Melee, General Additions And Feedback.

[P1RAT3]

This is going to be a general topic about ALL melee weapons, animations, damage, combos, AND WALLRUNNING etc.. Stick through and hear what I have to say as it's usually pretty good when i'm not being an a-hole to random people. I'm Pirate, if you don't know me, it's probably because you're new and I hate posting on the forums, but that's aside from the point. My favorite thing about Warframe is the entire "Ninja-Melee-Parkour-Powers" set up we currently have going on, as such, my favorite frame is and always will be Mag [she needs some buffs, and they said they would fix that, YAYYYYYY!] Drifting again, if you've played with me, you'll know that somehow I always manage to beat everyone to exits even when I'm playing Rhino and am leagues behind you, that's because I break maps [sorry Sinbad xD] and spent countless hours figuring out obscure as hell wallrunning combos that most people wouldn't have even thought of if they tried. I'm cool like that. Also a huge fan of parkouring in combination with melee for sexy looking kills. [seriously, sometimes it's like my keyboard has its own nightstand. *wink wink*] 

 

Brilliant &#! topic for redesigning the dodges! - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/71589-de-please-improve-the-dodge-maneuver-redesign-suggestions-in-op/

VERY GOOD READ ^ - P1RAT3 Approved. +1

 

NOW FOR THE TOPIC ITSELF

I'll start with a list and break it down from there.

 

-Melee animations are lacking

-Melee attacks are unvaried

-Lots of bugs with the wallslash maneuver

-^ Looks the same on every weapon.

-No melee combos

-No melee set up attacks

-EDIT: PATCHED -Very buggy jump attacks [if you haven't done a jump attack in a while, notice the slow freaking drift downwards in a random &#! pattern that you really have no control over. It irks me.] 

-New animation update for the climbing onto an object is severely bugged. [Teleports ahoy! Especially if you're using a fast frame.]

-Lack of wall running maneuvers and tricks.

-Climbing onto an object repeatedly when I'm clearly sprinting at it from an angle. [Possible edge-detection glitch]

 

WHEW. K I think that's enough for now, I'll break them down further. This might be a long discussion so grab your favorite Mountain Dew beverage and Doritos to cry over X-BonerKill 0ne while you read.

 

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Melee animations, varied attacks, combos/setups~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

-Every melee weapon has exactly 3 attack animations that they repeat over and over, that particular point doesn't bother me so much as I rarely normal attack but it is an issue. Repetition kills kittens. You don't want to kill kittens... or do you? HELP IM ALLERGIC TO ADORABLENESS. *thwak*.

 

-Now I noticed this the other day, and it started to bug me more and more the more and more I thought about it [crap, just killed a kitten =/]. As a game that is mainly "hack-and-slash" action, why don't we actually have hack and slash action.... I'm assuming you've played Dynasty Warriors before, now that game made me shtbrix with it's immense combos and attacks and crazy &#! things you could do with your weapon. I personally don't care about having that many animations, but the combos man... the combos. There should be a system where you can alternate between regular and charged attacks to do nifty animations and possibly extra effects depending on the weapon , which also brings into play melee set up attacks, like a knock up, such as the one the fists do. And then you can follow up with a certain key press [i.E. Charge an attack then press jump to launch yourself into the air as well to perform some follow up attacks on the airborne enemy.] creating a system where more than one animation and attack can be used while in the air, stunlocking certain humanoid-esque bosses and providing unique animations and attacks for each weapon [type, making one for every weapon would be insane, and really cool plis do that :>], perhaps even introducing an "air-finish" move type of attack, slamming your weapon downwards and impaling enemies or crushing them depending on the weapon used for the finale.

