Concerns / Benefits Of The Clan Alliance System - Updated

[pdxdubin]

Check out this thread as well: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/76283-de-a-personal-opinion-on-alliances-and-events-what-can-be-changed-what-to-improve/

I posted a few ideas that i have gotten so far, as to specifically update / change this alliance system for the better. 

 

 

Update: Another point someone has conveyed to me that I agree with 100%

 

About clan balance.

 

**Following are the Clan ‘tiers’ and Clan Rewards:
1-10 members: Top 10 Clans

11-100 members: Top 5 clans

101-1000 members: Top 3 clans

1001+ members: Top 3 clans

 

DE this is your current bracket.

I would like you to explain to me.

What is the difference between a clan of 1001 players, competing with a clan of 4000 players?

From a clan of 101 players competing with a clan of 1000 players.

 

Because If reasoning for this change is to make these events fair, Then I see no fairness in slashing large clans.

Because no matter how you cut it, the size of a clan is an asset that is not given but earned.

We built our communities, we pay for websites, and we host events.

Mike B earned his subscribers, and his members followed him for a reason.

 

We do things that these small clans don't.  

And putting us on the same level as a clan of only 1000 makes no justified sense.

You see DE, its not the clans It is your system that is broken.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Original Post:

 

 

DE please reconsider what you’re doing, large clans are there because of their great communities. and their awesome players.  None of us zerg built clans like broframe did.  We do not deserve this split because we built up our communities over a long period of time.

 

We’re not getting any lag, and we worked VERY hard to try and prove to everyone that size does not matter.

We almost won this event by 30k.  Warframe japan kept up with us, with only 1000 or so members, almost a quarter of the size of broframe.

 

DE just because a clan is large or small, does not mean they are exploiting the system.

There is no unfair advantage, for a large clan.

They earned there members, and they deserve to be in the top. 

Why bring everyone down to a cap of 1000?  In war, do they limit the amount of soldiers you can bring?  Do we have equal numbers in Iraq?  No.

 Numbers are power, and we strive for power. We join a clan because of its appeal, whether it’s the meaning, the size, or the community.  Large clans have all of these at the same time.

This change seems like a quick excuse to cut large clans while ignoring the inherent issues with the servers.  And to me that's a huge slap in the face to all 13 of us who are getting slashed.

 

I hope we can sway the minds of DE and stop this nonsense. 

 

 

- 

 

A very thoughtful post from one of our members: 

 

MangoMonkey

 

The thing is that, currently, large clans work as a sort of "microcosm" of the whole community. One that is more intensely moderated and controlled, and thus infinitely more useful, than the other chat systems in-game.

 

I'll lay it out better than that. I recently joined Asuro. I won't lie to anyone, I wanted access to the research within the dojo, and they seemed like a really friendly group of people on the forums. They are. The thing was that, after buying my blueprints, I didn't leave. I hovered in the clan chat a little, and began to see that the real appeal of a truly large clan is that it's a community within a community. I joined several Void runs, and found several players needing to be taken to Alert missions I'd unlocked. The whole thing worked so well in comparison to the usual matchmaking system, because it's controlled by the players and moderated by the same. It's a more tolerant, friendlier environment within which to play the game and organise your teams.

 

Rather than having to deal with the sheer volume of outright stupid present in region chat, with the constant spamming and insults traded all the damn time, the Clan chat allows you to find games all the time. To pick up players for Void runs or material farms. The reason this works so well is because of the size of the clan - it's a real subsection of the community, and such Clans operate as a sort of "filter" system to dilute the entire game population down to those you're most likely to mesh with and whose goals are closer to yours. If you cap that, at whatever arbitrary number you choose, then you remove that functionality from them.

A thousand player clan is big, but it's still a quarter of the current Clan size. This means, inherently, that I'd have only a quarter of the chance I currently have to find the games I want to run. And that's not a good thing, nor an upgrade, no matter how DE dresses it up.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

Compacted thread due to formatting problems, Thanks raptor.

 

See you can flame, and you can actually help people fix problems.

