Concerns / Benefits Of The Clan Alliance System - Updated

[Orthusaku]

This is something I was thinking about after reading that clans should be capped thread, it would make clans compete against their own clan mates which isn't good, however I do agree there needs to be reasons to have smaller more tight knit clans.

[MangoMonkey]

This is something I was thinking about after reading that clans should be capped thread, it would make clans compete against their own clan mates which isn't good, however I do agree there needs to be reasons to have smaller more tight knit clans.

 

Definitely. I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but I don't think those reasons need to or should come at the expense of the larger clans. Players organise themselves as they wish and a proper solution to the issues would be to support both styles of clan-building - those who like a monolithic "subsection" system I talked about in my post, and those who want a smaller, more close-knit band of brothers.

[blackgu4rd]

The other problem is the number of people usually online in AsurO is no greater than 500 (by my observations), usually with 250-400. Taking 400 as a sample size, dividing those 400 into 4 moon clans and assuming an equal split would result in an average of 100 people online per clan. And since the people checking chat at any given time are about 5-10% of total people online, that would come down to 5-10 people with which to create parties for various purposes. This is not the desired effect. Even with 400 people online, the clan list takes up to 10 minutes to fully populate. There is clearly some inefficient code managing all this. It's a workaround instead of a fix.

 

This is something I was thinking about after reading that clans should be capped thread, it would make clans compete against their own clan mates which isn't good, however I do agree there needs to be reasons to have smaller more tight knit clans.

 

Smaller, tight knit clans are fine if that's what you're going for. If you join a really large clan, that is NOT what you're going for. You want a pick-up-group that isn't composed of random members. Breaking up larger clans into smaller ones also breaks the appeal (and purpose) of large clans.

Edited July 9, 2013 by blackgu4rd

[RagDollRat]

Well as the leader of the War Song Clan this is what I have to say

 

Personally I feel the game needs some for of clan limit, the issue is the only real benefit is that of the labs the creation of mastery rank 7 weapons or the ability to be taken to any mission you need or want doing with allot of leech's. And I feel this is an issue because it promotes inactive members and bloating of mega clans and squandering of small clan's. How is a new clan with no labs to even build a single lab when they cannot recruit new members? When almost all members are part of mega clans that have every room built that has been added to date? They do not wish to put their own resources let allot allot or a hefty chunk towards such dojo advancements. Now that being said I also feel breaking clans up would also be bad unless each section had its own dojo, this way players would have less incentive to ONLY join mega clans for immediate benefits.

 

its like this, who would want or even wish to join or found their own clan when room requirements are so high to build? when they can just join broframe and reap all benefits immediately?

 

it becomes a issue of

 

A:Hey Im the head of the War Song clan had a good game just now would you be interest in joining?

 

B:Well do you have a complete dojo? (Or insert Im already in a mega clan)

 

A:not yet but were working on it!

 

B:nope

 

Also that being said their is no downside to being in broframe except that the name of their clan breaks immersion and does not fit at all in the world.

while small clans come with countless hours of grinding and hard work

 

Its a monopoly at this point

Edited July 9, 2013 by LaoTao

[pdxdubin]

The other problem is the number of people usually online in AsurO is no greater than 500 (by my observations), usually with 250-400. Taking 400 as a sample size, dividing those 400 into 4 moon clans and assuming an equal split would result in an average of 100 people online per clan. And since the people checking chat at any given time are about 5-10% of total people online, that would come down to 5-10 people with which to create parties for various purposes. This is not the desired effect. Even with 400 people online, the clan list takes up to 10 minutes to fully populate. There is clearly some inefficient code managing all this. It's a workaround instead of a fix.

 

 

Smaller, tight knit clans are fine if that's what you're going for. If you join a really large clan, that is NOT what you're going for. You want a pick-up-group that isn't composed of random members. Breaking up larger clans into smaller ones also breaks the appeal (and purpose) of large clans.

 

 

People don't have to join large clans.

 

This is so simple DE

 

Just make smaller clans more viable and the problem will fix itself.

