Void Drop Rates + Void Keys Drop Rates + Void Key Pack Drop Rates+ Defense Reward Estimation

[Asla]

. On Xini you get your fusion trash, dojo mats, and keys. It seems to me that everything besides what your looking for is being considered useless and that is simply untrue, as you can see in D3.

Once again, rewards, loot, mats doesn't @(*()$ scale (i am losing patience sorry).

Get what?

Nano spores? Yeah my 170k amount of nano is not enough right now, i need more.

Keys? 0.15% chance to get a t3? You don't even go in xini looking for that.

Fusion? Getting fusion 3 cores on lvl 50+ ennemy is ridiculous. But at least it's definitely something not totally useless (even if you get around 20 warframe common skills mod for one fusion core)

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asla

[Webly]

@DERebecca

 

In addition to what I already said, I think we'd all rather prefer it if DE supported itself with more cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay and allowed the gameplay affecting items to be obtained more freely.

This has already been proven successful in f2p.

[Notso]

But you're lying.

 

Without evidence that what I said is not the case, that is not more than a last ditch attempt to refute me using a baseless accusation.

[Excitonex]

It's not really about the price. Even if in europe, 75 plat=4 euros, around 5$ a bit higher so.

It's about introducing more and more platinum dependant content.

 

I do agree with you. I have mentionned Thunderbolt because it's a mod i really want but i would be happy to get whatever rare mods (not only streamline and warframe elite skills). Farming the same amount of time in D3 ll allow you to get one or more rare items. Maybe be not the perfect item, maybe not the one you absolutely want but at least a valuable item.

Top of that, as someone said above, drop chance are static and doesn't scale on wave/missions/ennemies level or whatever in warframe.

Anyway it was just an answer to rebecca, we should't go in a debate like LoL vs Warframe economic, D3 vs Warframe Rng ect.. That's not the point of the thread.

I think the issue here is that neither T1 or T2 keys are likely to complete an item for anyone. If T1's and T2's had their own specific drops perhaps some of this issue would be alleviated?

[Excitonex]

Once again, rewards, loot, mats doesn't @(*()$ scale (i am losing patience sorry).

Get what?

Nano spores? Yeah my 170k amount of nano is not enough right now, i need more.

Keys? 0.15% chance to get a t3? You don't even go in xini looking for that.

Fusion? Getting fusion 3 cores on lvl 50+ ennemy is ridiculous. But at least it's definitely something not totally useless (even if you get around 20 warframe common skills mod for one fusion core)

Let's keep the conversation civil, otherwise you're only detracting from your point. You do realize that some rooms take 120k nano spores? In total to get all the research you need 1.07 million nano spores. So yeah, 170k isn't enough, you need more.

 

This fusion trash helps you just as much as AHing that item in D3. In both instances it's not what you're looking for, a large increase in DPS, but it does help further your character slightly.

[Asla]

I think the issue here is that neither T1 or T2 keys are likely to complete an item for anyone. If T1's and T2's had their own specific drops perhaps some of this issue would be alleviated?

Ofc, but not with less than 1% droprate in t1&t2 for receiver/blade, and no frost parts.

[Vabla]

@DERebecca

 

In addition to what I already said, I think we'd all rather prefer it if DE supported itself with more cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay and allowed the gameplay affecting items to be obtained more freely.

This has already been proven successful in f2p.

I WANT to buy cosmetic items. If half of the new weapons were actually skins and on top on normal availability would be purchasable in the platinum shop for some 10-20 platinum I'd gladly throw my money at that.

And you know what's great about cosmetics? The fact that people get bored of their old look thus seeking new cosmetics.

[Chessalavakia]

Deleted

Edited February 1, 2021 by Chessalavakia

[Excitonex]

Ofc, but not with less than 1% droprate in t1&t2 for receiver/blade, and no frost parts.

I don't think we should make the rare weapons more available. The idea that rare items should be widely available to every person regardless of how much time they can invest into the game is offensive when you're talking about a RPG style drop system. If you're a hardcore gamer and hardcore into warframe then waiting a few weeks or months is usually not an issue.