 

+1 

 

 

Hello. I'm the leader of asuro. So before you read this. Understand it is a rant in some parts, and a discussion in others. I do not oppose this system whatsoever. There just needs to be clarification.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning this new system. I honestly don't really understand it. Basically instead of capping large clans. They are letting them form alliances and continue to recruit new players? It makes no sense honestly. Unless. They plan to keep the top events at 1000 players. Which would be an even bigger problem. ( those of you who hate large clans, I already know your going to disagree ) But those of you in broframe, and Gryphus tech, warbroz, AsurO, warframe japan. If we get split into separate clans.   I believe that means Each separate clan will have to compete for events. Rebecca said herself this system was created to promote fairness. If a large clan is to split 100% of their active player-base into 1000 sizes pieces. They will literally just decimate their chances in any sort of competition whatsoever.  And that's not "fair"  to large clans.  If you have 1400 members.  Then you only have two 700 player clans. Good luck competing with a clan of 1000 people now.

 

IE: We have 4000 members.

 

We predict 3000 of them are active. The other 1000 are weekend warriors, or they stopped playing.

 

Now.

 

There are 4 asuro clans.

 

900 active people get put into 1 asuro clan, 500 active people join another asuro clan 600 active people join another.

 

another 1000 join another?

 

While the rest of our casual players join in? Not that we don't allow casual players. This was the whole point of our clan. To let casual players and hardcore players sit in a community that they can call home. DE this system will basically force us to categorize our players in order to maintain a competitive chance in these events.

And I will not categorize our players, that is unfair. I wont do it, because in my eyes.  Every player is equal. No one looks down on other players, But we respect the effort that others put in for these events.

 

Now I may not understand this change, the details were slim. But this new system does not fix large clans, It basically gives them the ability to envelop entire clans with their alliance? This is going to give an entire new set of problems to the game. Now not to throw stones. I have no problem with broframe. But this entire change was based on lagging games,  Which only broframe is getting. No one else. And half of their clan is full of alts / inactive players. This event proved it. With half their members we were only 30k kills apart. So why would you directly reference a clan, by saying clans of 7k are causing performance issues? Its their own fault for allowing every single member in the clan to invite anyone and everyone. Even their own alts to the clan. If anything we should just cut all the inactive players out of broframe, and just delete the 1k pending invites they have. I'm sure it will fix their lag. And as long as you keep the brackets open, Any clan has a chance to compete at higher levels.

 

Just because a clan of 2000 has to compete with a clan of 1000 players does not mean there is an unfair advantage. The clan with 2000 people obviously worked harder to recruit, and has more appeal in players because of so. Now cutting this clan in half to accommodate to smaller ones, Is actually unfair for the large clan.

Its not like large clans are exploiting the game? We all started out with 1 player. There is no unfairness that one clan is capable of recruiting better then another. That's the point of a clan.   Otherwise why even let people recruit? Why not just split the player-base into 1000 parts as well, and name them by numbers.

 

On the other hand. I'm not complaining... This system sounds great if it goes how it should. I always talked about alliances, and I really do think this change is the right thing to do. We thought about making up cities, and imagine asuro as a continent. It would be cool if players could join / leave each separate clan in the asuro alliance freely. While staying in contact with players from each section. That sounds great!

 

But the reasoning for this change, does not make sense. Unless they plan to add a new bracket to competitions that is associated with alliances. So that entire alliances can compete for global events. Now that sounds fun.

 

But then, DE What happens when the need to just form a massive mega alliance happens? So that every clan can win events and just decimate the opposition? Once again. This does not make sense no matter how it spun.

 

But to all the other large clans. The 13 of you guys. None of us have any lag issues. And unfairness in events, Due to sizes of a clan? I do believe that large clans should be capped. And that the dojos need to be fixed. But DE as you can see. Just because a clan has numbers. Does not mean small clans cannot compete with them. This event proved that 100% Warframe japan has half our members. They kept up. Broframe is double the size of asuro. The difference is so small that each of these clans might as well be the same size. You see. The clans are not the problem. It is the dojo system. And the event system. You need to make it easier for small clans to function. so that the need for large clans goes away. You need to make the events more balanced. I think that instead of making it a direct competition.The event should be a standard. Based on the clan tiers. So that clans of 1000 people need to do this much to win this statue. As if its a goal. Because why should tenno compete with each-other? There will always be unfair situations. There will be exploits and people who complain.

