Melee Needs Changes (And All For The Better)

[Eldnacpeek]

Melee needs a major increase in damage along with many other changes.

1)Channeling:

Channeling is a waste of energy, does not do enough damage, the majority of Channeling mods have negative effects that are 1) greater than the advantage and 2) have no way to counter (Reflex Coil+Focus Energy does little).

Most of the Channeling mods are completely underpowered compared to their regular melee counterpart. In other words, you're directly losing efficiency with no advantage gained whatsoever. No one will use True Punishment over True Steel, no one will us Quickening over Fury or Berserker, and the closest to what someone may call 'useful' is Enduring Strike. Enduring Strike is the only mod that surpasses its regular variant, Melee Prowess (+60% Status chance when Channeling over Melee Prowess' pathetic 15% all together).

2) General Damage

Melee damage itself is incredibly underpowered and nowhere near gunplay. Don't give me that Scindo+Tempo Royale nonsense, that doesn't matter when the majority of weapons suck compared to it.

One powerful melee weapon doesn't make the entirety of melee weapons powerful.

3) Blocking

Now let's talk about the abysmal changes to blocking. It is now no longer 100% damage reduction. The max block reduction is 85%, present in Sword & Shield, Nikanas, Hammers, heavy blades, Machetes, Polearms, and Scythes. By far, the biggest problem with this is that 85% is significantly low, even 99% can be considered low. Why? Enemies in Warframe, at high levels of course, do massive amounts of damage. Even a 99% resistance can have you losing health and shields incredibly fast at the rate of fire and damage enemies deliver.

Another major problem with the blocking changes is that the weapons that have lower block rates did not receive any sort of way to counter that. I'm sorry DE, the blocking changes were not implemented well, they really weren't. If you're going to change the way blocking works for weapons with each series blocking a set percentage of damage, you need to balance the weapons with low block rates somehow so they perform well in other categories besides blocking.

This did not happen. Instead, many weapons have low block rates with no way to compensate for them. Example, Daggers now block 35%. "Oh that's bad, but this means that they do something incredibly awesome to counter that poor block rate, right?" Wrong. Covert Lethality is just a band-aid that should have never happened. Claws also have a 35% block rate. "This means they do something really cool that weapons with high block rate can't, right?" Still no, and even worse is that Claws have no mod to fix anything about them. Out of the weak melee system, Claws are the weakest.

Daggers, Claws, Tonfa, Whips, Sparring, Glaive, Dual Daggers, all these weapons have 35% block rate and have gained no buff at all to make up for it.

In my opinion, blocking needs to return to 100% reduction. It was balanced the way it was.

1) You can only block from the front

2) Melee must be equipped in order to do so (Reflex Guard aside)

However, another possibility could be a specific damage cap. This way it is not a percentage based reduction meaning that even at 85% block rate, you can still die within a matter of seconds. Instead, the melee weapon blocks a specific amount of damage by an exact number and scales with the level of the weapon.

In addition to this idea, there could also be a mod to increase the number. Possible Exilus for melee? For now, let's just talk about the mod. The general idea is that (obviously based on the rank+stats of it) the mod will increase the damage reduction (additively), thereby decreasing the damage gained.

4) Combo Counter

I am fairly certain everyone in Warframe agrees the counter needs changes. Definitely a buff for the duration of it so 1000+ combos can't only be accomplished by Ash using Rising Storm. Maybe lessen the combo requirements to get to higher multipliers as well, whatever works.

I only want to see the best for melee. With U17's changes to blocking, melee has been decreased to a less viable state than it was before.

Edited September 2, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

I agree about channeling and blocking but I disagree completely with general dmg and combo counter. There are alot of good melees. And saying let's not give credit to the scindo p is pretty stupid I mean ur comparing the worst of melees to the best of guns at tht point there are plenty of horrendous guns why don't we compare all melees to the mk1 Beaton

Not to mention if u dedicate yourelf to melee u quickly deal 2x dmg I think melee is in a very good state right now(I would like to see charging back aswell)

Edited August 31, 2015 by (PS4)CrazyDeadPerson

[Bryntwulf]

Yeah; melee in general needs a buff. Even with a max-damage corrosive galatine, a corrupted bombard can still reduce the damage per strike down to 20. I think Melee should bypass resistances by varying degrees, since theyre generally single-target weapons. (Dont let that bypass move to excal though, or else people will start claiming that he's overpowered again.)

