Energy System Vs Cooldown System

[gvgeri]

Well, honestly, the whole "cooldown reduction" got really complicated really fast. Now, now, I'm all for cd implementation, and if Steve says that that is a bad thing, well, there's a whole lot other bad things in this game that he defends, for some reason.

 

But let's stay in the topic at hand, shall we, and I'll try to keep it short.

 

The solution for "dead times", and the whole skill spamming is fairly easy: activate cooldown function, but keep the timers short. About 10 or 15 seconds would be more than enough for those room cleaners. They would still be relevant, the timer is too short to make you want to wait it out, and honestly, you will be able to spam it, just not as hard, or as boring.

 

In high tension moments, you WOULD have to use your "useless" skills out of sheer necessity.

 

Think of a Saryn, just blasted her ult on a group, but there's a whole lot of infected coming in the other way, no time for the spores to do their toll? Give them a molt, and use contagion to blast them and save your bullets.

 

How it is now:

 

Use your ult on that group of enemies, them turn around, and do it again. And if you don't, don't worry, ember will just come around with the world on fire.

[Frostmire]

Cooldown and Energy cost ... why not both ? The current enerygy system just fails to prevent skill spaming 

Edited July 27, 2013 by Frostmire

[DeathByTeaCup]

Just something I'd like to mention about the cooldowns you suggested:

Having it on an active tile only, brings the same problem as waiting, just leave 1 enemy alive and let him keep damaging you, making sure it's a fairly weak enemy, it's still gonna kill the pace of the game. 

 

Secondly the problem with the having to take damage to get skills is, say you use all your skills to clear out a room of very strong enemies, then you run into a room with the same amount of enemies at the same strength, then what? You'd be completely annihilated unless you stand at the door of the room taking pot-shots at the enemies, which will also kill the pace.

As for noticing enemies and not drops, it still wouldn't make a difference because you haven't factored in ammo, mods and resource drops, energy orbs is just another thing to look for.

 

Another thing to add about being hit to recharge - this makes high level defense completely impossible, because enemies eventually get to the stage they can and will one shot you, regardless of your shield and armor. 

 

Lastly (And this is just my own opinion) having skills on cooldown wouldn't make me use the more useless skills more, I don't use them, not because I don't have the energy, I very rarely run out of energy, I don't use them because they are useless, and having them on cooldown would honestly just make me take them out of my Frame and Forma the slots. The only reason I keep them in is because they look cool and I sometimes use them for the visual when there's an abundance of energy orbs.

 

 

 

I personally like the current system, yes it's easy to exploit but it makes the game very fast paced and fun, and it means you have to be extra careful on the squishy frames and you have to manage your energy on the missions that have little energy drops, makes the game more interesting!

u make it sound like u cant do anything but use powers.. so if thats the case i like this system. u say u kill 1 room with powers then if u go in the next with out "said skill" then u insta die.. thats 1 not true and 2 if it was true then this system would fix it and then they could adress the difficulty of enemies!..

[gvgeri]

Cooldown and Energy cost ... why not both ? The current enerygy system just fails to prevent skill spaming 

 

I considered that, but it would still have you saving energy so you can use your ult, instead of those other "useless skills". An answer would be individual energy bars, but then again, too complicated for my tastes.

[Ardha]

You havent seen it because Steve said that its not gonna happen after we had these threads every few days. People stopped making threads after the statement of him.....

And has he ever stated reasons for this?

I'm not saying this in a harsh way. Like I said before, just the fact that skill balancing has become so much of an issue (Mag's feedback post 8.3 is a good example) may be reason enough to make some changes into the energy system.

Because it's obviously faster and smarter to adjust a global system (with less tweaks and larger results) rather than spending entire weeks balancing every single skill from every single frame.

 

Well, honestly, the whole "cooldown reduction" got really complicated really fast. Now, now, I'm all for cd implementation, and if Steve says that that is a bad thing, well, there's a whole lot other bad things in this game that he defends, for some reason.

 

But let's stay in the topic at hand, shall we, and I'll try to keep it short.

 

The solution for "dead times", and the whole skill spamming is fairly easy: activate cooldown function, but keep the timers short. About 10 or 15 seconds would be more than enough for those room cleaners. They would still be relevant, the timer is too short to make you want to wait it out, and honestly, you will be able to spam it, just not as hard, or as boring.

 

In high tension moments, you WOULD have to use your "useless" skills out of sheer necessity.

 

Think of a Saryn, just blasted her ult on a group, but there's a whole lot of infected coming in the other way, no time for the spores to do their toll? Give them a molt, and use contagion to blast them and save your bullets.

 

How it is now:

 

Use your ult on that group of enemies, them turn around, and do it again. And if you don't, don't worry, ember will just come around with the world on fire.

Agreed. Although I was thinking about longer cooldowns for ultimates. But that could be thrown into separate cooldowns (regular skills and ultimates). Having short cooldowns at least on regular skills would make waiting redundant and not worth it.

The cooldowns for ultimates can then be tweaked in relation to damage, kills, whatever, just to avoid said issue.

 

Cooldown and Energy cost ... why not both ? The current enerygy system just fails to prevent skill spaming 

This would at least solve the problem of skill comparisons (I mean, if ultimates work on a separate mechanism)

 

And as I said, I don't use those powers because there is no point, but you said it would encourage more people to use them, but I disagree, and from my own personal experience and from friends I know that play, if it was moved to cooldown we wouldn't even have those equipped because we would have to make room for other mods, we leave them in because we can use our other, better skills, to compensate for what we lack in shield, life and such, moving it to cooldown wouldn't encourage people to use the useless skills.

I still don't get how cooldowns could be worse/useless on this regard, since basically right now you use a skill in spite of others (energy is shared) while cooldowns allow to use them all without negative effects (and still keeping balance and preventing spam).

On other regards, we're cool, opinions.

[whitejackale]

And has he ever stated reasons for this?

I'm not saying this in a harsh way. Like I said before, just the fact that skill balancing has become so much of an issue (Mag's feedback post 8.3 is a good example) may be reason enough to make some changes into the energy system.

Because it's obviously faster and smarter to adjust a global system (with less tweaks and larger results) rather than spending entire weeks balancing every single skill from every single frame.

 

I bet it would take one day to balance every skill with individual cooldowns for each based on dps goals per skill.

The only problem would be assigning values to utility skills, but it is not that big of a deal.

[Ardha]

Just a little bump to share this: 3 failed infested defense missions today, just because no energy orbs dropped for two or even three consecutive waves (close to none, at least).

Yes, this RNG based system is clearly the best solution.