 

Either way. Hopefully it works out. Sorry for the rant.

 

I'm open for discussion just please be positive about it so that we can all learn something and share ideas / concerns.

 

Thanks!

Edited July 9, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Guest]

Dude... why don't you make your post a little more compact? It is painful just to look at, not to mention read!

[pdxdubin]

Dude... why don't you make your post a little more compact? It is painful just to look at, not to mention read!

 

I'm sorry about that.

 

I love this game and was a little flustered when I wrote this.

Edited July 9, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Guest]

oh boy

if this "clan splitting" thing comes into fruition, things are gonna get a hellova lot more complicated

 

EDIT:: I take it back, things aren't as bad as I had expected

Edited September 6, 2013 by Guest

[pdxdubin]

oh boy

if this "clan splitting" thing comes into fruition, things are gonna get a hellova lot more complicated

Everything is going to go to mush

 

Big clans will keep getting bigger

 

small clans will not see any difference.

 

As well as alliances trying to envelop everyone else.

[Raptorbones]

Well If I compacted everything It would be even more difficult to read.

 

Its just double space formatting.  

 

Except you separate each line instead of using the marvelous thing known as paragraphs.

[Gameoverman]

every line that I read made me feel more stupid

how do you even manage to get the balls to make threads like this I mean wow

[pdxdubin]

Except you separate each line instead of using the marvelous thing known as paragraphs.

 

Yea I think I made it better.

Sorry about that I was not really trying to convey my rant with an essay :P

[pdxdubin]

every line that I read made me feel more stupid

how do you even manage to get the balls to make threads like this I mean wow

 

Why post in this thread if all you can manage to do is flame.

 

Ignorance 

[Kroul]

I think that instead of making it a direct competition.

The event should be a standard.

Based on the clan teirs.

So that clans of 1000 people need to do this much to win this statue.

As if its a goal.

Because why should tenno compete with each-other?

 

 

Im throwing +1s at the screen but it only went up once.

[VScipii26]

Well If I compacted everything It would be even more difficult to read.

 

Its just double space formatting.  

Uhh...no.

What' you're doing is double, triple, or single spacing after EVERY sentence. It makes that one post take up more than half the space of this whole page.

There's a reason paragraphs are used, and that you put sentences that follow the same idea together.

I can't read this. THis is not double spacing format, this is asinine structure. Please fix it, and then more people will consider it.

[Raptorbones]

Hello. I'm the leader of asuro. So before you read this. Understand it is a rant in some parts, and a discussion in others. I do not oppose this system whatsoever. There just needs to be clarification. 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning this new system. I honestly don't really understand it. Basically instead of capping large clans. They are letting them form alliances and continue to recruit new players? It makes no sense honestly. Unless. They plan to keep the top events at 1000 players. Which would be an even bigger problem. ( those of you who hate large clans, I already know your going to disagree ) But those of you in broframe, and Gryphus tech, warbroz, AsurO, warframe japan. If we get split into separate clans.   I believe that means Each separate clan will have to compete for events. Rebecca said herself this system was created to promote fairness. If a large clan is to split 100% of their active player-base into 1000 sizes pieces. They will literally just decimate their chances in any sort of competition whatsoever.  And that's not "fair"  to large clans.  If you have 1400 members.  Then you only have two 700 player clans. Good luck competing with a clan of 1000 people now.

 

IE: We have 4000 members.

 

We predict 3000 of them are active. The other 1000 are weekend warriors, or they stopped playing.

 

Now.

 

There are 4 asuro clans.

 

900 active people get put into 1 asuro clan, 500 active people join another asuro clan 600 active people join another.

 

another 1000 join another?

 

While the rest of our casual players join in? Not that we don't allow casual players. This was the whole point of our clan. To let casual players and hardcore players sit in a community that they can call home. DE this system will basically force us to categorize our players in order to maintain a competitive chance in these events.

And I will not categorize our players, that is unfair. I wont do it, because in my eyes.  Every player is equal. No one looks down on other players, But we respect the effort that others put in for these events.