 

This alliance update is only going to make large clans even larger.

 

What is the point?

 

Your about to destroy a good thing. 

[RagDollRat]

The other problem is the number of people usually online in AsurO is no greater than 500 (by my observations), usually with 250-400. Taking 400 as a sample size, dividing those 400 into 4 moon clans and assuming an equal split would result in an average of 100 people online per clan. And since the people checking chat at any given time are about 5-10% of total people online, that would come down to 5-10 people with which to create parties for various purposes. This is not the desired effect. Even with 400 people online, the clan list takes up to 10 minutes to fully populate. There is clearly some inefficient code managing all this. It's a workaround instead of a fix.

 

 

Smaller, tight knit clans are fine if that's what you're going for. If you join a really large clan, that is NOT what you're going for. You want a pick-up-group that isn't composed of random members. Breaking up larger clans into smaller ones also breaks the appeal (and purpose) of large clans.

you dont realize that larg clans have come to abuse the no limit? if your doing something so outlandish as to have hundreds if not thousands of members you cant blame lag or loading speed on the game but player error xD 

[pdxdubin]

Well as the leader of the War Song Clan this is what I have to say

 

Personally I feel the game needs some for of clan limit, the issue is the only real benefit is that of the labs the creation of mastery rank 7 weapons or the ability to be taken to any mission you need or want doing with allot of leech's. And I feel this is an issue because it promotes inactive members and bloating of mega clans and squandering of small clan's. How is a new clan with no labs to even build a single lab when they cannot recruit new members? When almost all members are part of mega clans that have every room built that has been added to date? They do not wish to put their own resources let allot allot or a hefty chunk towards such dojo advancements. Now that being said I also feel breaking clans up would also be bad unless each section had its own dojo, this way players would have less incentive to ONLY join mega clans for immediate benefits.

 

its like this, who would want or even wish to join or found their own clan when room requirements are so high to build? when they can just join broframe and reap all benefits immediately?

 

it becomes a issue of

 

A:Hey Im the head of the War Song clan had a good game just now would you be interest in joining?

 

B:Well do you have a complete dojo? (Or insert Im already in a mega clan)

 

A:not yet but were working on it!

 

B:nope

 

Also that being said their is no downside to being in broframe except that the name of their clan breaks immersion and does not fit at all in the world.

while small clans come with countless hours of grinding and hard work

 

Its a monopoly at this point

 

 

It's not a monopoly.

 

Understand that

 

I DONT CARE ABOUT THE DOJO

 

at all.

 

We were big before dojos even came.

 

Warbroz was big before dojos even arrived. 

Gryphus tech was a big clan before the dojos.

 

 

 

What does that say about large clans?

 

 

We are large for a reason.

 

Because we have great people in our clan, great communities.

 

And people want to join for that.

 

 

Too feel united.

Feel like your a part of a group,

 

A family.

 

 

That is not a monopoly.

 

That is dedication and care for your clan.

 

 

Because of broframe.

 

Everyone thinks large clans are just exploits.

 

No.

 

were not.

We all started out with 1 person at a time.

 

The ones that continue to invite members.

 

Do so because of the quality of whats inside.

 

 

I am confident to say that even if we did not have a dojo.

 

90% of our clan would still be here.

 

Just because of the connections they made.

 

 

I am only worried about the friends in my clan getting split up.

 

And the community falling down into an inactive abyss. 

 

 

Because right now it feels like your in a home.

 

With people you can rely on.

And bond with.

And compete with.

 

 

And I have spent 100's of hours to help make this happen.

 

Hopefully that won't all be for naught.  

[-CdG-Revo]

Personally, I have nothing against big clans, they have everything settled. Its like mangomonkey says its one big community matchmakinglayers helping players. I see the confusion ahead and chaos. Many will be lost in the game. I have my own clan of 20 where we all of each other. Can't say I didn't lost a lot of my members trust to big clans.

Respect to you actually getting thousands of members. I see this whole clan problem of you as:the DE just wants to solve the huge problem. there are many huge problems. I think de is doing this to silent and satisfy the masses.

