Stealth Attack Modification

[RaianStar]

[EDIT 2] Currently you can only stealth attack (with animation) an enemy that has absolutely zero alertness.  This enemy must have absolutely no idea that you're there.  That means that if you're in a firefight or whatever gets the enemies on full alert, you can't perform a stealth attack.

 

But what if the enemy don't know that you're there?  You could be invisible while your team mates are engaging the enemy.  Your exact location would not be known to them, they wouldn't be able to see you and you would have zero awareness of your presence (i.e. no aggro at all).

 

You wouldn't necessarily need to be invisible either, sneaking up behind an enemy without being in any enemies line of sight should be enough to give you a stealth attack option.

 

It makes sense to me that you should be able to perform a stealth attack on enemies when you're in this state.  I'm thinking batman here.  He stealth '&#! whoops' all the time and he doesn't care if the enemy knows that he's somewhere.

 

This shouldn't be exploitable however.  AI should be able to compensate for this tactic so that it cannot be overused.  Being sighted performing a stealth attack on someone (long &#! animation) could place significant aggro on you and even cause the enemies to change their formation so that they have greater range of sight.

Edited August 9, 2013 by RaianStar

[Mietz]

If enemies are facing away from you, (i.e. Have their attention diverted), it should be possible to perform a stealth attack on them.  This would bring team dynamics to stealth play and improve the utility of Loki's stealth and distraction techniques significantly.

 

This would probably only really work if you had zero direct aggro on you to begin with.  (Direct aggro as in line of sight and aggro).

 

AI should be able to compensate for this tactic so that it cannot be overused.  Maybe being sighted performing a stealth kill on someone (long &#! animation) would place significant aggro on you?  

 

we already have this

 

[RaianStar]

we already have this

 

I'm talking about in the middle of a fire fight :s

 

Sorry for not being clear, I'll edit my post.

 

Nice screen shot btw...

Edited August 9, 2013 by RaianStar

[Mietz]

 

 

I'm talking about in the middle of a fire fight :s

 

Sorry for not being clear, I'll edit my post.

 

Nice screen shot btw...

 

 

What would be the point of a STEALTH attack if you are already detected?

[Enguzrad]

What would be the point of a STEALTH attack if you are already detected?

 

Well, enemy may know you are somewhere around, but they don't know where exactly if they don't see you. So you can surprise them from behind.

[RaianStar]

What would be the point of a STEALTH attack if you are already detected?

I know what you're saying however it strikes me as odd that just because my friend is getting shot at, I can't ninja behind him and put a sword through his spine / snap his neck / slit his throat etc.

 

Or just because people have seen me, I can't turn invisible or hide in the rafters and jump down behind someone and perform one of the above maneuvers.  

 

If you have zero aggro and are not currently in view of the enemy, why shouldn't you be able to stealth attack someone?

 

I'm thinking batman here.  He stealth '&#! whoops' all the time and he doesn't care if the enemy knows that he's somewhere.

[Mietz]

I know what you're saying however it strikes me as odd that just because my friend is getting shot at, I can't ninja behind him and put a sword through his spine / snap his neck / slit his throat etc.

 

Or just because people have seen me, I can't turn invisible or hide in the rafters and jump down behind someone and perform one of the above maneuvers.  

 

If you have zero aggro and are not currently in view of the enemy, why shouldn't you be able to stealth attack someone?

 

I'm thinking batman here.  He stealth '&#! whoops' all the time and he doesn't care if the enemy knows that he's somewhere.

 

You should rephrase your OP because right now its asking for something entirely different.

[RaianStar]

You should rephrase your OP because right now its asking for something entirely different.

As requested :)

[Cheesesky]

This is perfect! look at the PS4 trailer, for example. I think the frame was ash, not sure, and he kept going around the back stealth killing everyone while the other guys were doing their job. that's merging stealth with shoot'em up, i think it would open A LOT of incredible innovative ways to the fighting system. someone show the devs this.

It might take some time though, from what i've seen, the AI is made as to when you are seen, they know EXACTLY where you are, so they'd have to find that again and have to kind of reprogram it, but i think it would just change a lot of things, and it would even improve the AI in a normal gunfight.

[PaperAlien]

I think you should be able to stealth-kill any enemy that's facing away from you, regardless of alert level. It would probably not be very abusable because alert enemies will be trying to face you anyway. And if you flanked an alert enemy that was fighting a teammate etc, then you deserve that kill. The only situation I see that would be problematic would be with Loki and Saryn's decoy/moult.

[BladeMaverick]

This is perfect! look at the PS4 trailer, for example. I think the frame was ash, not sure, and he kept going around the back stealth killing everyone while the other guys were doing their job. that's merging stealth with shoot'em up, i think it would open A LOT of incredible innovative ways to the fighting system. someone show the devs this.

It might take some time though, from what i've seen, the AI is made as to when you are seen, they know EXACTLY where you are, so they'd have to find that again and have to kind of reprogram it, but i think it would just change a lot of things, and it would even improve the AI in a normal gunfight.

 

That would be Ash's Blade Storm, however.

 

Regardless, I think that yes that we should be able to perform stealth attacks while in the midst of a firefight. If the enemy doesn't have a line of sight on you at any angle, the option should pop up to attack. Though this would be abused by most with the use of Shade or Loki's/Ash's disappearing acts.

[Enguzrad]

On the other hand, these abilities are here for this thing. Just remove that bonus to damage and let them rely on stealth attacks. You paid energy, therefore you get free stealth kills. And Shade's cloak makes you invisible only when you don't attack and it has noticeable cooldown.

[Paprika]

On the other hand, these abilities are here for this thing. Just remove that bonus to damage and let them rely on stealth attacks. You paid energy, therefore you get free stealth kills. And Shade's cloak makes you invisible only when you don't attack and it has noticeable cooldown.

Yeah, but it's kind of ridiculous because the enemies are as dumb as sacks of bricks. I would love for the enemy AI to be able to infer cloaked targets' locations if the cloaked Tenno just spams bullets while invisible or does damage to an enemy unit in another unit's vicinity.

 

I'm all for the OP's idea, though.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Paprika

[Cheesesky]

Well, the game just has to be polished i guess... but from what i see, to improve the AI they would have to reprogram everything, because it would just change their focus target, their hideouts, everything, really... anyway, i think that right now the AI really needs an improvement, and i mean this as a first priority

[Enguzrad]

Yeah, but it's kind of ridiculous because the enemies are as dumb as sacks of bricks. I would love for the enemy AI to be able to infer cloaked targets' locations if the cloaked Tenno just spams bullets while invisible or does damage to an enemy unit in another unit's vicinity.

 

I'm all for the OP's idea, though.

I agree. They should turn around when something invisible kills their friend and shoot a few times around their dead comrade. Than on guard and look behind them more often, unless something other catches their attention.

[RaianStar]

It definitely comes down to an AI issue. But they did address this on the live stream. Unfortunately great AI cannot be built in a day... Instead they are incrementally improving it, slowly but surely.

I really hope that this gets taken into mind along with the other great AI suggestions in the forum. Thanks for all your support everybody!