Cover a lot of ground, easier to explore, it's efficient. It even happens on a smaller scale in combat with flanking. but none of these behaviors are currently rewarded, and are very much hindered. I do not want to go flank, or stray very far away from everyone else at all because I don't want to miss a pick up. If the game weren't so centered around resources, that would be different, but it's the way it is, and missing resources can end up being a big deal. It would be neat if the drops could be tailored in a way that rewards many different kinds of teamwork, and not just the kinds that have all 4 players within 2 meters of eachother.

 

Please contribute if you have any ideas. I want to see what people think about all of this, or if they have their own better ideas. Do you guys agree or disagree with any of the things I brought up?

Edited June 1, 2013 by BrendanM

[luddeluff]

both resources and mods should get picked up for everyone when one pick them up. It actually encourage teamwork in defense maps if it worked like this because as it is now everyone just runs around picking up mods or are only covering places where you are close to pick up most mobs and so on (also some retarted people that run to the other side of the defense map and kill mobs without marking mods). The game would be so much less of a hassle without everyone having to pick them up

[Maneframe]

both resources and mods should get picked up for everyone when one pick them up. It actually encourage teamwork in defense maps if it worked like this because as it is now everyone just runs around picking up mods or are only covering places where you are close to pick up most mobs and so on (also some retarted people that run to the other side of the defense map and kill mobs without marking mods). The game would be so much less of a hassle without everyone having to pick them up

I agree to an extent. This is what the topic I made the other day was about. But a lot of people don't agree if you go back and read the other topic I linked, and for some rather good reasons too. The point of this topic is to find some general consensus among the players.

 

This method would indeed promote teamwork on defense maps, but the whole game isn't defense maps. It actually would take away any downsides to rushing, and teamwork would actually end up being hurt outside of defense maps. The solution can't be just a range with which other players get it if one picks it up either, because this still doesn't encourage any teamwork styles that involve splitting up, unless, that is, if the designers would like it to be that way.

[VKhaun]

Loot pickup system is all about pacing. How far people can go ahead of you during the time you pick stuff up, vs EXP share range, vs move speed differences. I took my shiny new Frost Prime into a mission with an Ashe and all it took was one nice locker bank to put me solidly in the rear for the rest of the mission.

 

I think the game needs more development (like in the livestream they were talking about wanting to gate people so they can't just rush forward without killing anything, without slowing the game down?) before the pacing is set and we can talk about loot objectively.

 

My personal opinion is that everything should be shared within EXP radius. If you leave me behind while I'm looting lockers for mats or vases in the void and deny me the enemy kills EXP, you shouldn't get the mats or mods or creds I'm picking up, but if we're all within two or three rooms of eachother or all on the same defense map there's no reason to stop playing, leave positions unguarded, and have all four people run to a WP to pick up one mod or have the mission END with mods on the ground. That's silly and should just be shared.

 

But again, just my 2¢ based on what I like. For game design purposes I think we'd have to let the pacing settle to be really objective.

[Maneframe]

Loot pickup system is all about pacing. How far people can go ahead of you during the time you pick stuff up, vs EXP share range, vs move speed differences. I took my shiny new Frost Prime into a mission with an Ashe and all it took was one nice locker bank to put me solidly in the rear for the rest of the mission.

 

I think the game needs more development (like in the livestream they were talking about wanting to gate people so they can't just rush forward without killing anything, without slowing the game down?) before the pacing is set and we can talk about loot objectively.

 

My personal opinion is that everything should be shared within EXP radius. If you leave me behind while I'm looting lockers for mats or vases in the void and deny me the enemy kills EXP, you shouldn't get the mats or mods or creds I'm picking up, but if we're all within two or three rooms of eachother or all on the same defense map there's no reason to stop playing, leave positions unguarded, and have all four people run to a WP to pick up one mod or have the mission END with mods on the ground. That's silly and should just be shared.

 

But again, just my 2¢ based on what I like. For game design purposes I think we'd have to let the pacing settle to be really objective.

Didn't really think about pacing, but I have run into the same issues. There's another problem I notice a lot with pacing and resource drops alike, and that's that usually the random generated map has a little extra area to explore and look, and every random ever runs right past it. you go in to loot it? You get left in the dust. And there's no extra drop rates for going out of your way, or nice little incentive to search it, nothing that makes it just a little neat and magical that it exists. I find it a bit frustrating. Even if we did have proper pacing right now, It wouldn't solve people from running past it without a nice little bit of incentive to go check it out.

 

Pacing will also be interesting. It would be difficult to get the game to reward or support the group splitting up (for good teamwork reasons). I wasn't the only one that was concerned about this in the previous topic. Sure, with randoms, this rarely happens. but my friends and I coordinate and split into seperate groups to flank or cover more ground often enough to warrant some consideration into the gameplay style.