[IronWolfKnight]

I think what the Combo Counter needs is two things:

 

1. When you leave it, it goes down over time instead of resetting to zero.

 

2. When the damage multiplier goes up, your attack speed increases.

 

Another thing I would like to see is a "over the head" camera perspective that's often used in Hack and Slash games when switching to melee. The current camera position only works for gun combat and it narrows your field of vision when using melee which is especially bad when you get surrounded by high level enemies.

 

Melee aiming is another thing that should happen so we can hit targets above and below us and be able to headshot consistently.

Edited August 31, 2015 by IronWolfKnight

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

Yeah; melee in general needs a buff. Even with a max-damage corrosive galatine, a corrupted bombard can still reduce the damage per strike down to 20. I think Melee should bypass resistances by varying degrees, since theyre generally single-target weapons. (Dont let that bypass move to excal though, or else people will start claiming that he's overpowered again.)

The exaggeration is real I don't know your setup or if u were against lvl 300's but if u have you build correctly tht will never be the case

[Eldnacpeek]

I agree about channeling and blocking but I disagree completely with general dmg and combo counter. There are alot of good melees. And saying let's not give credit to the scindo p is pretty stupid I mean ur comparing the worst of melees to the best of guns at tht point there are plenty of horrendous guns why don't we compare all melees to the mk1 Beaton

Not to mention if u dedicate yourelf to melee u quickly deal 2x dmg I think melee is in a very good state right now(I would like to see charging back aswell)

 

 

I dedicate myself to melee. With Dragon Nikana at 3.5x multiplier at 1200+ hits with a combo, it still lacks damage and falls off incredibly quickly.

 

I disagree with you, melee entirely needs a buff and no combo counter multiplier will make it even slightly more powerful.

 

Charge attacks are returning.

 

 

The exaggeration is real I don't know your setup or if u were against lvl 300's but if u have you build correctly tht will never be the case

 

 

He wasn't exagerrating anything.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

I dedicate myself to melee. With Dragon Nikana at 3.5x multiplier at 1200+ hits with a combo, it still lacks damage and falls off incredibly quickly.

 

I disagree with you, melee entirely needs a buff and no combo counter multiplier will make it even slightly more powerful.

Do u use loki or excal? With them the dmg output is easily more than any gun in the game especially with the finisher mod on excal I can hit 1 mill without even max power strength how can u say tht is underpowered

[Rexlars]

Dont let that bypass move to excal though

 

This makes 0 sense. 

 

@ topic: I feel that they should just give blocking a meter similar to the way stamina worked but tweaked for melee & how hard enemies hit. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Rexlars

[Bryntwulf]

The exaggeration is real I don't know your setup or if u were against lvl 300's but if u have you build correctly tht will never be the case

It Even with a two 90% elemental mods for corrosive on Galatine, the weapon is still primarily slash with a below-average attack speed(Spoiled Strike is practically necessary), meaning that it has to compete against the 75% resistance that the C.Bombards get from their armor. As they get more armor, the damage dealt by slash decreases tremendously. 

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

It Even with a two 90% elemental mods for corrosive on Galatine, the weapon is still primarily slash with a below-average attack speed(Spoiled Strike is practically necessary), meaning that it has to compete against the 75% resistance that the C.Bombards get from their armor. As they get more armor, the damage dealt by slash decreases tremendously.

