What If Bullet Attractor Made All Bullets Absorbed Crit?

[LasersGoPewPew]

^title.

 

since it theoretically destroys dps by preventing you from hitting weak spots while its' active on the target, what if it made all the bullets crit or possibly do more damage?

[Feldgrep]

Imagine radial javelin...

[LasersGoPewPew]

Imagine radial javelin...

keyword...... BULLETS, not javelins or skill projectiles/throwing weapons.

[Arelm]

Well..what about Banshee's Sonar + Bullet Attractor?

[BigSchmexy]

with mods like point strike and vital sense maxed out it would be too OP but a slight damage increase would be reasonable

[TemetNosce]

Over complicates the issue, fix it so it attracts to weak points. That said, it would make it possibly worth slotting I suppose. Being honest, I'd have to actually use it to decide.

[Eirshy]

Couple bits...

 

 

One, 560% (the highest crit damage in the game, Dread with Hammer and Vital) of 10% is still only 56%. Ancients hit 900 armor (10% allowed) before level 50 iirc.

 

Two, still denies a Banshee's Sonar, which is up to 650% bonus damage that stacks multiplicatively with crit (meaning a sonar dread crit shooting against 900 armor would deal 364%).

 

Three, yes, you (theoretically) CAN still hit these points even with atractor is up... The problem is you basically have to do spherical geometry to figure out where you have to hit the bubble to arc the bullet into the spot (as it (should) pull all rounds directly towards the middle of the bubble.

 

 

Four one idea for a fix I had was make it do what Volt's shield does (convert all shots that pass through it into Hitscan), and then only adjust the trajectory of shots that wouldn't already score a hit. This way you can still use it to buff the Supra's dps on a boss, without telling the Banshee with the Lanka and correctly built Sonar to go F*** herself and her potentially-over-100k single-shot damage.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Hobo42]

Would become way too strong. Every single one of my Gorgan's bullets are now crits or even mini crits AND I don't have to aim nearly as much? I don't see it happening.

[Lazershark]

what if all of my bullets did infinite damage and all my abilities allowed me to insta-win

[Hobo42]

what if all of my bullets did infinite damage and all my abilities allowed me to insta-win

[Zap15]

what if all of my bullets did infinite damage and all my abilities allowed me to insta-win

 

._.

[Eirshy]

Would become way too strong. Every single one of my Gorgan's bullets are now crits or even mini crits AND I don't have to aim nearly as much? I don't see it happening.

 

Oh boy your gorgon now deals under 15% damage instead of under 10% damage.

 

Oooooo you're moving up in the world so fast!

 

Seriously :/ The problem trying to be addressed is the fact that unless everyone in your party is using a Gorgon or Supra, Bullet Attractor lowers DPS.

 

Regardless it still sucks and makes your damage suck too, even with autocrit. Even the crittiest weapon in the game will deal only 56% damage when shooting against 900 armor, which Infested Ancients hit in their sleep.

 

what if all of my bullets did infinite damage and all my abilities allowed me to insta-win

 

 

what if all of my bullets did infinite damage and all my abilities allowed me to insta-win

 

 

[Zap15]

Bullet Attractor can also be used to prevent the affected target from shooting at you and your teammates, so having it also make bullets cause critical damage seems too much.

[Hobo42]

Oh boy your gorgon now deals under 15% damage instead of under 10% damage.

 

Oooooo you're moving up in the world so fast!

 

Seriously :/ The problem trying to be addressed is the fact that unless everyone in your party is using a Gorgon or Supra, Bullet Attractor lowers DPS.

 

Regardless it still sucks and makes your damage suck too, even with autocrit. Even the crittiest weapon in the game will deal only 56% damage when shooting against 900 armor, which Infested Ancients hit in their sleep.

 

Bullet Attractor POTENTIALLY lowers DPS because I'm not aiming at weak points now, but don't make it sound like it reduces my damage output. My damage output is the same.

 

It's meant to make hitting a target easier even when they are behind cover and even soak up enemy bullets AND prevent bosses from shooting me. Not to mention if you kill the target before it ends it now does radial damage too.

 

If you want to focus on hitting weak points, go find a Banshee and use Sonar.

[Kobalt]

My Bullet Attractor fix from a thread I made, more importantly some of it's problems...A lot of the people posting I doubt have enough experience with it to understand exactly how much the skill gimps damage is it is right now.

 

Bullet Attractor

Anyone who has seen me talk about it on the forums will know that I am a huge advocate for the betterment of this skill. It is one of the most unique and has some of the greatest potential. It is however a very flawed beast in a great many ways...

Problems:

- The skill does a very good job of reducing the DPS of everything that fires into it by dragging bullets center mass.

- In a lot of cases, the bubble is too large [upper 30% or more of the bubble clips with a roof] to force a headshot via trajectory.

- Bullets ALWAYS drag from the edge of the bubble to the target...

- Body Blocking/Terrain, the size of the bubble makes it more than likely that your/their bullets will hit something else before them.

- Your allies inside the bubble will block your shots making the target unkillable, this will also happen if you are standing inside the bubble as you will shoot yourself in the back [allies seem to have their collision turned off for their own weapons].