[Shezo]

I don't think we should make the rare weapons more available. The idea that rare items should be widely available to every person regardless of how much time they can invest into the game is offensive when you're talking about a RPG style drop system. If you're a hardcore gamer and hardcore into warframe then waiting a few weeks or months is usually not an issue.

 

It's not about rarity, people can just pay platinum for keys and get this items, so, please, don't play this "rarity" card.

It's about platinum gated content wrapped in lottery, which by itself is bullS#&$.

[Asla]

I don't think we should make the rare weapons more available. The idea that rare items should be widely available to every person regardless of how much time they can invest into the game is offensive when you're talking about a RPG style drop system. If you're a hardcore gamer and hardcore into warframe then waiting a few weeks or months is usually not an issue.

Better not let them  get it, you re right.

Then you could show you e-peen everywhere on the forumframe.

 

As I said once again, 0.67%, 0.5% drop rate on t1&t2 is not rare, not even legendary. It's nearly impossible to get freely without spending plat to get t3 keys. I wouldn't mind about those droprate if you could enter in the void freely or by any "in-game system lock" (mastery or other way) but that's not the case.

 

I am stopping to discuss with you as you don't want to understand the issue over here.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asla

[Excitonex]

It's not about rarity, people can just pay platinum for keys and get this items, so, please, don't play this "rarity" card.

It's about platinum gated content wrapped in lottery, which by itself is bullS#&$.

Keys are extremely easy to get simply by playing the game. People will always be able to straight up buy stuff in a F2P game so I tend to ignore that portion of the player base. The idea that people can't actually just go buy the Prime stuff should be comforting to you since it means there's actually something in the game you HAVE to earn. If there's nothing in the game that is hard to get what is the point of playing?

[Excitonex]

Better not let them  get it, you re right.

Then you could show you e-peen everywhere on the forumframe.

 

As I said once again, 067%, 0.5% drop rate on t1&t2 is not rare, not even legendary. It's nearly impossible to get freely without spending plat to get t3 keys. I wouldn't mind about those droprate if you could enter in the void freely or by any "in-game system lock" (mastery or other way) but that's not the case.

 

I am stopping to discuss with you as you don't want to understand the issue over here.

If you've ever worked hard to achieve something, and I'm sure you have, then you know that it is much more rewarding than achieving something that everyone else has too. This is why rare drops are rare. So when you finally have it you feel a sense of accomplishment.

[Asla]

If you've ever worked hard to achieve something, and I'm sure you have, then you know that it is much more rewarding than achieving something that everyone else has too. This is why rare drops are rare. So when you finally have it you feel a sense of accomplishment.

Do you mean having 0.15% chance to get a T3 key and then 7% to get the reward you miss (system for exemple) is working hard?

Do you mean having 8% chance to get a T1 key and then 0.67% chance to get the reward you miss (receiver for exemple) is working hard?

Nope.

You could play 8 hours per day your entire life without getting it.

 

Also buying a master pack 99 bucks, spending loads of platinum into void keys pack and then getting your prime stuff feel a sense of accomplishment?

I don't think either.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asla

[Shezo]

Keys are extremely easy to get simply by playing the game. People will always be able to straight up buy stuff in a F2P game so I tend to ignore that portion of the player base. The idea that people can't actually just go buy the Prime stuff should be comforting to you since it means there's actually something in the game you HAVE to earn. If there's nothing in the game that is hard to get what is the point of playing?

 

You don't get it -- it's not about rarity or things you must earn or any or this crap.

It's about platinum gated content and extremely low chance for non-paying player to get this good stuff.

It's all made this way to make people pay and not because of some rarity and bragging rights thing, 

[lZerul]

I have purchased 1 Key pack ever, and didn't even get what I wanted out of the runs from it, but I still did enough tier 2-3 to get the parts for the Latron and Frost Primes. I just played with friends, if we get lucky on a key drop in a Defense mission, that is 4 runs right there.

