[Suggestion] Armor Ignore Mod Stats

[FunkyEntropy]

I think there's interesting design space to be delved in the area of mods that allow your weapons and direct-damage abilities to ignore a % of enemy armor.  This would give standard weapons a leg up and help make them comparable to weapons that ignore enemy armor such as Kunai and Boltor types.  Putting this on a weapon that already deal Physics Impact damage (aka Armor Ignore) do not gain any additional benefit. These are mods for late game play, such as T3 Void.

 

Based off the new nightmare rare mods, which add to two different stats. All go from 6 energy (rank 0) to 9 energy (rank 3).

 

Rifle: 

Phase Rounds (alt name:  Wavetech ammo)

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +0.1m penetration/rank

 

Shotgun:

Hyperkinetic Chamber

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +5% reload speed/rank

 

Sidearm:

Needlepoint Rounds (needs a better name)

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +5% armor pierce/rank

 

Melee:

Monomolecular Edge

Ignores 25%/rank enemy armor, +20% damage/rank

 

Frame:

Efficiency Circuits

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +12.5% energy/rank

[notionphil]

I think there's interesting design space to be delved in the area of mods that allow your weapons and direct-damage abilities to ignore a % of enemy armor.  This would give standard weapons a leg up and help make them comparable to weapons that ignore enemy armor such as Kunai and Boltor types.  Putting this on a weapon that already deal Physics Impact damage (aka Armor Ignore) do not gain any additional benefit. These are mods for late game play, such as T3 Void.

 

Based off the new nightmare rare mods, which add to two different stats. All go from 6 energy (rank 0) to 9 energy (rank 3).

 

Rifle: 

Phase Rounds (alt name:  Wavetech ammo)

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +0.1m penetration/rank

 

Shotgun:

Hyperkinetic Chamber

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +5% reload speed/rank

 

Sidearm:

Needlepoint Rounds (needs a better name)

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +5% armor pierce/rank

 

Melee:

Monomolecular Edge

Ignores 25%/rank enemy armor, +20% damage/rank

 

Frame:

Efficiency Circuits

Ignores 20%/rank enemy armor, +12.5% energy/rank

 

Cool idea but the secondary stats are way too powerful for some of those. Also it prob shouldnt get all the way to 100% maybe 60-80 depending on weap type IMO

[FunkyEntropy]

The only one that goes to 100% is melee (because all melee weapons gain the property anyway by doing charge attacks).  All the others go to 80% at max rank.

 

The secondary effects are of comparable or lesser quality to the base mod.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

This just seems stupidly overpowered, but maybe that's just me.

 

For the record, I believe enemy armor shouldn't scale.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Kyte]

Hm. Sounds kind of interesting, although the programmer in me wonders how'd you pull this off without breaking the current damage system. :V

[RealityMachina]

Hm. Sounds kind of interesting, although the programmer in me wonders how'd you pull this off without breaking the current damage system. :V

Well, if we want to keep this sort of scaling:

Since Steve referred to the current auras as basically raising the level cap, why not have these mods as weapon auras? You could make them relatively rare enough that the intended users of the system (people who want to use other weapons/warframes in the void but need some way to actually fight against the xboxhueg stats high end enemies get).

 

Of course, a more ideal version would be simply making it void enemies don't need xboxhueg stats and can instead challenge the player in a way that doesn't force players to have very specific pieces of equipment if they even want a chance of winning.

[FunkyEntropy]

This just seems stupidly overpowered, but maybe that's just me.

 

For the record, I believe enemy armor shouldn't scale.

 

The numbers I used were pulled out of thin air.  Testing for proper balance should, as always, be implemented to determine what the numbers actually should be.

 

Hm. Sounds kind of interesting, although the programmer in me wonders how'd you pull this off without breaking the current damage system. :V

 

You mean the 15 or whatever different damage types they've currently got in-game?  Yeah, I have no idea how this'd fit in with that.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

It wouldn't be hard at all to program.  Just toss in an if statement when damage is getting calculated to check for the presence of this mod.  If so, apply the effect.  Not really seeing how this would be any challenge to program at all.

[Kyte]

It wouldn't be hard at all to program.  Just toss in an if statement when damage is getting calculated to check for the presence of this mod.  If so, apply the effect.  Not really seeing how this would be any challenge to program at all.

You have no idea what's easy and what's not because you don't know how it's built.

Or how to develop software, if you can dare to make such a comment.

 

Well, if we want to keep this sort of scaling:

 

Since Steve referred to the current auras as basically raising the level cap, why not have these mods as weapon auras? You could make them relatively rare enough that the intended users of the system (people who want to use other weapons/warframes in the void but need some way to actually fight against the xboxhueg stats high end enemies get).

 

Of course, a more ideal version would be simply making it void enemies don't need xboxhueg stats and can instead challenge the player in a way that doesn't force players to have very specific pieces of equipment if they even want a chance of winning.

Well the comment was just me nerding out on the programming side of things because I'm a nerrrrrrrrd.

 

As an idea it's actually pretty good. Many weapons lose effectiveness at high levels because of armor. On the other hand, innate AI weapons generally do less damage than normal weapons. A simple way to balance that is by only making up to, say, 75% of the max damage go through armor.

I wouldn't make'em double mods though. They're strong enough as it is.