- If you are inside the bubble while being between the edge and an enemy, their bullets will hit you in the back as well preventing any damage they would cause themselves.

- In cases where an enemy is obstructed it becomes and are bullet deny for you and your allies!

These cause serious problems and have a lot of griefing potential. More than anything they take away from the fun of the skill and make it not worth casting. All of this is an aside to the mess that is the design of the skill, people are confused on it's use. No one can decide if it is a debuff, damage enhancer or a defensive bullet blanket. Tacking the explosion on to the end makes this worst! It doesn't feel like it fits to me functionally or thematically. It took me some time, but I think I came up with a solution.

Fixes:

- Bullet Attractor makes all projectiles drag to the target's head.

- Bullet Attractor magnetizes all projectiles entering the bubble, like a railgun, giving them perfect puncture!

This fix would remove 95% of the bad cases listed before! More importantly it makes it a good skill to cast in every situation [bullets will hit all targets to the center target making it usable vs. infested]. This why it can also easily be used to line up shots what will kill multiple targets in the bubble and no DPS is bad DPS. At the very least what you target with it will die. It becomes a good cast at 75 energy. Also if you decided to maintain the explosion at the end theme it better! As suggested in the mag feedback thread, make it throw the bullets it absorbs back out from the center as it makes more sense thematically.

At 75 energy, BA needs to be able to solve a problem that Crush cannot or the choice would be to simply never use BA. For anyone who says that the skill does enough by stopping enemy fire, think again. A lot of other skills do the same thing cheaper, better and without decreasing DPS. Increased damage or an auto headshot is not too much to ask for...Though I think there would have to be a stipulation for bosses to drag to center mass, in return for neutralizing some of their output [Headshot Radial Javelin OP, but is the combo ever worth using on anything that is not a boss?].

Edit: Keep in mind that as it stands not it fails from both an offensive and defensive perspective. Not to mention that I gravely left out that the skill is very much contingent on the enemy's life span in any case that is not a boss.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kobalt

[Ferriwind]

keyword...... BULLETS, not javelins or skill projectiles/throwing weapons.

So it's ok for bullets to crit and not kunais?

 

And you seem to be forgetting that enemies shoot themselves/their ally when under Bullet Attractor.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Stygi

[Eirshy]

Bullet Attractor POTENTIALLY lowers DPS because I'm not aiming at weak points now, but don't make it sound like it reduces my damage output. My damage output is the same.

 

It's meant to make hitting a target easier even when they are behind cover and even soak up enemy bullets AND prevent bosses from shooting me. Not to mention if you kill the target before it ends it now does radial damage too.

 

If you want to focus on hitting weak points, go find a Banshee and use Sonar.

 

>Implying I'm not the Banshee main that wishes there was a way to turn Friendly Fire on every time I see a Mag use Bullet Attractor....

 

The problem with bullet attractor is more in parties where it completely and utterly invalidates another frame (Banshee) and your ally's actual ability to be accurate, not in solo. Solo you can give it one of the two guns it's actually good for (supra, gorgon) and have that make up 100% of your party's damage output (because you are your party).

 

Also, just a fun fact, Sonar Splotches aren't real weakpoints, but rather pseudo-weakpoints. They still have armor applied, they just also take 500-650% damage.

 

 

Oh and if you aren't shooting weakpoints, you yourself are lowering your dps. Except on Grineer, their armor applies to their entire body rather than everything but their weakpoint. I wasn't kidding when I said the crit change would add a whole 5% of your raw dps to the mix if you're shooting against 900 armor.

 

 

My Bullet Attractor fix from a thread I made, more importantly some of it's problems...A lot of the people posting I doubt have enough experience with it to understand exactly how much the skill gimps damage is it is right now.

 

At 75 energy, BA needs to be able to solve a problem that Crush cannot or the choice would be to simply never use BA. For anyone who says that the skill does enough by stopping enemy fire, think again. A lot of other skills do the same thing cheaper, better and without decreasing DPS. Increased damage or an auto headshot is not too much to ask for...Though I think there would have to be a stipulation for bosses to drag to center mass, in return for neutralizing some of their output [Headshot Radial Javelin OP, but is the combo ever worth using on anything that is not a boss?].

Edit: Keep in mind that as it stands not it fails from both an offensive and defensive perspective. Not to mention that I gravely left out that the skill is very much contingent on the enemy's life span in any case that is not a boss.

 

Would still invalidate Sonar... what it needs to do is only adjust the flight of shots that would have missed to begin with :/

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Hobo42]

>Implying I'm not the Banshee main that wishes there was a way to turn Friendly Fire on every time I see a Mag use Bullet Attractor....

 

Shooting your teammates just because they used their ability that you don't personally like, oh wow, what a great team player, what a member of the community I wish I was like.

 

You're mad and I have no reason to keep talking to you. EDIT: (Replied to you again anyways)

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hobo42

[Eirshy]

Shooting your teammates just because they used their ability that you don't personally like, oh wow, what a great team player, what a member of the community I wish I was like.