 

Now I may not understand this change, the details were slim. But this new system does not fix large clans, It basically gives them the ability to envelop entire clans with their alliance? This is going to give an entire new set of problems to the game. Now not to throw stones. I have no problem with broframe. But this entire change was based on lagging games,  Which only broframe is getting. No one else. And half of their clan is full of alts / inactive players. This event proved it. With half their members we were only 30k kills apart. So why would you directly reference a clan, by saying clans of 7k are causing performance issues? Its their own fault for allowing every single member in the clan to invite anyone and everyone. Even their own alts to the clan. If anything we should just cut all the inactive players out of broframe, and just delete the 1k pending invites they have. I'm sure it will fix their lag. And as long as you keep the brackets open, Any clan has a chance to compete at higher levels.

 

Just because a clan of 2000 has to compete with a clan of 1000 players does not mean there is an unfair advantage. The clan with 2000 people obviously worked harder to recruit, and has more appeal in players because of so. Now cutting this clan in half to accommodate to smaller ones, Is actually unfair for the large clan.

 Its not like large clans are exploiting the game? We all started out with 1 player. There is no unfairness that one clan is capable of recruiting better then another. That's the point of a clan.   Otherwise why even let people recruit? Why not just split the player-base into 1000 parts as well, and name them by numbers.

 

On the other hand. I'm not complaining... This system sounds great if it goes how it should. I always talked about alliances, and I really do think this change is the right thing to do. We thought about making up cities, and imagine asuro as a continent. It would be cool if players could join / leave each separate clan in the asuro alliance freely. While staying in contact with players from each section. That sounds great!

 

But the reasoning for this change, does not make sense. Unless they plan to add a new bracket to competitions that is associated with alliances. So that entire alliances can compete for global events. Now that sounds fun.

 

But then, DE What happens when the need to just form a massive mega alliance happens? So that every clan can win events and just decimate the opposition? Once again. This does not make sense no matter how it spun.

 

But to all the other large clans. The 13 of you guys. None of us have any lag issues. And unfairness in events, Due to sizes of a clan? I do believe that large clans should be capped. And that the dojos need to be fixed. But DE as you can see. Just because a clan has numbers. Does not mean small clans cannot compete with them. This event proved that 100% Warframe japan has half our members. They kept up. Broframe is double the size of asuro. The difference is so small that each of these clans might as well be the same size. You see. The clans are not the problem. It is the dojo system. And the event system. You need to make it easier for small clans to function. so that the need for large clans goes away. You need to make the events more balanced. I think that instead of making it a direct competition.The event should be a standard. Based on the clan tiers. So that clans of 1000 people need to do this much to win this statue. As if its a goal. Because why should tenno compete with each-other? There will always be unfair situations. There will be exploits and people who complain.

 

Either way. Hopefully it works out. Sorry for the rant.

 

I'm open for discussion just please be positive about it so that we can all learn something and share ideas / concerns.

 

Thanks!

Oh hey look OP's post how anyone else would have laid it out

[pdxdubin]

Uhh...no.

What' you're doing is double, triple, or single spacing after EVERY sentence. It makes that one post take up more than half the space of this whole page.

There's a reason paragraphs are used, and that you put sentences that follow the same idea together.

I can't read this. THis is not double spacing format, this is asinine structure. Please fix it, and then more people will consider it.

Its good enough, feel free to read it or not.

 

I'm not demanding you to read it.

[pdxdubin]

Oh hey look OP's post how anyone else would have laid it out

 

Thank you for actually helping me fix it.

 

I honestly guess I'm not the best at formatting. 

 

I majored in art :P 

Edited July 8, 2013 by pdxdubin

[pdxdubin]

DE all I want to say

 

Is that I feel you guys are half assing this change to insta fix the problems with broframe.

 

And only broframe.

 

As you can see other clans worked super hard to prove themselves.

 

Us included.

 

Warframe japan.

 

Holy cow.

 

 

And All I can say is that if you guys half &#! this.

 

And If it does not go right the first time.

 

" Interface issues, management issues, dojo issues, bugs, exploits, " 

 

 

I think everything is going to go to S#&$.

 

Sorry.

 

But I don't think there is anything we can do to fix this situation.

So here's hoping DE pulls an ace out of their sleeve and makes this game better for everyone.

[pdxdubin]

Another concern.

Why are you splitting the dojo up as well?

Why not just make the original dojo apply to the alliances.

 

That seems so stupid.