This is very true but u should be running 4x corr projection I mean if ur hitting tht with ur melee ur weapons arnt doing anything either

[Eldnacpeek]

Do u use loki or excal? With them the dmg output is easily more than any gun in the game especially with the finisher mod on excal I can hit 1 mill without even max power strength how can u say tht is underpowered

 

 

I am not even remotely speaking of finishers, I am talking about melee damage entirely, not slow animations that can be activated under specific circumstances. Specific warframes are irrelevant, frame powers don't make the entirety of melee weapons powerful. Melee is still underpowered and weak compared to gunplay, this is my main point.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

Forget finishers, I am talking about melee damage entirely, not slow animations that can be activated under specific circumstances. Loki and Ash are irrelevant, frame powers don't make the entirety of melee weapons powerful, melee is still underpowered and weak compared to gunplay.

Saying tht finisher's and frames don't count is like taking away mods from weapons,if u don't use everything at ur disposal to get the most out of it of course it's gonna suck

[Eldnacpeek]

Saying tht finisher's and frames don't count is like taking away mods from weapons,if u don't use everything at ur disposal to get the most out of it of course it's gonna suck

 

 

I shouldn't be forced to use specific warframes for melee. Melee should do equal damage, possibly even more due to the skill required, than gunplay. I don't want to be forced to use slow finishers for one enemy for a map fileld with 100 of them.

 

"Of course it's gonna suck" It shouldn't suck by default and even with the addition of mods outside of Life Strike. Melee does nearly suck right now and the damage needs a massive buff. Even simply buffing Pressure Point can satisfy me.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[Cryozen7]

Do u use loki or excal? With them the dmg output is easily more than any gun in the game especially with the finisher mod on excal I can hit 1 mill without even max power strength how can u say tht is underpowered

 

That does not make melee good.  You should be able to say "I want to do a melee only mission on <insert frame here>."  That only means those frames have an overwhelming advantage when it comes to melee.

 

A melee oriented frame should supplement melee, not be the crutch that melee has to hang on to.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Speddy54

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

I shouldn't be forced to use specific warframes for melee. Melee should do equal damage, possibly even more due to the skill required, than gunplay. I don't want to be forced to use slow finishers for one enemy for a map fileld with 100 of them.

 

"Of course it's gonna suck" It shouldn't suck by default and even with the addition of mods outside of Life Strike. Melee does nearly suck right now and the damage needs a massive buff. Even simply buffing Pressure Point can satisfy me.

What melee's do u use and with what builds unless we are playing different games your doing something wrong

[Eldnacpeek]

What melee's do u use and with what builds unless we are playing different games your doing something wrong

 

 

Builds don't even matter, melee is still underpowered. I'm not doing something wrong at all, melee in general is weak.

 

I might ask what levels exactly you are playing against, and if you use frames who only buff melee. If you use frames that buff melee, it doesn't matter, that does not make melee powerful. If you play against low levels, of course you're killing everything.

 

"What melees do you use?" That's a problem, I should be able to use Claws without being punished. Claws are the weakest weapons of the weakest weapon series in game. I should NOT be forced to use a single weapon which you seem to be supporting.

 

My most used melee is the Dragon Nikana with over 100k kills. I have achieved over 1000+ combos (with screenshots) and have the experience to say that melee is still underpowered regardless of the multipliers, channeling, etc.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[Bryntwulf]

This is very true but u should be running 4x corr projection I mean if ur hitting tht with ur melee ur weapons arnt doing anything either

Most people dont actually enjoy being forced into using the optimal build. 

We shouldnt have to have 4 CPs just to keep our weapons from becoming useless. 

 

We, the players, should have a choice between multiple play styles, without needing to worry about which one is optimal. That's the whole point of being able to choose a build, isnt it? 

 

It would be boring if EVERYONE was running around with a Soma Prime, Dual Ichors, and a Vaykor Marelok on one of the four top-tier frames, wouldnt it? 

Edited August 31, 2015 by KyoBladezen

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

What melee's do u use and with what builds unless we are playing different games your doing something wrong

U can tho there isn't anything on the star chart tht most melees can't handle just aswell as guns(not as fast cuz melees are single target) the only time melees become a problem dps is like 30-45 min in survival and defence at which point even with guns need to have special conditions to take down the enemies quickly

[Bryntwulf]

U can tho there isn't anything on the star chart tht most melees can't handle just aswell as guns(not as fast cuz melees are single target) the only time melees become a problem dps is like 30-45 min in survival and defence at which point even with guns need to have special conditions to take down the enemies quickly

The very fact that melee weapons are generally single-target weapons is a clear sign that they should be able to take down single-targets more effectively than most guns, isnt it? 