[notionphil]

The only one that goes to 100% is melee (because all melee weapons gain the property anyway by doing charge attacks).  All the others go to 80% at max rank.

 

The secondary effects are of comparable or lesser quality to the base mod.

Yeah sorry I didn't read the detail abt the caps. Good idea. I do still think the secondary effects are OP and not needed at all. These mods will essentially be required equipment.

 

If anything, the secondary effect should be a nerf and they should work across ALL weapon types. And maybe one lesser one w no nerf.

 

So you pick your build.

 

EX:

 

Reckless Shot - 20% Ignore armor damage + 3% Accuracy decrease (4 ranks, up to 80%, - 12%)

 

Weighted Shot - 20% Ignore armor damage + 2% sprint speed decrease

 

Aimed Shot - 20% ignore armor damage + 3% Fire rate decrease

 

etc...

 

and

 

Rending Shot - 10% ignore armor damage ( 4 ranks, up to 40)

[Palamudin]

If they raise the cap, if they give us 150lvl mobs on normal maps then yes, why not.

Making this now when we are overpowered as we are? For fully developed frames that hit the cap. formed and potatoed, there is no challenge in the game, atleast none that would require more damage to be dealt, especially not after vandaltron and prime bow introduction with even more sick power output (im not even touching the new clan weaps).

 

This as a way to progress the game? Yes, they need to apply the aura to a weapon same way they did it with the frame but not now, its not needed it would make the game to easy if any meaningful aura would be offered.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Palamudin

[RealityMachina]

I wouldn't make'em double mods though. They're strong enough as it is.

Oh, I meant use the mod concepts, but as weapon auras instead of mods.

 

Making this now when we are overpowered as we are? For fully developed frames that hit the cap. formed and potatoed, there is no challenge in the game, atleast none that would require more damage to be dealt, especially not after vandaltron and prime bow introduction with even more sick power output (im not even touching the new clan weaps).

Since you clearly seemed to have missed it last time or just responded to the OP.

 

Also, in general endgame gear kinda tends to be really powerful against most non-endgame content by default buddy. That's kinda an unavoidable thing when it comes to endgame gear, since the whole point of endgame gear is that you're getting stuff that's useful against the endgame.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

You have no idea what's easy and what's not because you don't know how it's built.

Or how to develop software, if you can dare to make such a comment.

 

Well the comment was just me nerding out on the programming side of things because I'm a nerrrrrrrrd.

 

As an idea it's actually pretty good. Many weapons lose effectiveness at high levels because of armor. On the other hand, innate AI weapons generally do less damage than normal weapons. A simple way to balance that is by only making up to, say, 75% of the max damage go through armor.

I wouldn't make'em double mods though. They're strong enough as it is.

I'm a developer for an FPS and have programmed things that bypass shields and custom resistances. Also, I assumed their damage code would be written in a logical format. Provided that it is, implementing it likely wouldn't be hard. You have yet to give a reason why it would necessarily be difficult. I see no reason to assume that it would be which is what you did above.

[Palamudin]

Since you clearly seemed to have missed it last time or just responded to the OP.

 

Also, in general endgame gear kinda tends to be really powerful against most non-endgame content by default buddy. That's kinda an unavoidable thing when it comes to endgame gear, since the whole point of endgame gear is that you're getting stuff that's useful against the endgame.

Was responding to OP.

On endgame, problem is what do you think as endgame content? Running Pluto without dying or forcing a 50-60 wave in a Rhino or Loki.

If we take running Pluto with ease there are numerous frames capable with only potato to deliver, i don't even want to mention that at that point in game (Pluto, rank 2-4) you have serration for rifle, killing blow for your melee and what else do you need when you are tricked out.

If we are talking about 4-6 times formed frames with 4 time formed weapon set made of clanobtanium or full armor ignore package what are actual mobs going to do? i 1 shot ancient far over lvl 50 (if double crit up to lvl100). And that with a paris, easily acquired "rifle" and 2 formes.

What are fully tricked Prime Bow, Ogris, Vandaltron and other obviously strong weapons to shoot at in current content

nothing can worry those players simply cause they nuke the universe let alone some poor lvl 70 mob that got lost from some defense down to normal population. 

Yes i have tried it, no i don't find nightmare or standard content hard, i started with loki that has perma invincibility so i had no issues getting everything i wanted to complement my play style. I would suggest that you acquire a weapon that you use with ease and get a good result, move, shoot from unseen locations, relocate, shoot more, repeat till they are dead... that's the tactics for first 10-15 frame  ranks and regular weapons u get from start. Usually players cross to stronger weapon as soon as they compare garbage they have at the moment with some heat/heavy weapon. After that they find out about ignore dmg, armor piercing and while they are 30th lvl on 1st frame they own everything up to 30-40 lvl range.

 

Providing more fire power to early game stage will make developers rewrite the whole gameplay in order to keep the balance or frames will become max deadly at lvl 5 with a proper aura and potato running Pluto like you were born there. I would say thats excellent content for next stage cap raising but not now bro.. it would really make this game walk in the park, Tenno are superior but not gods.

Nightmare maps are for players that find content so far (including pluto) easy, you will be thankful that when you hit the cap there will be something more you can do. And with more dmg auras  you could do nightmare in lvl 5 frame them missions wouldn't be nightmare would they -.-

Edited July 24, 2013 by Palamudin