Because then your splitting up the people that use the dojo?

 

Why? 

 

 

Then clan leaders are going to have to micromanage everything at the same time

 

And there will be confusion

 

and 

 

*face desk* 

[Madotsuki]

I'm the head of the Lone Rangers, and here is my experience and thoughts on the subject.

First off, we were lucky enough to have been just over 1000 at the start of the Informer event, so clearing out our pending invites list and halting recruitment managed to keep us just below 1000. Why did I have to do this? So we won't get thrown into the same tier as you guys, or Broframe/Gryphus/WarframeJapan. With your size advantages, we wouldn't have stood a chance at the statue.

Now, could this be solved by adding more tiers to make the competition in each tier more even? Yes, that could work. However, putting a cap on clan sizes does the same thing while making the tiering less complicated.

Personally, I don't mind an Alliance system. It lets large clans expand beyond the original cap of 2000 members, which benefits mega-corp clans such as you guys, while keeping competition fair. However, we don't know how the system will work, and there ARE a few things that bug me.

For example, according to the dev's thread, a clan above the size of 1000 will be split into two or more clans upon the arrival of clan tiering. How will the members be split, completely randomly? Take for example a clan with 1500 members, will each split clan have 750, or will the original maintain 1000 while the other gets 500? This heavily imbalances "subdivisions" of large clans since there are significant amounts of inactive players in them that can get thrown every which way from the clan tiering. This would not be a problem if players could actively move from clan to clan within an alliance, so I can send a Warlord to govern Lone Rangers Second Division or something, or move a portion of active players back to the main clan etc, but we don't know if DE will let us do that, and that worries me.

Also, will there be a Top Alliance category for the leaderboards of future events alongside the Top Clans categories? That's another good question.

And how will we recruit, or create new subdivisions after clan tiering is implemented? Can I keep one recruitment thread and freely decide which subdivision to put recruits in, or do i have to make a thread for every single subdivision, which would clutter up the recruitment page to no end? Can I make a Third Division from the main clan and just move one of my Warlords over to govern it, or do i have to find someone external to start a Third Division and then ally with them? If a start a Third Division after clan tiering is implemented, is my current dojo on the main clan copy-pasted onto the Third Division, or do i have to build a new one? Will we even HAVE a main clan to co-ordinate the rest of the clans such as moving players about/starting new divisions, or will all clans just be equal in terms of power?

There's A LOT of things we don't know about the Alliance system, and the future of large clans such as yourself and myself in the future (hopefully) rests on whether DE can get the system right. For now, I suppose all we can do is write suggestion threads and hope DE will listen to us :/

Oh and I totally agree with the "all clans should be able to get a statue" thing. IMO, all clans should be able to get the memorabilia from the event given that they contribute a certain amount to it, based on their clan tier, so that all clans can feel like they can get something from the event. To continue to promote "friendly" competition, the Top Clans and Alliances of each tier can get a "deluxe" edition of the memorabilia to reward them for their effort.

[Solaurus]

Compacted thread due to formatting problems, Thanks raptor.

 

See you can flame, and you can actually help people fix problems.

 

+1 

 

 

Hello. I'm the leader of asuro. So before you read this. Understand it is a rant in some parts, and a discussion in others. I do not oppose this system whatsoever. There just needs to be clarification.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning this new system. I honestly don't really understand it. Basically instead of capping large clans. They are letting them form alliances and continue to recruit new players? It makes no sense honestly. Unless. They plan to keep the top events at 1000 players. Which would be an even bigger problem. ( those of you who hate large clans, I already know your going to disagree ) But those of you in broframe, and Gryphus tech, warbroz, AsurO, warframe japan. If we get split into separate clans.   I believe that means Each separate clan will have to compete for events. Rebecca said herself this system was created to promote fairness. If a large clan is to split 100% of their active player-base into 1000 sizes pieces. They will literally just decimate their chances in any sort of competition whatsoever.  And that's not "fair"  to large clans.  If you have 1400 members.  Then you only have two 700 player clans. Good luck competing with a clan of 1000 people now.

 

IE: We have 4000 members.

 

We predict 3000 of them are active. The other 1000 are weekend warriors, or they stopped playing.

 

Now.

 

There are 4 asuro clans.

