Why Is Dera Even Worse Than Grakata?

[Nerokerubina]

Okay, let's do that. Let's take rate of fire into account as well when comparing the dera to the grakata.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Grakata

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Dera

According to the wiki, the grakata has a rate of fire of 20 and a base damage of 9 per projectile. The dera, on the other hand, has an even lower damage of 9 per projectile, and a rate of fire barely more than half of that of the grakata's, at 11.3.

 

Most people would consider the Grineer gun's standard damage output to be lackluster, but now it's meant for crits, and speccing as such will turn it into a very workable weapon. However, the dera has stats losing even to the underwhelming grakata, with no chance of crits or any gimmick that gives it an advantage. Yes, it's more accurate, but there's not much point to that accuracy given how slow its projectiles are.

 

Point is is that it's crap and if you think otherwise you're wrong.

Not only that but the amount of time and effort and saving up for materials isn't worth it ether. 

[Spat80Lad]

@ thatsleepyguy You are right. Hadn't actually looked at the dera, the thread went a little off topic in the middle comparing the grakata and mk1 braton and i got caught up in it. The dera definitely needs some buffing.

[Kordy]

It's funny because in that gif, you are using an extremely precise repeating weapon to body-shot Grineer like you're hip-firing an SMG.

 

Try making some consecutive headshots with it. I don't disagree the the Dera needs some work, but good Lord, if you're going to complain about how bad a weapon is, at least use it to its effective extent.

 

Dera has no niche.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Dera has no niche.

 

No recoil, fast fire rate.

 

Key being no recoil. That means its effectiveness lies solely on the players ability to aim it at vital points and let the rapid firerate chip things to death ala Grakata. It relies on this more than the Grakata, as the Grak has a high spread and recoil and large area for crit damage.

Edited June 4, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[RAVVSlathotep]

So what. Grakata is sh*** at the beginning too. And later, it becomes a beast.

What are you even talking about, the Grakata is a horrible weapon, it needs to be heavily modded to be remotely useful and even when max modded it still pales in comparison to a normal Braton. Then again, the Braton is indeed a top tier weapon.

You're doing it wrong. The whole point to Grakata is criticals and with the two maxed crit mods it's average base damage per bullet is 20. Of course that comes at the cost of two mod slots and points but it can be turned into a somewhat beastly gun. Not going to bother myself though, doesn't leave any room for utility mods.

The Grakata with the usual damage mods does more DPS than with critical mods. Edited June 4, 2013 by RAVVSlathotep

[MoonicusMaximus]

What are you even talking about, the Grakata is a horrible weapon, it needs to be heavily modded to be remotely useful and even when max modded it still pales in comparison to a normal Braton. Then again, the Braton is indeed a top tier weapon.

 

Pales in which comparisons, exactly? I use my Grakata a lot. It has its own pros and cons.

[RAVVSlathotep]

Pales in which comparisons, exactly? I use my Grakata a lot. It has its own pros and cons.

Damage, accuracy, stability and looks. The Braton is just a better weapon.

[Kordy]

Pros - ???

 

Cons - 9 base damage

[Fiyabwal]

Pales in which comparisons, exactly? I use my Grakata a lot. It has its own pros and cons.

ammo economy

damage

accuracy

oh wait thats EVERYTHING a gun needs, my mistake.

[thatsleepyguy]

No recoil, fast fire rate.

 

Key being no recoil. That means its effectiveness lies solely on the players ability to aim it at vital points and let the rapid firerate chip things to death ala Grakata. It relies on this more than the Grakata, as the Grak has a high spread and recoil and large area for crit damage.

The RoF is pretty crap for a fully-automatic weapon of its type. And what differences does no recoil/great accuracy make when the projectile speed is so slow that you won't hit a moving snail at 50 feet?

 

The "chip" damage is far too low for it to be effective at close or medium range. Even if that projectile speed didn't render it near-useless at long range, it's still far far outmatched by the likes of the latron and braton, both of which have very manageable recoil and can output far greater amounts of damage.

[AscendantWyvern]

This is a shame really, I hoped the plasma weapons would have something going for them...like a passive Fire/Electric damage to them that makes them exotic and viable.

 

As of right now...I see nothing that makes it worth using.

[Nohra]

It's funny because in that gif, you are using an extremely precise repeating weapon to body-shot Grineer like you're hip-firing an SMG.

 

Try making some consecutive headshots with it. I don't disagree the the Dera needs some work, but good Lord, if you're going to complain about how bad a weapon is, at least use it to its effective extent.

The travel time of the projectiles makes it bad for a headshotting machine. In addition to all of the other problems the weapon has.

[Second_Measure]

The Grakata doesn't open chests and containers with one hit when on Level 1.

But firing a fresh-out-of-a-box weapon upon Grineers without any AP will of course result in terrible numbers.