 

You're mad and I have no reason to keep talking to you.

 

Try their ability that completely invalidates my ability. It's not that I don't like it (if it worked better (ie: only worked on shots that would have missed), it'd be great), it's that it literally makes what I'm doing in a boss fight pointless, as Sonar becomes useless if the target has Attractor on them.

 

It's as bad as a Vauban spamming vortex and bounce on you, or a Loki who keeps switch-teleporting you.

 

My beliefs demand people like that be drawn and quarter'd, but I'll settle for making me have to shoot them instead.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Hobo42]

Try their ability that completely invalidates my ability. It's not that I don't like it (if it worked better (ie: only worked on shots that would have missed), it'd be great), it's that it literally makes what I'm doing in a boss fight pointless.

 

It's as bad as or worse than a Vauban spamming vortex and bounce on you, or a Loki who keeps switch-teleporting you.

 

My beliefs demand people like that be drawn and quarter'd, but I'll settle for making me have to shoot them instead.

 

 

I'll go against what I said about not continuing to talk to you just to mention that they plan to implement a vote kick system for griefers. Maybe then you'll find some kind of peace.

 

I wish you made the fact that Bullet Attractor pretty much negates your Sonar ability a bit clearer and sooner, I would have and still can agree with you there, at least on that point. Otherwise, no, I still disagree with you on Bullet Attractor's usefulness and your mentality on how to deal with players who you disagree with.

[Zap15]

For anyone who says that the skill does enough by stopping enemy fire, think again. A lot of other skills do the same thing cheaper, better and without decreasing DPS.

 

Can you let me know what other warframe abilities can do that? If there are a lot as you said, I'd like to try those warframes out. I'd like to play as support sometimes. Other than Excalibur's Radial Blind and maybe Frost's Snow Globe in a way, I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now.

[Eirshy]

I'll go against what I said about not continuing to talk to you just to mention that they plan to implement a vote kick system for griefers. Maybe then you'll find some kind of peace.

 

I wish you made the fact that Bullet Attractor pretty much negates your Sonar ability a bit clearer and sooner, I would have and still can agree with you there, at least on that point. Otherwise, no, I still disagree with you on Bullet Attractor's usefulness and your mentality on how to deal with players who you disagree with.

 

Good, I'll settle for kicking their &#! if they keep doing it after I ask them to stop.

 

Also, bro, it was in my first post on this topic, on this very page.

 

Two, still denies a Banshee's Sonar, which is up to 650% bonus damage that stacks multiplicatively with crit (meaning a sonar dread crit shooting against 900 armor would deal 364%).

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Kobalt]

Can you let me know what other warframe abilities can do that? If there are a lot as you said, I'd like to try those warframes out. I'd like to play as support sometimes. Other than Excalibur's Radial Blind and maybe Frost's Snow Globe in a way, I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now.

The major offenders are Radial Blind, Snow Globe, Chaos and Bastille. This is due to them costing less or equal to while performing far better. The only one that can decrease your DPS is Snow Globe and it is a rare thing. Snow Globe and Chaos Last longer. Chaos will cause damage. Nyx and Vauban have innate gain from power duration. Snow Globe and Radial Blind cost 25 damage less to cast.

Those aside, you have to way cost to gain...Then you have Ubers to think about. Any that apply CC are usually far better to cast while providing much more for the extra 25 energy. This includes Crush, which pretty much 90% of the time is a better cast than BA to CC [stop enemies from firing]. Radial Disarm, Rhino Stomp and Vortex are great examples of this as well.

It would be a whole lot more arguable if BA didn't hamper damage so hard. All of those abilities have some true application vs, infested units. All those abilities have better control as well. They happen where you cast them, BA follows a target who can/will run and as a defensive ability dies when/if the target does. If the target moves behind cover [especially in cramped environment], it doesn't just block they's fire...It blocks your and your allies as well. A shot aimed to kill a non-target in the bubble is also very hard to hit without trajectory correction. It can in a lot of cases protect all of the enemies in the bubble. In my earnest opinion you'd be better off casting 3 pulls for the CC at the same cost. The only situation that changes this is bosses and all of the adjustments that were made were to make it less situational.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kobalt

[Kobalt]

Would still invalidate Sonar... what it needs to do is only adjust the flight of shots that would have missed to begin with :/

What if Sonar cast after BA would generate sonar points at the head [this makes me rock hard]? Or BA would drag bullets to the sonar Point if one was there? They generally do better than a plain headshot don't they? I doubt there is a solution that works of the Banshee case aside from playing with players who know better!

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kobalt

[Ferriwind]

-snip-

Bullet Attractor also focuses enemy fire into the target so it scales as well all the other powers you mentioned and is much better than Radial Blind. It focuses one target while Chaos affects a large group of enemies but Bullet Attractor is persistent as long as the target is alive and the duration doesn't end. It is most effective in boss fights with a large amount of enemies or when the boss him/herself does an extreme amount of projectile damage...

 

The real problem? I don't think there is one with Bullet Attractor except for when there is bad communication and teamwork.