 

 

-The slideslash/wallslash attack, ok honestly this is what I use the majority of the time. Including some slidecharge attacks and what not. A couple of more varied animations rather than the normal spin then slash around with most weapons would be nice. However, the wallslash is bugged as all hell. In the majority of cases, if i'm not using the Orthos/polearm, my wallslashes won't hit the broadside of a barn, even if I can see my weapon directly connect with the enemies' face. I just collide and then continue to hold that wallslash animation until my feet touch solid ground, the problem with this is that sometimes I'm not trying to hit solid ground, and I'm stuck in that animation; unable to do anything until my frame finishes falling off 1912323145 cliffs/edges doing that stupid diveroll they always do. There needs to be a way to cancel it out. Not maybe someday, there NEEDS to be a way to cancel it out, more times than naught if I accidentally go balls deep on a ridiculous wall run and need to use that wallslash to reach an edge and MISS [god forbid me messing up, I totally never do that] I am stuck in a perpetual wallslash to continuously fall into nothingness only to be put back in the place I was before and roll of the edge again because I CANT FREAKING STOP THE ANIMATION. I've lost a few rare 5 cores and man did I need to look up some srs Kawaii asian schoolgirls in kawaii outfits doing kawaii things on YouTube to feel better. A system for using the slide attacks to set up aforementioned combos, with a series of keypresses [i.E. Sprint > Crouch >Slash > Jump for an uppercut slash or Sprint > Jump Crouch > Slash for a spinning downslash //SIMILAR ANIMATION TO THE STEALTH ATTACK WITH POLEARM??

 

- Wallslashing needs a few more tweaks as I previously stated [mainly hit detection] and maybe just throw in a couple new attacks here and there, every update or so. Charge attacks/ normal attacks from a wall while launching off of it would be hardcore baller status. Maybe even allow running wall slashes so you don't have to launch off the wall, and finally give use to that extraneous dodge function.

 

-EDIT: IZ PATCHED - Jump attacks... not much to say here, besides allow frames to use normal attacks mid air and use the charge attack for a finisher like the one we have currently [hopefully less wonky and not slo-mo]. although this might require a bit more of a jump height being implemented/less gravitational pull. But we are in space, so gravity doesn't have to be the exact same for every planet

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wall running/Actual parkour~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

----Making the wall running flow smoother would be nice [in order to hit some of my jumps I have to literally aim backwards on the object to run forwards, it's wacked but I still love it.]

 

--- Add functionality to opt out of the "pull yourself up maneuver", Example, holding space and sprint while in the "climb" will launch your frame forward towards the direction the camera is facing. Such as: Handspringing off railings, boxes, etc... to launch forward in a similar manner [with similar momentum hopefully, but probably reduced] as wall launching.... OR Grabbing the ledge for a moment and launching yourself backwards in a similar animation to the backwards flip off the walls, preferably with a bit more momentum and flow. Just adding this ^^^<<<<>>>>^^^ will, not can, WILL open up new possibilities for me and the other avid parkour fans out there and definitely attract more people to the game. ESPECIALLY if included in new melee attack combos and what not. 

 