[Eldnacpeek]

U can tho there isn't anything on the star chart tht most melees can't handle just aswell as guns(not as fast cuz melees are single target) the only time melees become a problem dps is like 30-45 min in survival and defence at which point even with guns need to have special conditions to take down the enemies quickly

 

 

Gunplay still overpowers melee even at high levels. Eventually the common thing happens where all that's needed is CC and damage can't even be done. With the many issues of infinite scaling and armor in Warframe currently, we have to propose ideas to deal with it the way it is right now because something like infinite scaling is a long term goal for DE.

 

Therefore, melee should be able to be on par with gunplay regardless of enemy levels. I am proposing buffs to melee damage, why exactly are you against this? However you play, because you claim melee is powerful, will be even more enjoyable, optional, viable, and fun way to play.

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

Builds don't even matter, melee is still underpowered. I'm not doing something wrong at all, melee in general is weak.

 

I might ask what levels exactly you are playing against, and if you use frames who only buff melee. If you use frames that buff melee, it doesn't matter, that does not make melee powerful. If you play against low levels, of course you're killing everything.

 

"What melees do you use?" That's a problem, I should be able to use Claws without being punished. Claws are the weakest weapons of the weakest weapon series in game. I should NOT be forced to use a single weapon which you seem to be supporting.

 

My most used melee is the Dragon Nikana with over 100k kills. I have achieved over 1000+ combos (with screenshots) and have the experience to say that melee is still underpowered regardless of the multipliers, channeling, etc.

I don't support there being a single weapon to rein upon them all but realistically there are good melees and bad guns and vice versa. It's impossible to balance and u can't ask tht of DE with some many weapons. There should be tiers of weapons for ex god tier,great weapons,mediocre and,for new players. I feel tht for the most part the game is alrdy set this way with both guns and melees

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

Most people dont actually enjoy being forced into using the optimal build. 

We shouldnt have to have 4 CPs just to keep our weapons from becoming useless. 

 

We, the players, should have a choice between multiple play styles, without needing to worry about which one is optimal. That's the whole point of being able to choose a build, isnt it? 

 

It would be boring if EVERYONE was running around with a Soma Prime, Dual Ichors, and a Vaykor Marelok on one of the four top-tier frames, wouldnt it?

Just about any melee and gun in the game can handle quite well on the star chart when u go into high lvl stuff is the only time u need to put on your try hard pants and break out the best weapons in the game

[Eldnacpeek]

I don't support there being a single weapon to rein upon them all but realistically there are good melees and bad guns and vice versa. It's impossible to balance and u can't ask tht of DE with some many weapons. There should be tiers of weapons for ex god tier,great weapons,mediocre and,for new players. I feel tht for the most part the game is alrdy set this way with both guns and melees

 

 

Except it's not. Claws are by far the most underpowered weapon series of an already underpowered playstyle. People should stop asking for buffs to singular melee weapons when the system as whole has many flaws.

 

You personally feel that the game is set for weapons. I don't. Can we end this conversation then? You disagree with me and I, along with anyone else, can't in any way change your opinion no matter how hard I try, and as you see I and few others have been,

Edited August 31, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

Except it's not. Claws are by far the most underpowered weapon series of an already underpowered playstyle. People should stop asking for buffs to singular melee weapons when the system as whole has many flaws.

 

You personally feel that the game is set for weapons. I don't. Can we end this conversation then? You disagree with me and I, along with anyone else, can't in any way change your opinion no matter how hard I try, and as you see I and few others have been,

I will stop with this statement there are bad gun types (snipers for example) but nonetheless a single weapon or weapon type doesn't mean all guns or melees are bad

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

The very fact that melee weapons are generally single-target weapons is a clear sign that they should be able to take down single-targets more effectively than most guns, isnt it?

What non melee weapon can consistently hit 1 million dmg