[Kordy]

The Grakata doesn't open chests and containers with one hit when on Level 1.

But firing a fresh-out-of-a-box weapon upon Grineers without any AP will of course result in terrible numbers.

 

With a base damage of 7, what AP are you talking about?

 

DE pls rename it to DERABLE asap so people will know not to bother, tyia.

[Second_Measure]

With a base damage of 7, what AP are you talking about?

 

No idea what you talk about here.

[Grimdarkwolf]

Jesus christ how awful.

[Kordy]

You do realize that Armor Piercing mods depend on the weapon's base damage, right?

 

They add a percentage of the weapon's base damage (modified by %damage mods like Hornet Strike or Serration) as armor piercing damage.

 

Say, I have a maxed AP mod on my Dera. At max level, it is 60% AP damage. 60% of 7 is 4.2 damage, rounded down to 4. So, I'll be doing 7 normal damage (thanks to armor this will be around 2 instead) and 4 AP damage.

 

How wonderful.

 

Let's go one step forward. Let's add Serration to the mix. Say we have a rank 6 serration with 105% damage increase - let's call it 100% for simplicity's sake.

 

So now our base damage is 14. Now, a maxed AP is still 60% so we'll do an additional 8.4 damage, rounded down to 8.

 

Now here's your homework, do the same with the braton.

[Second_Measure]

-numbers-

 

I never said the Dera was good. But to exaggerate on a bad weapon by showing it being used under less-than-optimal conditions isn't much of a help.

 

It's like I would demonstrate using a Level 1 Furis on those Level 15 Grineer. Of course it will suck.

[RAVVSlathotep]

I never said the Dera was good. But to exaggerate on a bad weapon by showing it being used under less-than-optimal conditions isn't much of a help.

 

It's like I would demonstrate using a Level 1 Furis on those Level 15 Grineer. Of course it will suck.

Can't be compared, the Furis has higher base damage and faster bullet travel so you can reliable hit weakpoints with small bursts, unlike the Dera which requires painful amounts of leading and ESP. It would wreck those Grineer. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Zyfe3rX]

GRAKATA :- Grineer base wep = Crap

Dera :- Corpus base wep = crap.

 

Behold the Law of Base Weapon Crappyness

 

 

Dera is laser. So IT MUST IGNORE ARMOR, like our old Snipertron. Also must have a little bit higher rate of fire and damage.

[Second_Measure]

Can't be compared, the Furis has higher base damage and faster bullet travel so you can reliable hit weakpoints with small bursts, unlike the Dera which requires painful amounts of leading and ESP. It would wreck those Grineer. You don't know what you're talking about.

Using such images won't help make it a better weapon.

So what if you need two shots to pop a chest - The Grakata needs two shots aswell on level 1.

And he certainly didn't tried much to go for the weak points there, he swung it around across various Grineer.

 

I can do that the same with the Furis, make a short animation of that and call it a bad gun on the forum.

[Kordy]

So what you're saying is that Dera is bad but because of other reasons.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Dera is S#&$.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I'm exaggerating because DE is using us to test these.

 

I used a forma on this S#&$. I expect it to be better than the grakata at the very least.

[Second_Measure]

So what you're saying is that Dera is bad but because of other reasons.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Dera is S#&$.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I'm exaggerating because DE is using us to test these.

 

I used a forma on this S#&$. I expect it to be better than the grakata at the very least.

 

I know it's bad. I pulled up a spreadsheet to compare it with others.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai3njS0ds_RVdHdaSmdSRlJWbHJzVGJQVmlGd0o2OGc#gid=0

 

Do File -> "Make a Copy"

Then rename one of the weapons on the copy and tweak the numbers to match it the Dera, then you'll see what I mean.

 

Images won't help much, but proving it by numbers is far more effective and convincing.

[RAVVSlathotep]

Using such images won't help make it a better weapon.

So what if you need two shots to pop a chest - The Grakata needs two shots aswell on level 1.

And he certainly didn't tried much to go for the weak points there, he swung it around across various Grineer.

 

I can do that the same with the Furis, make a short animation of that and call it a bad gun on the forum.

So complaining about a S#&$ weapon won't make it a better? Well, let's call it a good then, that will teach them.

Thus both Dera and Grakata are horrible. Dera even more.

Even if he did hit the weakpoints it would just deal the stock 7 damage, if not 6 because of scaling.

You just can't read, can you? The Furis outclasses both these weapons by far.

Edited June 4, 2013 by RAVVSlathotep

[Second_Measure]

You just can't read, can you?

I am fully able to read, but thank you for your concern.

 

So complaining about a S#&$ weapon won't make it a better?

Complaining can be done in various ways. But not all of them are constructive, however.

 

The Furis outclasses both these weapons by far.

It can kill those level 15 Grineer at level 1 with the same way he did with the Dera ? Wow, that's quite a gun that kicks &#!!