 

~~~P1RAT3's Th0ughtz~~~

 

I am totally aware that most of this stuff would require hours and hours of work and I understand it would not be immediate, probably not even within a month to get a fraction of this done [unless it's in update 10. <-- NOT A SUGGESTION, THAT MEANS DO IT.... plis. :>] But if you do manage to pull even half this crap I talked about and spent  hours writing [it's 5:30 AM, I mighta kinda sorta probably dozed off a bit here and there, sorry for the unintelligibleness in that case.] you can consider this game one step closer to a 10/10 F2PMMORTSRPGFPSMOBA game...thing.... plus it has ninjas. But everyone knows pirates are better. [NEW WARFRAME IDEA LOL? XD? No seriously. Please. Organic Bioswag suits of destruction and #hashtagyolo420blazeit are cool, but a more human frame... preferably male, with a scarf. Would be really neat and I could literally write a few hundred pages of lore just about this game already //Queue spongebob - "iiiimMMAAAAGIIINNAAaattioonnn".gif//]

 

 

SIDENOTE OF THE "UNTIL I FEEL LIKE EDITING AND CHANGING THIS SIDENOTE" DAY: Why the hell don't all melee weapons hit multiple enemies? It's not like the swords aren't big enough, I mean... I can understand daggers and fists being single target... But swords? Wat...?

Edited July 2, 2013 by P1RAT3

[P1RAT3]

shameless self bump, this topic needs to get noticed.

 

[VendettaMachine]

I love the idea of melee being a viable primary option rather than vaguely complementary as it is now. Given that there exist frames like Excalibur (named after a sword), it would be nice to see players consistently on the front line of combat in addition to and supplemental of those maintaining their range. Also, thus far, I don't see any benefit of using a single-target melee weapon over any with cleave. I think some adjustments are in order there, assuming I'm not missing anything too terribly key.


P.S.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph for just a minute to play a round of M Prime on Mercury and try the wall-run melee skill I didn't previously know existed totally knew about and use all the time.

[P1RAT3]

Also should add that regular attacks need a drastic buff. Holding E is boring.

[tommyrt]

Hire this guy to be an honourable dev team member. And pay him in content and sugar

[Asanogawa]

Well said. Another game to look at for inspiration in this department is ninja gaiden....dem animations are crazy.

[DreadScourge]

slash slash slash does get boring after a while...

[Lukap99]

Combo systems are a little out of reach for our beloved devs. if they can't create a proper grappling hook would you really trust them with something as complex as a combo system? Besides, the current mods we have wouldn't function well with a combo system ( well, actually, they would - but they would need a s**t ton of tweaking,buffing and nerfing to get them to balance properly).

[P1RAT3]

Combo systems are a little out of reach for our beloved devs. if they can't create a proper grappling hook would you really trust them with something as complex as a combo system? Besides, the current mods we have wouldn't function well with a combo system ( well, actually, they would - but they would need a s**t ton of tweaking,buffing and nerfing to get them to balance properly).

I did say I was aware that it would take a long time to even implement a fraction of what I suggested. But it's really not that far out of the dev world, grapppling hook is something completely different than normal melee and as such it's more complicated, but even adding in more animations to the melee attacks would make it 10x better than it is now. After the additional animations are done for normal melee, they can slowly start to add in the combo moves and other things, as I said somewhere in there, an additional animation every hotfix or update or so. As for the mods, they lack balance as is right now, so I fail to see how they would be imbalanced for comboing which would really only work on higher level mobs anyways, a modded and maxed melee weapon can cut through most trash mobs in a few hits or less. So the only benefit from even using a combo would be to single out a healthpool target. [i.E.- A rhino putting up Iron Skin and then combo launching a toxic ancient into the air to beat him down, then sick ground finish and move on - you know that would look really freaking awesome]. 

 

Continuing, even then it's not like you are putting a "combo" move every melee attack, Just like in Dynasty Warriors maybe the weapons can be limited to just a few the less/more powerful they are. Example - Low charge damage weapons would get a myriad of combos since they don't do a whole ton of damage and need that extra "oompf" to be useful; whereas the high charge damage weapons would get only a few, maybe a launch of a slash finisher. 

 

But I digress, the main reason I added this post was because I love to melee in combination with the parkour and powers of my frame and it gets boring after a few minutes just seeing the same animations over and over. Not that I blame them, it is a crap ton of work. [Even then maybe you can give combos and new animations based on the handles instead of the individual weapons, at least until a much later date? That way it adds fresh new things and doesn't require OT at work. :)]

[P1RAT3]

Hire this guy to be an honorary dev team member. And pay him in content and dates with Rebecca 

 

I approve of this. ^(n.n)>

[DrummerSoul13]

real awesome suggestion and this game kinda desperately needs these ideas unfortunately it will take perhaps half a year at minimum to complete the coding and shizz for these stuff + even if they manage to code it it will definately have tonnes of bugs and perhaps maybe certain exploits that will take months to fix. it should be in their cue but its not something they should be rushing about. the game is really polished and this melee systems has to be real polished too XD also this might make the use of guns rather useless at some point.