 

900 active people get put into 1 asuro clan, 500 active people join another asuro clan 600 active people join another.

 

another 1000 join another?

 

While the rest of our casual players join in? Not that we don't allow casual players. This was the whole point of our clan. To let casual players and hardcore players sit in a community that they can call home. DE this system will basically force us to categorize our players in order to maintain a competitive chance in these events.

And I will not categorize our players, that is unfair. I wont do it, because in my eyes.  Every player is equal. No one looks down on other players, But we respect the effort that others put in for these events.

 

Now I may not understand this change, the details were slim. But this new system does not fix large clans, It basically gives them the ability to envelop entire clans with their alliance? This is going to give an entire new set of problems to the game. Now not to throw stones. I have no problem with broframe. But this entire change was based on lagging games,  Which only broframe is getting. No one else. And half of their clan is full of alts / inactive players. This event proved it. With half their members we were only 30k kills apart. So why would you directly reference a clan, by saying clans of 7k are causing performance issues? Its their own fault for allowing every single member in the clan to invite anyone and everyone. Even their own alts to the clan. If anything we should just cut all the inactive players out of broframe, and just delete the 1k pending invites they have. I'm sure it will fix their lag. And as long as you keep the brackets open, Any clan has a chance to compete at higher levels.

 

Just because a clan of 2000 has to compete with a clan of 1000 players does not mean there is an unfair advantage. The clan with 2000 people obviously worked harder to recruit, and has more appeal in players because of so. Now cutting this clan in half to accommodate to smaller ones, Is actually unfair for the large clan.

Its not like large clans are exploiting the game? We all started out with 1 player. There is no unfairness that one clan is capable of recruiting better then another. That's the point of a clan.   Otherwise why even let people recruit? Why not just split the player-base into 1000 parts as well, and name them by numbers.

 

On the other hand. I'm not complaining... This system sounds great if it goes how it should. I always talked about alliances, and I really do think this change is the right thing to do. We thought about making up cities, and imagine asuro as a continent. It would be cool if players could join / leave each separate clan in the asuro alliance freely. While staying in contact with players from each section. That sounds great!

 

But the reasoning for this change, does not make sense. Unless they plan to add a new bracket to competitions that is associated with alliances. So that entire alliances can compete for global events. Now that sounds fun.

 

But then, DE What happens when the need to just form a massive mega alliance happens? So that every clan can win events and just decimate the opposition? Once again. This does not make sense no matter how it spun.

 

But to all the other large clans. The 13 of you guys. None of us have any lag issues. And unfairness in events, Due to sizes of a clan? I do believe that large clans should be capped. And that the dojos need to be fixed. But DE as you can see. Just because a clan has numbers. Does not mean small clans cannot compete with them. This event proved that 100% Warframe japan has half our members. They kept up. Broframe is double the size of asuro. The difference is so small that each of these clans might as well be the same size. You see. The clans are not the problem. It is the dojo system. And the event system. You need to make it easier for small clans to function. so that the need for large clans goes away. You need to make the events more balanced. I think that instead of making it a direct competition.The event should be a standard. Based on the clan tiers. So that clans of 1000 people need to do this much to win this statue. As if its a goal. Because why should tenno compete with each-other? There will always be unfair situations. There will be exploits and people who complain.

 

Either way. Hopefully it works out. Sorry for the rant.

 

I'm open for discussion just please be positive about it so that we can all learn something and share ideas / concerns.

 

Thanks!

This!

ASURO SCREECH!!!!! WOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!! ASURO!

[XSuzumeX]

Another concern.

Why are you splitting the dojo up as well?

Why not just make the original dojo apply to the alliances.

 

That seems so stupid.

Because then your splitting up the people that use the dojo?

 

Why? 

 

 

Then clan leaders are going to have to micromanage everything at the same time

 

And there will be confusion

 

and 

 

*face desk* 

The original does get split up

"If your clan is affected by this (presently 13 clans have more than 1000 members, and of these 13, 3 will have to create more than 2 Clans), your Dojo will be copied for your new Clan so no work on your original Dojo is lost."

[pdxdubin]

I'm the head of the Lone Rangers, and here is my experience and thoughts on the subject.