Without realising the mayhem caused.

Basicly: with more complaints than all the clans combined, who will the DE have to help? The masses of coarse. Unfortunately you. A FEW thousand will have to suffer for a while.

[pdxdubin]

you dont realize that larg clans have come to abuse the no limit? if your doing something so outlandish as to have hundreds if not thousands of members you cant blame lag or loading speed on the game but player error xD 

 

Abuse how?

 

Its not about the dojo.

 

Its not about the event.

 

Its about making friends and not being so lonely while you play.

 

 

Sitting in an active chat that is actually regulated.

 

People like that.

 

 

And that's why they join.

 

And that's why they stay.

 

 

I am offended when people associate asuro, and gryphus tech and all these other clans with the idea of being exploiters.

 

We all worked hard.

 

Nothing was handed out for free.

[pdxdubin]

Personally, I have nothing against big clans, they have everything settled. Its like mangomonkey says its one big community matchmakinglayers helping players. I see the confusion ahead and chaos. Many will be lost in the game. I have my own clan of 20 where we all of each other. Can't say I didn't lost a lot of my members trust to big clans.

Respect to you actually getting thousands of members. I see this whole clan problem of you as:the DE just wants to solve the huge problem. there are many huge problems. I think de is doing this to silent and satisfy the masses.

Without realising the mayhem caused.

Basicly: with more complaints than all the clans combined, who will the DE have to help? The masses of coarse. Unfortunately you. A FEW thousand will have to suffer for a while.

 

 

That's why I want to prevent them from doing this.

 

Nothing good can come from it.

 

Large clans can still get larger.

 

Small clans will get no attention.

 

Meanwhile these large clans are getting split up and their communities will fall because of it.

 

 

What happens when you log in.

Expect to see someone from the clan online.

talking like usual.

 

But he is already in a clan with 1000 people.

Talking in a separate clan chat.

 

this is going to divide the community.

 

Not unite it. 

[blackgu4rd]

Smaller clans will be viable with update 9. 

 

I admit that AsurO having a full dojo made it more appealing to join as a new player, but the blueprints weren't a concern at that point. I barely had enough credits to fuse mods, let alone build rank 7 weapons. I wanted a place where I could just hop on and do an alert or a void run, somewhere that wasn't the regional chat. I hadn't even heard of broframe but I wouldn't have joined it anyway since it breaks whatever sense of immersion this game has. Before that, I mostly did solo runs.

 

Sure, it's lenient towards inactivity but that's what I was looking for. I can't play Warframe in all my spare time. And above that, clans include members from all regions, which means that I can just jump in and find a friendly group of people at any time of the day I feel like playing. And, again, I wanted to avoid the regional chat. 

 

This "splitting" will hurt the people that joined large clans for the no-strings-attached camaraderie those clans offered.

Edited July 9, 2013 by blackgu4rd

[RagDollRat]

Abuse how?

 

Its not about the dojo.

 

Its not about the event.

 

Its about making friends and not being so lonely while you play.

 

 

Sitting in an active chat that is actually regulated.

 

People like that.

 

 

And that's why they join.

 

And that's why they stay.

 

 

I am offended when people associate asuro, and gryphus tech and all these other clans with the idea of being exploiters.

 

We all worked hard.

 

Nothing was handed out for free.

I was refering to lag in the quoted statement of Contact load speed due to mass amounts of players

 

the lag wouldnt exist if the clan didnt abuse the no limit

 

and when it becomes an issue like lag? its abuse

 

not a programming error like that user stated

 

also I hate double space this isnt middle school, and I hate you, because of double space that is the only reason

 

also I have n problem with the comunity of such clans but all have admitted to mass leachers and non active members, that is an issue. and you may not be their only for the dojo but many are and thats a problem that has a choke hold on new or smaller clans

[-CdG-Revo]

So basicly benefits for smaller clan? (No offense)

Sit back and watch huge clans get destroyed

Altough... It will actually help small clans with recruits.

So just sit back and wait for update nine, the Change is coming. Accept and suffer

Edited July 9, 2013 by RevoThornax

[RagDollRat]

That's why I want to prevent them from doing this.