Edited July 3, 2013 by DrummerSoul13

[P1RAT3]

real awesome suggestion and this game kinda desperately needs these ideas unfortunately it will take perhaps half a year at minimum to complete the coding and shizz for these stuff + even if they manage to code it it will definately have tonnes of bugs and perhaps maybe certain exploits that will take months to fix. it should be in their cue but its not something they should be rushing about. the game is really polished and this melee systems has to be real polished too XD also this might make the use of guns rather useless at some point.

While I don't particularly agree with the time period it would take I do think this should be one of their more important priorities. Guns will never be useless because the simple fact that most melee weapons can't be aimed at critical weak points. This game is far from polished and that's why we're here. To provide new ideas and feedback on how to make the game more polished and better. I slowly find myself losing interest in this game even though I don't want to. It desperately needs something new and fresh like this melee system. The grappling hook itself is a terrible idea but I'm just one person who disagrees. The fact is that once you max your mods and weapons like I have this game no longer provides entertaining experiences or progression. We barely even have customizable frames. Most of my friends and older players are already not playing as much or have quit the game entirely. They need something new. Not new weapons or a crap new frame. Something NEW.

[DrummerSoul13]

While I don't particularly agree with the time period it would take I do think this should be one of their more important priorities. Guns will never be useless because the simple fact that most melee weapons can't be aimed at critical weak points. This game is far from polished and that's why we're here. To provide new ideas and feedback on how to make the game more polished and better. I slowly find myself losing interest in this game even though I don't want to. It desperately needs something new and fresh like this melee system. The grappling hook itself is a terrible idea but I'm just one person who disagrees. The fact is that once you max your mods and weapons like I have this game no longer provides entertaining experiences or progression. We barely even have customizable frames. Most of my friends and older players are already not playing as much or have quit the game entirely. They need something new. Not new weapons or a crap new frame. Something NEW.

The only reason I would set the time period for at least 6 month is because this melee system imo would be tough to code + they have many other things in their que that they probably will prioritize over this new melee system ie: proper bug fixes that they have not fixed completely the past months, frame balance etc. Most likely i will look at how they improve ash's "blade storm" animation first as it is probably the first step to more melee animations for the game. (i believe they were looking into bladestorm's animation redesign since a few months ago and its still in the works)

Also i still do think that this game is polished but not polished to perfection, if it were perfect then i agree there is no need for the design council. What they did as of now is no easy feat at all, especially when they are a company that gets their funds directly from plat/founder package buyers. I heavily agree that grappling hooks are completely unnecessary for this game...it reduces the use of wall runs and reduce the challenge of the game to a certain extent. I also agree on how when you max your weapons etc you lose the entertaining experience and progression in the game as I have maxed out my ash and hek to perfection in a rush. Right now I'm taking things slowly with other weapons prefering to level weapons I dont have instead of repolarising weapons/frames to its fullest potential.

I feel like I'm missing alot of things in this post but I'll leave it for some other time cos I can't seem to recall them now atm...hahaha btw watch the latest stream for info on animation :D incase you missed it although i think you wont.

Edited July 4, 2013 by DrummerSoul13

[P1RAT3]

The only reason I would set the time period for at least 6 month is because this melee system imo would be tough to code + they have many other things in their que that they probably will prioritize over this new melee system ie: proper bug fixes that they have not fixed completely the past months, frame balance etc. Most likely i will look at how they improve ash's "blade storm" animation first as it is probably the first step to more melee animations for the game. (i believe they were looking into bladestorm's animation redesign since a few months ago and its still in the works)

It would be slightly harder to code, but even then they could broad spectrum the animations into basic categories to make it easier. Example: Short, Long, Heavy. Similar to what they're supposedly doing for the warframe movements by breaking them down to male/female; maybe, if we're lucky: light, medium, and heavy as well..... I honestly think this shouldn't be given the "we're thinking about it" response as it would add a whole new depth of play to warframe. Much more than a new melee or primary/secondary gives. I'd be satisfied if they just cut out new weapons entirely to devote themselves into animating and coding new melee animations like this and making the block/dodge functions actually do something. Or maybe just laying off releasing multiple weapons every few hotfixes and only do them near/during the big updates.

 

Also in the process of watching the livestream right now, wasn't able to watch since I was at work.

 

EDIT: 34mins in, they talked about combos and new melees and chains. OMG YES, but it wont be to the extent I want it to be, but meh thats fine, I'd be happy with anything at this point. :D

Edited July 4, 2013 by P1RAT3