First off, we were lucky enough to have been just over 1000 at the start of the Informer event, so clearing out our pending invites list and halting recruitment managed to keep us just below 1000. Why did I have to do this? So we won't get thrown into the same tier as you guys, or Broframe/Gryphus/WarframeJapan. With your size advantages, we wouldn't have stood a chance at the statue.

Now, could this be solved by adding more tiers to make the competition in each tier more even? Yes, that could work. However, putting a cap on clan sizes does the same thing while making the tiering less complicated.

Personally, I don't mind an Alliance system. It lets large clans expand beyond the original cap of 2000 members, which benefits mega-corp clans such as you guys, while keeping competition fair. However, we don't know how the system will work, and there ARE a few things that bug me.

For example, according to the dev's thread, a clan above the size of 1000 will be split into two or more clans upon the arrival of clan tiering. How will the members be split, completely randomly? Take for example a clan with 1500 members, will each split clan have 750, or will the original maintain 1000 while the other gets 500? This heavily imbalances "subdivisions" of large clans since there are significant amounts of inactive players in them that can get thrown every which way from the clan tiering. This would not be a problem if players could actively move from clan to clan within an alliance, so I can send a Warlord to govern Lone Rangers Second Division or something, or move a portion of active players back to the main clan etc, but we don't know if DE will let us do that, and that worries me.

Also, will there be a Top Alliance category for the leaderboards of future events alongside the Top Clans categories? That's another good question.

And how will we recruit, or create new subdivisions after clan tiering is implemented? Can I keep one recruitment thread and freely decide which subdivision to put recruits in, or do i have to make a thread for every single subdivision, which would clutter up the recruitment page to no end? Can I make a Third Division from the main clan and just move one of my Warlords over to govern it, or do i have to find someone external to start a Third Division and then ally with them? If a start a Third Division after clan tiering is implemented, is my current dojo on the main clan copy-pasted onto the Third Division, or do i have to build a new one? Will we even HAVE a main clan to co-ordinate the rest of the clans such as moving players about/starting new divisions, or will all clans just be equal in terms of power?

There's A LOT of things we don't know about the Alliance system, and the future of large clans such as yourself and myself in the future (hopefully) rests on whether DE can get the system right. For now, I suppose all we can do is write suggestion threads and hope DE will listen to us :/

Oh and I totally agree with the "all clans should be able to get a statue" thing. IMO, all clans should be able to get the memorabilia from the event given that they contribute a certain amount to it, based on their clan tier, so that all clans can feel like they can get something from the event. To continue to promote "friendly" competition, the Top Clans and Alliances of each tier can get a "deluxe" edition of the memorabilia to reward them for their effort.

 

Yea there is a lot we don't know.

I'm putting my cards on the table hoping that DE makes this update right.

 

Because I really hope they are not doing this just to justify slashing large clans down to smaller sizes.

 

And I'ts true.

 

I think you having to compete with people with 7000 players is wrong.

 

 

But what is DE thinking?

 

So are going to see alliances with 4 Asuro  clans taking up all the top 3 slots for 1000+ clans?

 

Or see 4 broframes there?

 

That sound's really stupid lol.

 

 

I'f they add an alliance bracket then I would be more open to this idea.

Or just let the rewards be open to everyone, and direct the competition away from clans.

 

And direct the competition towards the clan itself, as if its an internal goal.

 

who knows.. 

 

I went from being super proud of my clan for doing so well in the event

 

To super confused and worried that this Update might split everyone up and ruin what we spent so much time to establish with our community 

[pdxdubin]

The original does get split up

"If your clan is affected by this (presently 13 clans have more than 1000 members, and of these 13, 3 will have to create more than 2 Clans), your Dojo will be copied for your new Clan so no work on your original Dojo is lost."

Yea I read that

But it sounds so unnecessary.

 

 

IS DE really going to give us 4 dojos?

 

What the heck is the point?

 

Our entire clan shares 1 dojos at the moment.

 

So now there going to split it up? and were going to have to build 4 seperate dojos from the origional?

 

Were going to have to seperatly go in and build 4 parkour rooms?

 

THAT SOUNDS SO ANNOYING AND UNNECESSARY 

 

So the 1000 people in 1 clan contribute to a dojo

 

and the 1000 people in another clan cant use this part unless they contribute to it themselves?

