Endless Mission Rewards Vs. Non-Endless Mission Rewards

[ThePresident777]

To start to make the rewards from these two mission categories more comparable I propose a counter for the non-endless missions so that doing a series of non-endless missions is more comaprable to doing rounds, waves, etc. in endless missions.

 

It might be difficult to make them all exactly rewarding but using a counter would begin to improve the situation.

 

The purpose of the counter is to mimic the progression of rewards in an endless mission.  It would have to factor in the delay in starting the next endless mission.  I propose being reasonable about the parameters.

 

I think it's worth giving it a try.

 

EDIT:  It just occurred to me that this is pretty much what the login reward system uses.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ThePresident777

[SgtFlex]

I think the problem in terms of each for rewards is that one can be done for nearly as long as the player can handle, whilst the other a player only gets 1 run, which means 1 opportunity to get said item they're looking for, which is extremely difficult seeing as percentages for some items are greatly reduced compared to other items in their drop tables

 

T4S: Dont get it in the first 20 minutes? Go 40/60/80 so on

 

T4E: Don't get what you want in your run? Use another key

 

 

I think the problem would be greatly improved if single run missions were awarded in key packs instead of just 1 key, whilst endless mission keys are only given 1 at a time.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SgtFlex

[letir]

No-endless need difficult settings or multi-targeting feature to actually match endless mission.

 

For example, Sabotage: there is few machines on mission, and you can destroy any number for reward.

1 Machine - enemes will be alerted; small reward.

2 Machine - enemies have level up; med. reward.

3 Machine - enemies will call more Eximi/Heavies; big reward.

4 Machine - enemies have level up, they lock up doors and set traps, alert can't be disabled; big reward+guaranted rare stuff.

5 Machine - high-lvl minboss blocks your extraction; big reward+x2 guaranted rare stuff.

[IeyasuTokugawa]

I suggest heavy nerf to endless mission rewards in addition. The problem with buffing non endless missions rewards is rushers, who got tools to rush, like copter or Volt. I suggest, along with nerfing endless rewards, also removing ability to copter and make volt's second ability only self-buff. And only after that we can talk about more rewards in non endless missions.

[Duch99pl]

No-endless need difficult settings or multi-targeting feature to actually match endless mission.

 

For example, Sabotage: there is few machines on mission, and you can destroy any number for reward.

1 Machine - enemes will be alerted; small reward.

2 Machine - enemies have level up; med. reward.

3 Machine - enemies will call more Eximi/Heavies; big reward.

4 Machine - enemies have level up, they lock up doors and set traps, alert can't be disabled; big reward+guaranted rare stuff.

5 Machine - high-lvl minboss blocks your extraction; big reward+x2 guaranted rare stuff.

 YES PLZ, STEVE, GEOFF, REBECCA AND ALL DE's, YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS !

[ThePresident777]

Using a counter is a start.  Of course, the drop tables would need work too.

 

Using a counter begins to remove the distinction between endless and non-endless, in terms of reward algorithm, because players can endlessly run non-endless missions.  The difference between endless and non-endless is that non-endless missions do not track between missions.  Endless misisons are essentially a series of non-endless missions with little to no downtime between runs and a tracking system for rewards.

 

Nerfing rewards is absolutely not acceptable.  The problem is that non-endless missions are virtually non-rewarding, not that endless missions are rewarding.  You don't fix a broken leg by breaking the other.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

Since endless missions are essentially a series of non-endless missions with little to no downtime between runs and a tracking system for rewards, making it possible to string non-endless missions endlessly would solve the down time problem.

 

There would still be the issue of some missions, like capture, having faster completion times thereby having higher rewards per time.  But, that is the issue we are discussing, Rewards Per Time.  Rewards Per Time must be solved directly, not indirectly by nerfing the game play as DE has done so many times.  Hopefully, Dailly Rep Cap indicates that game play will no longer be sacrificed for the sake of Rewards Per Time issues.

 

Would players prefer to be bored plus impatient or entertained plus impatient?  That's like the choice between having two broken legs or one.  The day that DE's competitors figure this out is the day Warframe players leave in droves to be entertained even if impatient.  And, nerfs or mastery fodder make it easier for players to leave because they destroy investment in the game.  Mastery fodder and nerfs create throw away content.  A game full of throw away content is a throw away game.  I don't think that is a sustainable situation.

[ThePresident777]

Many players perceive endlessness in a mission to be a higher quality than non-endlessness.  Why is it that oxygen supply popping, pod baby sitting, excavator baby sitting, and capture'n'hold the floating thing deserve to be higher quality yet extermination, capture, intel, sabotage are relegated to lower quality?

 

I think it would help the low quality missions if they had endless versions patterned on the same model as interception, with rewards normalized for the fact that some missions, such as capture, can be completed faster than others, thereby generating more reward opportunities over time.  Perhaps such missions would have a lower per round probability for high rewards, such as prime parts. but the same probability over time as other missions?

Edited January 11, 2015 by ThePresident777

[RaptorLD]

All i see seems to be about Voidmissions here, Prime here Prime there... What's about non void non endless missions? they seem to have no real rewardtable at all. Sure they do have a rewardtable but its so cheesy that you usually don't even realize it as a mission reward. Lowlvl cores / handfull credits / if lucky a selffullheal pack and since its not even marked as mission specific reward it vanishes in the puddle of other crap you collected.

 

Though Missionendreward is not the only thing that endless missions are better outfitted with.

Due to the high enemy concentration they are far better suited to level up stuff or farming ressources.

Especially in low to mid lvl the XP i get in a 10 minute survival / 10 wave defense or interception is higher than what i usually get in arround 5 non rushed non endless missions.(exception would be  mobile defense as they tend to have a high enemy density too)

Same goes for lootchances (atleast if it's not a mob that doesnt spawn in endless) as higher enemy density increses the chance of getting drops. This could be countered by the loot of stashes if they would give a reasonable amount but currently even in the void they are rather lackluster...

 

Actually endless defense is pretty much everything the non endless mission types offer (in lootterms) just substracting all the non rewarding parts like running long ways though always samelooking hallways and maybe placing a suitcase/disc somewhere for a xp bonus that is so low that you don't even see it on your bar.

[ThePresident777]

Those are all good points but the topic is about Endless Mission Rewards vs. Non-Endless Mission Rewards.  We're discussing the difference in mission rewards between endless and non-endless misisons, the rewards you get at the end of mission, wave, or round, not what the enemy drop.

 

Again, good points, but, it deserves it's own topic.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ThePresident777