What If Bullet Attractor Made All Bullets Absorbed Crit?

[Eirshy]

Can you let me know what other warframe abilities can do that? If there are a lot as you said, I'd like to try those warframes out. I'd like to play as support sometimes. Other than Excalibur's Radial Blind and maybe Frost's Snow Globe in a way, I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now.

 

You could do that, or you can kill them before anybody has the chance to care via sonar. I can solo-kill Kril in the span of one freeze with a Snidal, Lanka, or Despair. And just because it's a boss fight doesn't mean cover stops existing :/

 

 

And really, if not for the fact that BA punishes people who are accurate, use accurate weapons, or are using Banshee, I'd totally be OK with this as a support ability.

 

But it currently gives me the finger.

 

 

What if Sonar cast after BA would generate sonar points at the head [this makes me rock hard]? Or BA would drag bullets to the sonar Point if one was there? They generally do better than a plain headshot don't they? I doubt there is a solution that works of the Banshee case aside from playing with players who know better!

 

Sonar always picking head defeats the purpose of sonar (trickshot sniper)...

 

Having it drag them into sonar makes it conditionally better. Sonar doesn't remove armor, but it does amp damage. Shooting against 900 armor, it's 65% damage on sonar vs 200% damage on head for non-armor-bypassing, but 650% vs 200% with armor bypassing.

 

And uhm...

 

Four one idea for a fix I had was make it do what Volt's shield does (convert all shots that pass through it into Hitscan), and then only adjust the trajectory of shots that wouldn't already score a hit. This way you can still use it to buff the Supra's dps on a boss, without telling the Banshee with the Lanka and correctly built Sonar to go F*** herself and her potentially-over-100k single-shot damage.

 

Starting to feel like I'm posting for my health rather than to contribute anything... second self quote this page, from the same post ._.

 

 

Bullet Attractor also focuses enemy fire into the target so it scales as well all the other powers you mentioned and is much better than Radial Blind. It focuses one target while Chaos affects a large group of enemies but Bullet Attractor is persistent as long as the target is alive and the duration doesn't end. It is most effective in boss fights with a large amount of enemies or when the boss him/herself does an extreme amount of projectile damage...

 

The real problem? I don't think there is one with Bullet Attractor except for when there is bad communication and teamwork.

 

Yeah, no problem except it makes it damn near impossible to hit the weakpoint or sonar blotch, meaning if your party has even one Latron, Latron Prime, Lex, Snipetron, Snidal, Vulkar, Lanka, Dread, Paris, Paris Prime, Burston, Seer, or Dera, you've unconditionally lowered your party's DPS, and if your party had anybody who knows how to aim their gun (minus gorgon and supra users), you've lowered your party's DPS.

 

It's not "bad communication" or "bad teamwork". It's literally the skill makes it impossible for accurate weapons to actually use their advantage (accuracy) over inaccurate weapons. It's a blanket nerf and middle finger to at least half the weapons someone might bring.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Kobalt]

Bullet Attractor also focuses enemy fire into the target so it scales as well all the other powers you mentioned and is much better than Radial Blind. It focuses one target while Chaos affects a large group of enemies but Bullet Attractor is persistent as long as the target is alive and the duration doesn't end. It is most effective in boss fights with a large amount of enemies or when the boss him/herself does an extreme amount of projectile damage...

 

The real problem? I don't think there is one with Bullet Attractor except for when there is bad communication and teamwork.

It focus headshots that you are/can be making away from the head. The only way to land a headshot with it on is to aim for the crown of the bubble, which due to it's size can be obstructed by the ceiling making this impossible. It also directs your teams fire into any obstacle between you and the target, should the target take cover this makes it unkillable. In the enemies rushes you and you are in the bubble, your bullets are teleported behind you and move to the target. The way this works the bullets will most alwys clip you destroying themselves and making the target unkillable for you. It does not work as a function of aiming, because it diminishes your aim for 75 energy.

The question I was responding to was a question about what abilities effectively prevent/stop bullet damage. Radial Blind costs 25% less energy, has a larger range, makes enemies unaware of you/your party, lasts 3 seconds less and works on everything [this includes stalker, bosses and infested]! All of this without directing shots away from vital points you could easily connect on.

It does not focus all enemy fire, as the bubble is mobile and enemies move [blocking aside]. Enemies run out of BA, they don't out of Chaos. Nyx's Chaos is a controlled situation. It will last on all of the enemies it effects until duration or death, not just one. It lasts longer [10 secondsmore at the base on a frame that wants to use continuity], is far larger and generally sees better damage not including that enemies are capable of landing headshots on each other. It outright, except vs. a boss, does everything BA does better. Lets not leave out working against infested again. All of this without directing shots away from vital points you could easily connect on.

I have over 600 hours of play with Mag encompassing about 40% of that. The only thing BA has ever been good for was turning off boss/heavy damage. It is a horrible skill with which to do that [chaining mind control 3 times for the stun is better]. The damage enemies deal to each other or themselves is negligible at best. The reason for this being that they need far less damage to kill us than we need to kill them, this mixed with the games defensive scaling makes it horrible. This is compounded with the fact that it will always direct bullets to the most armored spots on a target unless enemies randomly shoot up.