 

DE what are you even?

 

What? 

 

 

 

Just change the clan dojo to the alliance dojo and let us use only one of them.

 

*head desk*

 

 

This update has nothing to do with helping smaller clans at all.

 

its 100% based on making large clans clunky and hard to manage.

 

gg 

Edited July 9, 2013 by pdxdubin

[blackgu4rd]

So they chose to do a cheap, undesired workaround instead of actually fixing the way clan lists work. Brilliant. 

 

*slow clap*

Edited July 9, 2013 by blackgu4rd

[pdxdubin]

So they chose to do a cheap, undesired workaround instead of actually fixing the way clan lists work. Brilliant. 

 

*slow clap*

 

 

This is 100% my worries.

 

There going to slash large clans and not actually fix the problem.

 

Then when alliances get too big.

 

Once again, they will have to go and cut the alliances into some Mega nation because the problem is still there.

 

*face desk(* 

[MangoMonkey]

The thing is that, currently, large clans work as a sort of "microcosm" of the whole community. One that is more intensely moderated and controlled, and thus infinitely more useful, than the other chat systems in-game.

 

I'll lay it out better than that. I recently joined Asuro. I won't lie to anyone, I wanted access to the research within the dojo, and they seemed like a really friendly group of people on the forums. They are. The thing was that, after buying my blueprints, I didn't leave. I hovered in the clan chat a little, and began to see that the real appeal of a truly large clan is that it's a community within a community. I joined several Void runs, and found several players needing to be taken to Alert missions I'd unlocked. The whole thing worked so well in comparison to the usual matchmaking system, because it's controlled by the players and moderated by the same. It's a more tolerant, friendlier environment within which to play the game and organise your teams.

 

Rather than having to deal with the sheer volume of outright stupid present in region chat, with the constant spamming and insults traded all the damn time, the Clan chat allows you to find games all the time. To pick up players for Void runs or material farms. The reason this works so well is because of the size of the clan - it's a real subsection of the community, and such Clans operate as a sort of "filter" system to dilute the entire game population down to those you're most likely to mesh with and whose goals are closer to yours. If you cap that, at whatever arbitrary number you choose, then you remove that functionality from them.

A thousand player clan is big, but it's still a quarter of the current Clan size. This means, inherently, that I'd have only a quarter of the chance I currently have to find the games I want to run. And that's not a good thing, nor an upgrade, no matter how DE dresses it up.

[pdxdubin]

The thing is that, currently, large clans work as a sort of "microcosm" of the whole community. One that is more intensely moderated and controlled, and thus infinitely more useful, than the other chat systems in-game.

 

I'll lay it out better than that. I recently joined Asuro. I won't lie to anyone, I wanted access to the research within the dojo, and they seemed like a really friendly group of people on the forums. They are. The thing was that, after buying my blueprints, I didn't leave. I hovered in the clan chat a little, and began to see that the real appeal of a truly large clan is that it's a community within a community. I joined several Void runs, and found several players needing to be taken to Alert missions I'd unlocked. The whole thing worked so well in comparison to the usual matchmaking system, because it's controlled by the players and moderated by the same. It's a more tolerant, friendlier environment within which to play the game and organise your teams.

 

Rather than having to deal with the sheer volume of outright stupid present in region chat, with the constant spamming and insults traded all the damn time, the Clan chat allows you to find games all the time. To pick up players for Void runs or material farms. The reason this works so well is because of the size of the clan - it's a real subsection of the community, and such Clans operate as a sort of "filter" system to dilute the entire game population down to those you're most likely to mesh with and whose goals are closer to yours. If you cap that, at whatever arbitrary number you choose, then you remove that functionality from them.

A thousand player clan is big, but it's still a quarter of the current Clan size. This means, inherently, that I'd have only a quarter of the chance I currently have to find the games I want to run. And that's not a good thing, nor an upgrade, no matter how DE dresses it up.

 

 

I'm going to add this to the op because you said it so well.

 

Its so inherent that DE is splitting us up, I don't feel the sense of keeping our community together if there giving us 4 dojos.

 

It feels like they will isolate our clan and remove the appeal it originally had, without actually fixing any of the original issues.

 

 

Well said.