Enough With The Knockdowns

[__Kanade__]

you can easily headshot a shield unit, rollers don't have KB, just stun, but even so, they're hard to kill when your in a tight corridor and theres more than one an your trying to get a jump attack in.

[Pekku]

I think they need diminishing returns on knockdown attacks.

 

There has been occasions where several Runners snuck up behind me on a defense mission and just chain knock down while a Toxic Ancient tapdances on me. Make it so that if you were subjected to knockdown moves in quick succession, the duration is halved until you are eventually immune to it for maybe 6 seconds. After that you become susceptible to knockdowns again.

 

Another idea would be that when a Runner explodes, all the nearby ones explodes as well, preventing them from exploding one by one and stunlocking you. Their increased mortality rate could be balanced by increasing the damage the explosion does; making it more imperative to not get caught by an exploding Runner.

 

EDIT: Grammar.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Pekku

[Neuhnee]

I honestly didn't even know half the units on this guy's list had a knockdown, they're just that much of a non-issue. Having said that, I guess you could take out all the knockdowns and the good players wouldn't even notice, and rest would stop whining about them. There's pretty much no down side other than the wasted time editing the code which could have been spent fixing real issues.

[dgpainkiller]

At first I wanted to know who the retard that decided to give the runners (who btw, already has an annyoing attack, if your not carefull) now that awfull knockback, that makes you fly all over the map were. So I could lynch him/her. My Saryn, who loves to melee most enemies, had to stop, becuase sooner or later, she would just be like a bag of dead meat, if there were to many runners, knocking her around.

 

On defense missions, it's even worse. Not tyo mention, it's just so damn annoying  First 5 waves is okay, but later on, I just get so mad and punch my fist on the table everytime 5-6 runners comes and knockback you out of the level, or all around the map. It still one of the reason im rdy to give up playing.

 

Now, to get me wrong, they are not hard. They are annoying. Thats a big difference. I just can't stand stupid and annoying stuff. Leveling a melee weapon requires alot of melee. But with this new $&*&*#(%& thing, I just don't melee as much as I want to.

[Neuhnee]

At first I wanted to know who the retard that decided to give the runners (who btw, already has an annyoing attack, if your not carefull) now that awfull knockback, that makes you fly all over the map were. So I could lynch him/her. My Saryn, who loves to melee most enemies, had to stop, becuase sooner or later, she would just be like a bag of dead meat, if there were to many runners, knocking her around.

 

On defense missions, it's even worse. Not tyo mention, it's just so damn annoying  First 5 waves is okay, but later on, I just get so mad and punch my fist on the table everytime 5-6 runners comes and knockback you out of the level, or all around the map. It still one of the reason im rdy to give up playing.

 

Now, to get me wrong, they are not hard. They are annoying. Thats a big difference. I just can't stand stupid and annoying stuff. Leveling a melee weapon requires alot of melee. But with this new $&*&*#(%& thing, I just don't melee as much as I want to.

 

They're trying to figure out a way to overcome the ancient ninja secret of standing on a box. In the case of the Runners it's not intended as a knock*down' so much as a knock*off*

[Boomstick720]

Alright most of what I would have said has been said by others, but the general gist is that there are very few enemies that have "bad" stun mechanics, such as possibly the rollers, or have flawed mechanics, such as the insane range of the shield lancer's bash.

 

What I wanted to talk about was why everyone thinks the disruptors, or really any of the ancients should be nerfed.  I mean, the disruptors can be brutal at high levels but their attacks are hardly hitscan.  In fact, they are actually pretty easy to dodge if you just flip out of the way.  In all honesty, every ancient is easily countered with an ice mod on a weapon, and even without that, the only ancient that is a real threat is the toxic ancient.  

 

Come to think of it, ancients are really the only enemies that make the high level infested defense missions difficult.  I mean virtually every other enemy can be easily overpowered through some pretty powerful melee weapons up until around wave 15 or so.

 

I guess the point is that stun mechanics can be pretty bad.  You could possibly say there are no good stun mechanics.  However, knockdown mechanics are a different story, because in all honesty, they are the only possible advantage the enemy can have over you.