[VKhaun]

Didn't really think about pacing, but I have run into the same issues. There's another problem I notice a lot with pacing and resource drops alike, and that's that usually the random generated map has a little extra area to explore and look, and every random ever runs right past it. you go in to loot it? You get left in the dust. And there's no extra drop rates for going out of your way, or nice little incentive to search it, nothing that makes it just a little neat and magical that it exists. I find it a bit frustrating. Even if we did have proper pacing right now, It wouldn't solve people from running past it without a nice little bit of incentive to go check it out.

 

I think the exploration issue is more about the Y shape of the missions. Instead of 'there and back again' or 'all the way through', the game usually has you backtrack halfway from the objective then go off in a new direction to reach extraction. That means any time you see a side area you could potentially be totally wasting your time exploring the path to extraction... happens to me on Void missions with my explorer friend every single time.

 

A proper map screen will probably help that a great deal, especially if they mark the exit and entrance.

Edited June 1, 2013 by VKhaun

[Maneframe]

I think the exploration issue is more about the Y shape of the missions. Instead of 'there and back again' or 'all the way through', the game usually has you backtrack halfway from the objective then go off in a new direction to reach extraction. That means any time you see a side area you could potentially be totally wasting your time exploring the path to extraction... happens to me on Void missions with my explorer friend every single time.

 

A proper map screen will probably help that a great deal, especially if they mark the exit and entrance.

That's a good point. Sometimes it does do the neat little extra areas that dead end, sometimes it takes you through 5-6 rooms before it does. but there's no way of knowing either unless the objective is completed; at which point, players just typically rush towards the end like they're in some kind of hurry.

[Arcalane]

Some thoughts--

 

1) Remove the common/uncommon drops from bosses entirely.

Basically, no more nanospores or ferrite from Jackal, etc. - rare materials only. Maybe not a 100% chance you'll always get one, but at least you know you either got a research material or a rare material.

 

2) Increase the common/uncommon drop blobs from bosses by 10x/5x

If they're going to drop a slap in the face, it might as well be a decently sized slap in the face to make the whole fiasco worth our time and effort. Just because the bosses are easy to kill for high-level well-outfitted players doesn't mean they should only drop a standard-sized blob of ferrite/nanospores.

 

3) Increase the chance of a double-drop.

This is very rare but it can happen - I had Nef drop Gallium and an Orokin Cell a night or so ago. Simply make it so bosses have a higher chance to drop two materials instead of just one. One could always be a rare, the other might be a rare but is more likely to be a research material or un/common.

 

4) Tweak map generation -- ensure that there is always at least one of the area's rarest material on a given assassination map.

Have this rare material somewhere in the boss chamber. Not necessarily on the boss itself - maybe a mook, maybe a container or a locker. But have at least one of the damn things somewhere on the map -- with the potential for more.

 

5) Void Tower material drops.

Someone brought this up before in another thread. Have all the resources drop in the Void Towers. Higher tiers = better rates for rarer materials, and bigger blobs of common materials.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Arcalane

[Maneframe]

Some thoughts--

 

1) Remove the common/uncommon drops from bosses entirely.

Basically, no more nanospores or ferrite from Jackal, etc. - rare materials only. Maybe not a 100% chance you'll always get one, but at least you know you either got a research material or a rare material.

 

2) Increase the common/uncommon drop blobs from bosses by 10x/5x

If they're going to drop a slap in the face, it might as well be a decently sized slap in the face to make the whole fiasco worth our time and effort. Just because the bosses are easy to kill for high-level well-outfitted players doesn't mean they should only drop a standard-sized blob of ferrite/nanospores.

 

3) Increase the chance of a double-drop.

This is very rare but it can happen - I had Nef drop Gallium and an Orokin Cell a night or so ago. Simply make it so bosses have a higher chance to drop two materials instead of just one. One could always be a rare, the other might be a rare but is more likely to be a research material or un/common.

 

4) Tweak map generation -- ensure that there is always at least one of the area's rarest material on a given assassination map.

Have this rare material somewhere in the boss chamber. Not necessarily on the boss itself - maybe a mook, maybe a container or a locker. But have at least one of the damn things somewhere on the map -- with the potential for more.

 

5) Void Tower material drops.

Someone brought this up before in another thread. Have all the resources drop in the Void Towers. Higher tiers = better rates for rarer materials, and bigger blobs of common materials.

some of those ideas are pretty neat. I didn't even think much of actual amounts myself. I've been more concerned with actually picking them up. D: