The Optimum Way To Cut Down Void Rng (Heh, Puns)

[OptimumBow0]

So, I've been here just shy of a year, casually playing Warframe and checking out the forums everyday because I love this place.

 

With that, I feel obligated to try and be of some use.

 

What I had in mind for curbing RNG isn't a Token System, or an Orokin research lab with prime weapons, but a points system.

 

Disclaimer: All numerical values are placeholders 

Warning: Long Read

Earning points

Here's how it would work: Each Corrupted enemy in the void you have killed yields your group a small amount of points under a different name, like "Neural Sentry scrap", "Scrap Prime" or "Rad" (unit of radiation). 

 

Drones, when killed, yield a default of 2 points.

Corrupted Crewmen/Lancers yield 3 points.

Corrupted Ancients yield 4 points.

Corrupted Heavy Gunners yield 5 points.

Corrupted MOA's yield 6 points.

 

(These values don't mean anything, I thought I'd just order their hypothetical yields by perceived threat level)

 

Great, so you get more points for killing "harder" enemies. That's not fun at all though, nor does it promote skill..

 

So, how about a points multiplier based on the method of murder?

 

Here are some more numbers:

 

Melee kill - x2 points                            

Secondary kill - x1.5 points

Primary kill - Default Yield

Wall Attack - x3 points (Should probably be lower, but if you can do it with our current parkour system, you deserve it)

Headshot - x1.5 points

 

Now, the ability multiplier: x0.5 (still, subject to change, but the ability multiplier should still be less than every other multiplier)

 

Yep, sorry, but pressing 4 should be discouraged.

 

To sum it up - (Default Yield of enemy type) X (Murder Multiplier) = Your points earned.

 

Abilities that work in conjunction with weapons (Loki's/Ash's invis and melee or Volt's Electric Shield), follow this:

 

(Murder multiplier) X (Ability Multiplier) X (Default Yield of enemy type) = Your points earned.

 

If you have more multipliers, share them.

 

Alternative ways to get points:

 

Parkour Rooms - There successful completion shall grant you with a good amount of points.

 

Assists - CC'ing, partially damaging, or affecting any enemy so that they die faster will give you 50% of the points the person who killed the enemy in question (like the xp sharing).

 

So, someone gets a lethal headshot, earning x points, however, another player had landed a couple stray bullets, so he/she earns half the points (x0.75 multiplier instead of x1.5, effectively).

 

    - Courtesy of HiMeToEu (Thanks, man!)

 

How Points are handled:

The amount of points earned from each player will be totaled and then divided equally amongst each player.

 

 

Point Costs & Deviation

Each part will have it's individual point cost. If parts appear more than once (like, hypothetically, a Braton Prime Stock in TII and TIII Exterminate missions) the cost will not deviate, but that cost applies across just in one mission type.

 

The points you can earn, however, do change, so for higher Tiers, you earn more points per kill, or, in terms of game logic, you accumulate higher amounts of Rad due to enemies possessing an increased concentration of radiation/energy from the void which they release upon death.

 

For different mission types, points will have to deviate. I'd say enemies in Defense, Interception and Survival give you lower amounts of Rad, while those in Mobile Defense and Capture give you a bit more, and finally, enemies in Exterminate give you the most (lowest enemy count; needs a higher concentration of points)

 

For the endless missions, the cost of the prime parts will definitely have to increase with every completion of a 5 minute/5 wave interval. the prime parts will each "unlock" themselves after different wave-sets/time-intervals, and then one must rack up enough points to earn them. However, if you choose to stay longer, you can obtain a second prime part at a reduced cost (it's an incentive to not leave, get another Tier II Survival key, go the same amount of time, get that other part, and never challenge yourself)

 

For shorter missions, the cost would have to be lowered (possibly; it's all relative)

 

Or it could be organized completely differently. Whatever way you hypothetically want more.

 

Relatively speaking, newer content should probably have a higher points cost than older.

 

Solo Players - Point costs for prime parts should be changed if a crackpot dares to solo a void mission. The cost, of course, would be 1/4 of the normal requirement.

 

Acquiring Parts

You are a master of combat.

 

Your foes fall to your blade, a mere flash of quicksilver amidst the battle, turning all who oppose you into a puzzle of geometric shapes. They fall to your well placed aim with your Vasto, never missing an enemy's head. They fall to your mlg 360 no-scope quick-charge arrow shots. 

 

You've completed your mission, a Tier II Mobile Defense, with great ease, and the Lotus is calling you to extraction.

 

"Tenno, I'm detecting an ancient vault up ahead," remarks the secretive siren.

 

Exactly one hallway later, your cell of deadly assassins find a large and ornate room filled with 2-3 giant statues, each displaying 1 Prime Weapon.

 

The idea is that each statue is its own little safe that can only be opened with enough, you guessed it, points.

 

Gee whiz I'm so creative. 

 

So, with your earned points, you may walk up to a statue displaying the weapon of your choice, and use your points to obtain the one piece of that weapon available to you in the mission type (Like the Upper Limb, the Lower Limb, the Grip, and the String of the Paris Prime).

 

Part Allocation

I think it would be best for the parts of each prime to be scattered throughout Tiers and mission types like they are now

 

For example, if I complete a Tower I Capture, and come upon the orokin vault, I shall find a headless statue wielding a Paris Prime. Upon closer inspection, the Grip (which is currently in Tier I Capture) will be highlighted, and more corporeal, while the rest of the Paris will be faded, like an outline.

 

If I have the points requirement, I can walk up to it, and bestow my "Rad" upon it, turning the highlighted part of the outline completely solid and hey-how-do-you-do there's a Paris Prime Grip in my foundry.

 

If I run a Tier II Defense, find the vault, and the Paris Prime-wielding-headless-statue is there with a highlighted Upper Limb (since it drops in Tier II Defense), the Grip will still appear solid, notifying me of my progress towards the weapon's completion. This would be more of a novelty, though, but still cool. 

 

What I mean to say - Prime parts are still split by missions, so you can't run the same mission over and over and obtain the entirety of a weapon. The parts would most likely reside where they are now, but are more obtainable through "skill", not RNG. (This is here since I thought I got confusing)

 

RNG

Yes, kill me, burn me at the stake, or completely disregard this, but hear me out.

 

It's a little too easy to run 4 missions and instantly get everything for a prime.

 

So, I propose a little variation.

 

The Orokin Vault room (a better name would be nice since it doesn't require a key like the Derelicts) will have a 60% to contain 2 statues, and a 40% to contain 3, with each one holding a different prime part.

 

2 and 3 could be changed depending on how many parts are in a mission, and for easier missions it could be 1 statue with a 40% chance to spawn in a second one, but I think I'll keep it there since we're talking hypothetically.

 

As to which parts they hold, it would be best to just give every part an equal chance of showing up in the vault to keep us sane.

 

Here's a question though: Should parts be able to show up more than once at one time in a vault (Like 2/3 statues contain a Boar Prime Receiver)? Or should each statue have a different part regardless (If you have 3 statues, they all possess a different part every time)? Read the following section before you choose your answer

 

No Thanks

 

If you look up at the pretty statues, scan for a part you want, don't see it, and your heart breaks inside, I think you should at least walk away with a little something that will be worthwhile.

 

You would have an option to "Walk Away", which is exactly what it sounds like: You turn and run to extraction without picking up a part.

 

Depending on the amount of points you earn and the time it took you to complete the objective (Exterminate), or in other cases, how long you went (Defense, Survival Interception), the chance for one thing in that vault that you passed on will decrease by a very small %.(not 6% or more)

 

Now, each time you run the mission, there's a slightly higher chance of you getting what you want

 

However, this option would be more justified if the same part can spawn in more than once in a vault (So, if you have two statues, each with a Paris Prime String, you should definitely be allowed to walk away)

 

An Alternative: Your "Rad" can be converted from radiation into a couple of rare/uncommon fusion cores or mods. 

 

An Other, Other Alternative - There is no option to walk out. Just take the one part that people have been screaming the most for in trade chat. #2badscrublollrn2playrite #GOML

 

Getting the Same Part Twice

Trade Chat is the livelihood of many a player in this game, and I think I may safely say that prime parts are a good source of plat.

 

Therefore, if you've acquired a prime part already, you should still be able to get it again in much the same way you got it the first time.

 

To make sure prime parts don't lose their worth, a genius must be shut in a room for 1 month to figure out the best way to make this system challenging.

 

Or, dare I say it, Void Keys may need to become rare/uncommon items (we all have a crap-ton).

 

Pros - RNG is cut down, and parts can be obtained through higher amounts of skill

Cons - Primes might be a bit too easy to get depending on how well it's hypothetically implemented. Also, it would be hard to balance this system so that you aren't as rewarded for relying on your abilities and your primary than successfully killing a Corrupted Ancient with a Wall Attack (which is a slight more impressive).

 

I can't exactly work out if prime parts need to be re-allocated, or even where they should go, nor can I figure out how the point cost of parts should be determined vs possible points earned in a mission. Also, I feel like mission objectives should come into play.

 

My Final Plea

 

I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really want people to not shoot this whole idea down and leave it to die. I've endured too many threats and demands from my brother to "POST IT NOW!" to have this all go to waste.

 

Edit: Forgot a warning

Edit deux: Rad or Scrap Prime.

Edit 3: Forgot some details with dishing out points and what costs more

Edit 4: When will a mod move this? Thank you, Letter13 :D

Edit 5: Points earned during a mission can't be stocked up on; they disappear forever once the mission is successfully completed or brutally failed, whether you choose a reward or not.

Edit 6: Realized this might hurt Prime Trading. Hopefully someone's smart enough to come up with a good balance of hypothetical & existing mechanics to make acquiring parts challenging.

Edit 7: Added in a differentiated way to get Prime Parts in endless missions. It's not perfect, so, please, if you have ideas, give them to me.

 

However, with the difficulty of coming up with an incentive to stay longer, I don't think this should be applied so much to endless missions than as to Exterminate, Capture, and Mobile Defense simply because there is no reason to stay longer in them.

 

Edit 8: HiMeToEu's "points-assist rewards" suggestion.

Edited June 14, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[LatoObligato]

Kinda like the much talked about "token system", but with that being said, it's not a bad idea.

[OptimumBow0]

Kinda like the much talked about "token system", but with that being said, it's not a bad idea.

Yeah, but Tokens would just replace prime part drops. I just wanted to describe something a tad bit different.

[LatoObligato]

Yeah, but Tokens would just replace prime part drops. I just wanted to describe something a tad bit different.

In a sense, your points do what tokens are doing; you use them to pay for a Prime part. There's no real difference, except that yours are used at the end of the mission and tokens would be turned in at a latter time. 

[Sev7n]

Its creative and not bad but it is still a form of a token system

RNG system we have should remain imo (yes it could maybe use some tweaking but its not broken like everyone seems to think)

[Kirby47]

Interesting. Although, the points should be called "Scrap Prime", this could work.

[OptimumBow0]

In a sense, your points do what tokens are doing; you use them to pay for a Prime part. There's no real difference, except that yours are used at the end of the mission and tokens would be turned in at a latter time. 

Not quite; most Token systems I see usually consist of RNG handing out tokens you can exchange for parts.

I intended with this "points system" for you to earn your points through creatively killing enemies. 

 

The end result is pretty similar, I do admit.

Edited June 12, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[LatoObligato]

Not quite; most Token systems I see usually consist of RNG handing out tokens you can exchange for parts.

I intended with this "points system" for you to earn your points through creatively killing enemies. 

 

The end result is pretty similar, I do admit..

Oh, I was only talking about the end result. Sorry about that. Should've made it more clear.

 

Your earning system was different, yes. But if I may, I don't think points should be given from killing alone; tie those points into the parkour rooms, for one.

[OptimumBow0]

Oh, I was only talking about the end result. Sorry about that. Should've made it more clear.

 

Your earning system was different, yes. But if I may, I don't think points should be given from killing alone; tie those points into the parkour rooms, for one.

Nice.

[Sev7n]

Not quite; most Token systems I see usually consist of RNG handing out tokens you can exchange for parts.

I intended with this "points system" for you to earn your points through creatively killing enemies. 

 

The end result is pretty similar, I do admit.

 

The token systems out there are basically anything that lets you earn x to purchase y which is what your idea is based around

 

But dont get me wrong its a good idea and you should keep it, if there is ever a use for token system in this game yours would be pretty cool

(especially the room with 3 statues, they should do this regardless of points with orokin vaults, having options of which corrupted artifact to take would be interesting and put less hate on its rng since it "could" be your fault if you ended up with a bad mod lol)

[OptimumBow0]

-snip-

Thanks for some more clarification and thanks!

[koolen]

I like it, but points will be allowed to all the team ? If no everybody will go in void with anova, and we wont have fun :/

[OptimumBow0]

I like it, but points will be allowed to all the team ? If no everybody will go in void with anova, and we wont have fun :/

Oh, yeah, I had a hard time figuring out if points should be universal or if they should be specific to each person, and I kinda forgot to include it in there.

 

I guess points should accumulate between each player and the total amount would be split equally among the members of each cell to make it fair.

 

Edit: Thanks for pointing that out. Also, if you have your own idea about sharing points, do tell.

Edited June 12, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[SilentMobius]

DE are (quite rightly) against any system that allows us to stock up on "stuff" so we can grab every new prime as soon as it comes out.

 

Any token/points system _must_ include a mechanism that requires the player to do a substantial amount of play _after_ the release of a new prime in order to get it.

 

Any system without that is dead in the water.

[OptimumBow0]

DE are (quite rightly) against any system that allows us to stock up on "stuff" so we can grab every new prime as soon as it comes out.

 

Any token/points system _must_ include a mechanism that requires the player to do a substantial amount of play _after_ the release of a new prime in order to get it.

 

Any system without that is dead in the water.

Wait, could you elaborate by what you mean when you say "Stock up on stuff"?

[Soulden]

DE are (quite rightly) against any system that allows us to stock up on "stuff" so we can grab every new prime as soon as it comes out.

 

Any token/points system _must_ include a mechanism that requires the player to do a substantial amount of play _after_ the release of a new prime in order to get it.

 

Any system without that is dead in the water.

Valid point there.

The idea sounds good in theory, but if you have to, lets say, introduce a new currency for every content update, you will end up with such a mess that the grind would seem more bearable, and most lower tiers of content will get ignored altogether.

 

This idea should not be discarded yet, but sure needs more feedback.

[Soulden]

Wait, could you elaborate by what you mean when you say "Stock up on stuff"?

Stack on tokens rewards for months, wait for next content buy your parts on day 1 I believe. 

[Cerokhol]

But if you only get the points in the mission and all points are lost at the end of the mission, then you couldn't just buy the new parts....

 

The way I am reading this, which may be horribly wrong, is that you get so many points in one run. If you get enough you can pick anything from 2-3 options. If you don't get enough you might not get any options. When you leave all points are lost/turned into cores.

 

That means when the new stuff comes out you would still be at zero points, and you would need to run until they show up in the vault.

 

 

I like this more for the fact that it gives a choice of a couple different rewards each run than the idea of a token system, where you would just stack all the tokens for T1 captures and buy all the primes in the game.

[OptimumBow0]

But if you only get the points in the mission and all points are lost at the end of the mission, then you couldn't just buy the new parts....

 

The way I am reading this, which may be horribly wrong, is that you get so many points in one run. If you get enough you can pick anything from 2-3 options. If you don't get enough you might not get any options. When you leave all points are lost/turned into cores.

 

That means when the new stuff comes out you would still be at zero points, and you would need to run until they show up in the vault.

 

 

I like this more for the fact that it gives a choice of a couple different rewards each run than the idea of a token system, where you would just stack all the tokens for T1 captures and buy all the primes in the game.

This guy got it.

 

Sorry fellas for not being more clear, I'll edit that.

[Soulden]

This guy got it.

 

Sorry fellas for not being more clear, I'll edit that.

That makes a lot more sense. 

Just gotta clarify that once mission score/reward page comes up, thats the only time you (might?) get the option to use those points.

 

Keep this alive and keep the feedback coming.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Souldend78

[OptimumBow0]

That makes a lot more sense. 

Just gotta clarify that once mission score/reward page comes up, thats the only time you (might?) get the option to use those points.

When your squadron enters the "Orokin Vault" (or whatever it should be called; we have enough vaults), that is the only time you may use your points.

 

Edit: Alternatively, you can walk out with a consolation prize or spend your points on a part that's in high demand in trade-chat.

Edited June 12, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[PsionicSt0rm]

There should be a scoring system similar to what they have in defiance (of course tuned into a more warframe style)but your system seems to be based on kills meaning that poor RD masterrace and Vortex Booben get nothing from it. Maybe some sort of radial point scoring system which encourages teamplay and a shared (like 50% shared) point dirstibution so that those support dedicated players are rewarded more.

[OptimumBow0]

There should be a scoring system similar to what they have in defiance (of course tuned into a more warframe style)but your system seems to be based on kills meaning that poor RD masterrace and Vortex Booben get nothing from it. Maybe some sort of radial point scoring system which encourages teamplay and a shared (like 50% shared) point dirstibution so that those support dedicated players are rewarded more.

OK, let me re-iterate: Enemies have a base value number of points they give to you when you kill them.

 

These base values are affected by "multipliers" which dictate how many points one earns from killing an enemy.

 

Which multiplier you get depends on how you killed an enemy.

 

So, if a player kills an enemy with any ability at their disposal, the multiplier for doing so is 0.5. This means that if a Rhino Stomps his way through a Void Mission, he/she is getting only half the points each enemy has to offer, which, I hope, would discourage "Press 4 to win" and would put CC frames with low-damage outputs, like Vauban, on a level playing field with frames like Nova.

 

I'll make note of that scoring system you suggested.

Edited June 12, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[YashiroSora]

I believe some Prime Weapons or equipment should have a right to be placed in the Orokin Lab, as it would lessen the RNG and load of the Drop Tables, along with some actual use of researching Orokin Tech in the lab. However i do find this system interesting but i wonder how it would work in a Survival mission.

Edited June 12, 2014 by YashiroSora

[OptimumBow0]

I believe some Prime Weapons or equipment should have a right to be placed in the Orokin Lab, as it would lessen the RNG and load of the Drop Tables, along with some actual use of researching Orokin Tech in the lab. However i do find this system interesting but i wonder how it would work in a Survival mission.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind if the Braton Prime was put in research to give newbie clannies a taste for the void.

 

As to Survival, it's tricky, because there needs to be a reason for you to stay longer, challenge yourself, and what-not. The same goes for Defense and Interception.

 

I'll think on it, and I would like it if someone else would try and come up with a suggestion as well.