 

Nothing good can come from it.

 

Large clans can still get larger.

 

Small clans will get no attention.

 

Meanwhile these large clans are getting split up and their communities will fall because of it.

 

 

What happens when you log in.

Expect to see someone from the clan online.

talking like usual.

 

But he is already in a clan with 1000 people.

Talking in a separate clan chat.

 

this is going to divide the community.

 

Not unite it. 

why have seperate clans then? lets just all be Clan Broframe and have 1 dojo that all players join upon logging in? that will resolve everything not like their is region chat, or recruiting chat, or squad chat, or whispering or any other form of chat at all or even forums for that matter

[pdxdubin]

So basicly benefits for smaller clan? (No offense)

Sit back and watch huge clans get destroyed and will help with nothing for you clan!

Altough... If huge clans fall apart you might see who is the true members.....

 

 

The thing is.

 

I want small clans to get benefits.

 

because I firmly believe the people in asuro are so attached and involved with the community that most of them will most likley stay.

 

Our members, our personalities.

 

You cant buy that.

You cant zerg rush it in a week.

 

You have to work towards it and earn it.

 

Because its something you can visually see.

And feel as soon as you enter the clan. 

 

 

But I want small clans to have a chance.

 

Because big clans don't get any credit.

 

We built a website we do events competitions.

We are a community within a community.

 

Not just a clan.

And I really want our community to stay the same.

 

But this update seems to want to literally destroy that..

 

Hopefully im wrong. 

[pdxdubin]

I was refering to lag in the quoted statement of Contact load speed due to mass amounts of players

 

the lag wouldnt exist if the clan didnt abuse the no limit

 

and when it becomes an issue like lag? its abuse

 

not a programming error like that user stated

 

also I hate double space this isnt middle school, and I hate you, because of double space that is the only reason

 

also I have n problem with the comunity of such clans but all have admitted to mass leachers and non active members, that is an issue. and you may not be their only for the dojo but many are and thats a problem that has a choke hold on new or smaller clans

 

Except.

 

The only clan that got that lag was broframe.

And they did that to themselves.

 

 

None of us hardly get as much lag as they do.

The lag was fixed.

 

So if that's the reason for cutting clans then I really am confused.

 

DE needs to change the system instead of quick fixing it, by cutting clans down so that it can continue to go on being ignored.

 

 

I have been in larger clans then asuro.

 

 

And the only lag complaint I sent personally.

 

Is that the clan list keeps jumping back up to the top?

 

Is this due to our size?

 

NO?

 

it worked fine before update 8.3

 

So I don't know what types of issues there talking about.

 

Im done 

 

I want to enjoy this game 

 

And level my new sniper :) 

Ill check in from time to time to read what everyone says.

But I feel like I said what was on my mind.

Hopefully DE considers it. 

[RagDollRat]

Last

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

will

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

say

'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pdxdubin]

Last

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

will

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

say

'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets go play the game now :P

 

I got it off my chest.

If things go to S#&$ DE can always just fix it.

 

Like with rhino

:P

 

 

We can only learn from our mistakes. 

[blackgu4rd]

I'd like to address some of the replies I've seen so far:

 

1. People joining large clans because they've already built a dojo and don't want to contribute

 

This is a thing that actually happens. Up to now there have been enough players invested in their clans' respective dojos that it doesn't matter even if people hit and run. I'm going to assume most of them stay in the clan anyway. The dojo costs will be tweaked with update 9 and small clans won't be disadvantaged when it comes to building their dojos. Similarly, with community events, rewards have already been separated into number-based tiers. 

 

2. People joining large clans because they're more likely to win community events

 

This seems irrelevant on the level of the individual. The reward for this event was a statue for the dojo. Big whoop. Nobody in AsurO made us get those kills (short disclaimer: I only got 47 or something). It was just a handful of dedicated players farming drones (the people that really cared), and the high amount of people active during the event (proportionally more kills per member than broframe).