 

Our small clan already has 4 frost primes and 3 latron primes, and we have 6 people. The RNG looks bad on paper, but in reality, playing in a regular group actually makes it much more realisticly possible.

 

Not to mention how easy it is to pick up a group in chat.

[Vabla]

I have purchased 1 Key pack ever, and didn't even get what I wanted out of the runs from it, but I still did enough tier 2-3 to get the parts for the Latron and Frost Primes. I just played with friends, if we get lucky on a key drop in a Defense mission, that is 4 runs right there.

 

Our small clan already has 4 frost primes and 3 latron primes, and we have 6 people. The RNG looks bad on paper, but in reality, playing in a regular group actually makes it much more realisticly possible.

 

Not to mention how easy it is to pick up a group in chat.

Guess where those tier 3 void keys that someone was so gracious to provide came from? Because I have yet to see a single T3 key ingame. In fact, I have yet to even hear of a single T3 key from anyone I know. And I've been playing far more than I should have.

[Asla]

Guess where those tier 3 void keys that someone was so gracious to provide came from? Because I have yet to see a single T3 key ingame. In fact, I have yet to even hear of a single T3 key from anyone I know. And I've been playing far more than I should have.

Same here.

I got all prime stuff but system and receiver. 

How?

By leeching T3 run offered by people who actually paid for it

How i feel?

Really bad, but better than not being able to get in a t3 mission by myself.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Asla

[Excitonex]

Do you mean having 0.15% chance to get a T3 key and then 7% to get the reward you miss (system for exemple) is working hard?

Do you mean having 8% chance to get a T1 key and then 0.67% chance to get the reward you miss (receiver for exemple) is working hard?

Nope.

You could play 8 hours per day your entire life without getting it.

 

Also buying a master pack 99 bucks, spending loads of platinum into void keys pack and then getting your prime stuff feel a sense of accomplishment?

I don't think either.

By your definition nothing in any game ever is hard because all it takes is time. If you don't feel a sense of accomplishment when you have invested enough time to achieve something rare then why do you play?

[lZerul]

Guess where those tier 3 void keys that someone was so gracious to provide came from? Because I have yet to see a single T3 key ingame. In fact, I have yet to even hear of a single T3 key from anyone I know. And I've been playing far more than I should have.

 

4 of my tier 3 void runs came from my clan members, from a defense run we all did.

[NeoDarkSider]

Instead of comparing Warframe to Diablo3, maybe compare Warframe to Rotmg(Realm of the Mad God).

 

 

Warframe makes cash from: warframe slots, weapon slots, colors, void keys, forma, weapons and equipment

 

Rotmg makes cash from: character slots, bank inventory slots, colors, dungeon keys, (recently weapons and equipment due to Item farming Websites/item duplicate hacks/bugs)

 

 

Warframe hard to get gear: random alert mission, void key runs

 

Rotmg hard to get gear: Wine Cellar key runs and ultra rare white bag drops

 

 

Currently in Warframe it is some what difficult to obtain void key(some have had more luck than others). And then when in the void it is even more difficult to obtain the item you want.

 

Currently in Rotmg it is VERY difficult to obtain Wine Cellar keys. And then it is still difficult to obtain the item you want.

 

 

If items are too common, there is less satisfaction when you do get the item.

 

If items are too rare, there is feeling of never being able to obtain the item.

 

 

Of coarse you can't fully compare the two games because in Rotmg there is: Full Trading and those ultra rare wine cellar keys can be use by your whole clan.

 

I have played over 1200 hour of Rotmg and still never earned some items due them being so rare but was able to obtain them from trading.

 

tl;dr DE is trying hard to balance out the pace of the game and how rare they want some items to be. Maybe once they implement trading in some limited/controlled form, it will help solve some of these issues.

[Thelonious]

Suggestions?

For mods, some simple ideas:

- Get rid of rare ability cards in the loot tables: the fact that 70% of the rare pool is full of those doesn't help anyone, especially since we can't sell those by mistake anymore.

- More consistency in the faction loot tables: we shouldn't be able to get rares from other factions when fighting one. At least we'd know where to search for a specific mod. Common and Uncommon ones, sure why not, but not rares.