 

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to mention.  I'm not entirely sure where everyone is getting the "runners knock everyone down".  All they changed is that if you get staggered while airborne, you get knocked down.  Therefore, if you are around runners... don't jump at them.  Simple as that.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Boomstick720

[Eirshy]

As I've said many times in infested defense runs... B> a god-damn Poise mod.

 

 

A Note on Runners, they've been knocking me down every explosion since the patch. Dunno if it's an elevation thing, a light frame thing, or what, but they *are* knocking me down currently. It's making me not want to even attempt Xini at the current moment, as I do *way* more melee there than I should, and one runner would *definitely* get me killed in a situation where so long as I do it perfectly I can go whirlyblades even at wave 30 and come out alive.

 

A Note on Railguns, I haven't been shot by one of these in weeks, they get 100% of my fire whenever I see them because they ignore the cover that is keeping all of their buddies off of me, and I really don't like that.

 

 

 

What I'd suggest we do is add another stat, call it "Poise" or "Footing" or something.

 

Light frames have a lower stat, heavy frames have a higher stat. It's a pseudo-health that regenerates after a bit of not getting hit. Whenever an effect that can stagger or knock you down (currently) hits you, it deals poise damage as well.

 

Whenever your  poise is reduced to 0, you stagger. Whenever your poise is reduced below zero by a certain ammount (say, 30-50% of your max poise), you're knocked down instead (current chain-staggers turn into a knockdown (makes more sense), and knockdowns on Rhino and Frost could just be staggers). Upon recovering from a stagger, your poise heals to full and gets a self-stacking temporary boost (of like 20% for like 5 seconds). Upon standing back up from being knocked down, your poise will heal to full and get a self-stacking, stronger temporary boost (say, 40% for like 10 seconds).

 

Then we also add a % boost mod for Poise, and a regen speed increase and/or delay reduction for Poise as well. Maybe even a stagger animation speedup mod (or add that effect to Handspring).

 

 

This gives you a way to build your favorite frame to counter it, it allows the supposed "tank" frames to be more tanky without actually being more tanky, and would prevent chain-stun issues.

 

The reason for 5/10 seconds as the suggestion is because it shouldn't be a long durration where you're immune (or in this case, more resistant) to staggers/knockdowns- and 5-10 seconds are an eternity in-combat.

[Estred]

I honestly didn't even know half the units on this guy's list had a knockdown, they're just that much of a non-issue. Having said that, I guess you could take out all the knockdowns and the good players wouldn't even notice, and rest would stop whining about them. There's pretty much no down side other than the wasted time editing the code which could have been spent fixing real issues.

Many, yourself included seem to be missing the point. It is not that Knockdowns are bad or obtrusive to gameplay. They are stale, overused and bland. My proposition is to make gameplay different so it's not only knockdowns you have to think about.

[Tempera]

What I wanted to talk about was why everyone thinks the disruptors, or really any of the ancients should be nerfed.  I mean, the disruptors can be brutal at high levels but their attacks are hardly hitscan.  In fact, they are actually pretty easy to dodge if you just flip out of the way.  In all honesty, every ancient is easily countered with an ice mod on a weapon, and even without that, the only ancient that is a real threat is the toxic ancient.  

I have made a https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/76334-your-enemies-suck/'>thread about this. It's been buried by now, three pages back, but it's an attempt at explaining why the knockdown mechanic as it's used already sucks, and why Ancient Disruptors in particular are an awful enemy.

[Miracle21]

does Handspring mod work against knockdowns ?

[Kyria]

does Handspring mod work against knockdowns ?

 

It speeds up the recovery animation, but it does not prevent the knockdown from happening.

[Estred]

I have made a thread about this. It's been buried by now, three pages back, but it's an attempt at explaining why the knockdown mechanic as it's used already sucks, and why Ancient Disruptors in particular are an awful enemy.

I read that thread, I made this one because I was focused on a different topic. What things could be used instead of Knockdowns.