Edited July 9, 2013 by blackgu4rd

[pdxdubin]

I'd like to address some of the replies I've seen so far:

 

1. People joining large clans because they've already built a dojo and don't want to contribute

 

This is a thing that actually happens. Up to now there have been enough players invested in their clans' respective dojos that it doesn't matter even if people hit and run. I'm going to assume most of them stay in the clan anyway. The dojo costs will be tweaked with update 9 and small clans won't be disadvantaged when it comes to building their dojos. Similarly, with community events, rewards have already been separated into number-based tiers. 

 

2. People joining large clans because they're more likely to win community events

 

This seems irrelevant on the level of the individual. The reward for this event was a statue for the dojo. Big whoop. Nobody in AsurO made us get those kills. It was just a handful of dedicated players farming drones (the people that really cared), and the high amount of people active during the event (proportionally more than broframe).

 

 

3. People only join  the clan for the dojo.

 

The next person that says this needs to join our clan and really see how wrong they are.

as well as joining any other large clans that hold that false ideology 

Edited July 9, 2013 by pdxdubin

[-CdG-Revo]

pdxdubin

I may not be as experienced as you, or wise, but open your eyes, the only reason half of your clan exists and any other huge clan is because of what blackgu4rd said. I accept the idea of your clan being a happy family.

Now please:let smaller clans enjoy this and just play the freakin' game!

[blackgu4rd]

pdxdubin

I may not be as experienced as you, or wise, but open your eyes, the only reason half of your clan exists and any other huge clan is because of what blackgu4rd said. I accept the idea of your clan being a happy family.

Now please:let smaller clans enjoy this and just play the freakin' game!

 

Don't twist the meaning of my words.I have all the blueprints, I've participated in the event, I don't care about the statue, and I'm still in the group. Not for the dojo, but for the friendly people. The smaller clans are not affected in the least by the splitting of groups with more than 1000 people. 

[pdxdubin]

pdxdubin

I may not be as experienced as you, or wise, but open your eyes, the only reason half of your clan exists and any other huge clan is because of what blackgu4rd said. I accept the idea of your clan being a happy family.

Now please:let smaller clans enjoy this and just play the freakin' game!

 

 

Alright I will step out then :)

[WordsAreEnough]

Don't twist the meaning of my words.I have all the blueprints, I've participated in the event, I don't care about the statue, and I'm still in the group. Not for the dojo, but for the friendly people. The smaller clans are not affected in the least by the splitting of groups with more than 1000 people. 

 

No one's twisting your words. You said you joined your clan for the Dojo. You may have stayed for other reason, but that's why you joined. The problem is with huge Clans out there that can rush every Dojo part the day it comes out smaller clans can't compete in recruiting. Your clan wouldn't have you without the Dojo that drew you in.

 

The proposed Clan split will help show who cares about the clan. People who actually care will want to get back into the main clan. People who were riding along for Dojo privileges will still have their Dojo and won't care. So you'll actually have the tight-knit friendly clan atmosphere you wanted enhanced. You should be thanking DE really.

 

As far as alliances. As long as there's never a mechanical benefit to them, great. Otherwise they're a terrible idea.

[pdxdubin]

No one's twisting your words. You said you joined your clan for the Dojo. You may have stayed for other reason, but that's why you joined. The problem is with huge Clans out there that can rush every Dojo part the day it comes out smaller clans can't compete in recruiting. Your clan wouldn't have you without the Dojo that drew you in.

 

The proposed Clan split will help show who cares about the clan. People who actually care will want to get back into the main clan. People who were riding along for Dojo privileges will still have their Dojo and won't care. So you'll actually have the tight-knit friendly clan atmosphere you wanted enhanced. You should be thanking DE really.

 

As far as alliances. As long as there's never a mechanical benefit to them, great. Otherwise they're a terrible idea.

 

This is wrong.

 

If the clan gets split it makes it more difficult for the 3000 active members to communicate.

 

Don't turn this into a large clan small debate.

 

cutting large clans does nothing for small clans.

 

Small clans need to be easier to build things for.

 

simple fix.