It's closely related to the above suggestion though, but I still get lots of rare ability cards from the Grineer and everytime I'm thinking: "Oh well, too bad, this should have been a multishot/continuity/focus"

- Extend faction specific loot tables to defense missions: If I'm playing a grineer defense, I should get grineer specific rewards. Logical.

That would help scatter around the huge pool of rewards possible: instead of having one huge defense specific pool, we'd have 3 smaller faction specific pool, which would basicaly be the same as the mob drop pool, tweaked a bit to include keys and consumables.

The whole defense reward pool need to be looked at anyway: why is fire damage less rare than freeze damage?

Obviously the pool should be tied to the rarity of the mod, and nothing else.

Oh, and some mod rarities need a review: crit chance is common but crit damage is rare? oO

AP for rifle is uncommon, common for pistol, and rare for melee? oO JUST STICK TO SOMETHING YOU DAMN AP

Abilities like Super Jump or teleport are rare? oO (I'm soooo happy when I get those -.-)

And more I can't think about right now...

- And obviously, in defense, scaling rewards: but that is probably worked on right now. The higher wave you reach, the better the reward. Again, tied to rarity please. But no abilities, right?

Now the void:

- Keys more easily obtainable: duh.

Oh wait, I just talked about scaling rewards. What if?...from wave X keys are added to the table and drop rate increases with the level of waves?

Yeah this one was obvious.

Another one: a chance to get Keys from the void of the same tier you just spent. This one is nice. Try again, free ride.

- Loot tables and drop rates changes: duh.

Oh wait, I just talked about faction specific tables? What if?...loot tables change with the TYPE OF MISSION?

Frost parts from Exterminate, along with formas and other non-related crap.

Latron parts from raid...

More mission types to be released.

And room for more items, since there are...*counting on fingers*...something like 5 mission types at the moment?

Isn't that the same for banshee parts at the moment anyway? system from defense, chassis from intel...

In short, you know where to look for a specific part. And it reduces the size of the pool, while increasing drop rate for every item in said pool.

Key type is still random though, but chances to get what you want are better.

ZOMG VOID DEFENSE MISSIONS! with the full void loot table as reward pool!

Edited June 2, 2013 by Thelonious

[NeoDarkSider]

Maybe Void Tier1 runs should also have a reward chance to get a Void Tier2 key. And Void Tier2 should have a reward chance for a Void Tier3 key. This way ftp players who only ever get t1 keys have a chance to go to t2. And players who obtained all rewards from t1 won't feel like their stock pile of t1 is useless.

[Vabla]

4 of my tier 3 void runs came from my clan members, from a defense run we all did.

Glad you got lucky on that (I really am). But, provided the data mining is accurate (and I'll honestly trust a miner more than a for-profit company), to reach a 50/50 chance for a key you need 460 rolls on tier 3 defense rewards. That's 230 runs up to wave 10 on Xini. And that's still just for a coin flip.

 

Allow me to illustrate:

 

The x axis is the number of times you roll reward on a tier 3 defense (in other words, 5 waves = 1 on the x).

The y axis is the probability of seeing a key after X rolls are performed (multiply by 100 to get a percentage)

 

P.S. Math is fun :o

[cknives]

Bit of mathy fun.

 

As a free player if you want a forma.

 

(not counting alerts and login rewards)

 

at a 12% chance for T2 orokin it takes about ~9-10 keys, lets say 10 to make it easy

 

And the chance to get a T2 key seems to be 5% on a tier 2 defense.( i cant verify this ive never gotten a tier 2 key and ive ran across tier 2 defense quite alot)

 

So it will take 20 wave 5 tier 2 runs to get 1 key

 

so 200 wave 5 tier 2 runs will get you 1 forma.(if your lucky)

 

That's about a 20 hour investment if your fast(not counting the actual void runs). 25-30 is probably more realistic

 

For a casual player this is about a 3-4 week time span for 1 forma lol.

 

 

DE? did you really want us to grind 20 hours straight to get 1 forma?