It hurts team play more than it helps it most of the time. 75 energy fore a situational boss disable is too much to pay. Not all of them fight with projectiles and a good chuck of the projectiles aren't actually redirected like Phorid's poison shards or Raptor's missiles.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kobalt

[Zap15]

The major offenders are Radial Blind, Snow Globe, Chaos and Bastille. This is due to them costing less or equal to while performing far better. The only one that can decrease your DPS is Snow Globe and it is a rare thing. Snow Globe and Chaos Last longer. Chaos will cause damage. Nyx and Vauban have innate gain from power duration. Snow Globe and Radial Blind cost 25 damage less to cast.

Those aside, you have to way cost to gain...Then you have Ubers to think about. Any that apply CC are usually far better to cast while providing much more for the extra 25 energy. This includes Crush, which pretty much 90% of the time is a better cast than BA to CC [stop enemies from firing]. Radial Disarm, Rhino Stomp and Vortex are great examples of this as well.

It would be a whole lot more arguable if BA didn't hamper damage so hard. All of those abilities have some true application vs, infested units. All those abilities have better control as well. They happen where you cast them, BA follows a target who can/will run and as a defensive ability dies when/if the target does. If the target moves behind cover [especially in cramped environment], it doesn't just block they's fire...It blocks your and your allies as well. A shot aimed to kill a non-target in the bubble is also very hard to hit without trajectory correction. It can in a lot of cases protect all of the enemies in the bubble. In my earnest opinion you'd be better off casting 3 pulls for the CC at the same cost. The only situation that changes this is bosses and all of the adjustments that were made were to make it less situational.

 

Oh, yeah. I forgot about Chaos and Bastille. If they also work on bosses, they may be a bit overpowered, especially with the large energy pool Nyx and Vauban have.

I was also thinking about its use on bosses, as I agree that Bullet Attractor is not a crowd control ability, even with the new explosive damage when the target dies. And yeah, I can see how those ultimates are more effective, and since they are ultimates, I wouldn't expect less from them.

 

You also pointed out how it can redirect your fire to hit non-target objects like cover. Yeah, I see that happen too when I use it, but I usually chase after him when they move around, so I have little issue with that. Maybe if bullets gained some puncture with Bullet Attractor, and that might help some of that issue. Then again, I've been having trouble fully understanding how the puncture mechanic works, and I wish I could get an answer from the developers themselves about it.

 

So, I guess main issue of this discussion is that it decreases your damage output when Bullet Attractor is used, which is totally understandable. If the developers don't change the location of where the bullets are redirected, like to the head as you wanted, to cause more damage, then some kind of buff may need to happen. I'm just not sure if critical damage is the way to go about fixing this though. May need testing.

[Polarthief]

keyword...... BULLETS, not javelins or skill projectiles/throwing weapons.

 

Which would make a lot of weapons not benefit from this, and despite just being a small buff, it would make the already-worst-Frame-in-the-game look even worse (again, despite knowing this is a buff)

 

Just to name a few: Every clan weapon, every Warframe ability, Kunai/Hikou/Despair.

[Ferriwind]

Hmmm, well, how about this?

 

The total radius effect of bullet attractor could only affect enemy bullets.

The bullets of allies could be affected by only the smaller visible bubble where the bullets do not warp right when they are fired but instead contributes to damage when it hits the inside of the bubble.

To explain it in another way, enemy bullets will be warped to a single point or whatever happens currently stays the same. But bullets of allies don't warp and can entirely miss if they don't land within the Bullet Attractor bubble. Otherwise they will hit where allies aimed and bullets that do miss but land within the circle does damage to the target of Bullet Attractor. For example. you have a gun that has very high spread like Gorgon and you are trying to aim at Lech's head. It goes that some of the bullets will miss because his head is a small target, but those bullets will go past him and hit the Bullet Attractor circle and, through skill mechanic, contribute to body damage.

 

:D

 

edit: one obvious problem, puncture, however puncture mods do cost quite a lot :/

Edited July 29, 2013 by Stygi

[Eirshy]

Hmmm, well, how about this?

 

The total radius effect of bullet attractor could only affect enemy bullets.

The bullets of allies could be affected by only the smaller visible bubble where the bullets do not warp right when they are fired but instead contributes to damage when it hits the inside of the bubble.

To explain it in another way, enemy bullets will be warped to a single point or whatever happens currently stays the same. But bullets of allies don't warp and can entirely miss if they don't land within the Bullet Attractor bubble. Otherwise they will hit where allies aimed and bullets that do miss but land within the circle does damage to the target of Bullet Attractor. For example. you have a gun that has very high spread like Gorgon and you are trying to aim at Lech's head. It goes that some of the bullets will miss because his head is a small target, but those bullets will go past him and hit the Bullet Attractor circle and, through skill mechanic, contribute to body damage.

 

So, basically, make the inside (not the outside) of a smaller bubble act as part of the body hitbox?

 

I'd be down for that one. So long as it lets me still hit my sonar blotch with my Snidal or Lanka, I'm down for it =P