Harder Planets, Please.

[DanPaul7]

With the new mod system the game got a little easy, now with the Forma, the game has gotten VERY easy. Playing through the tier III void missions however is much more challenging and as a result, much more fun.

I would love to see a new planet, or two, that present a more difficult challenge than what we currently have. A planet with enemies between the 50-90 range, and another with enemies between the 90-120 range would be VERY fun and challenging.

Please do it. Now. Please.

Edit: Please also do a complete AI revamp, they're stupid. We hate them.

Edited May 29, 2013 by DanPaul7

[LucentsLight]

I agree with this. Pluto runs are... Meh, at most. At least in the void lower tiers, I get a change in scenery. 

 

 

More areas would be nice. I would love for them to actually get up to about 200-400+ enemies. 

[Fatalityyy]

Would be freaking amazing because it would finally be harder and they should make rare mod drop chances higher there (Just a little).

There are so much Planets left they could do. ^^

 

Edit:

The Only Challenge atm are Def-Missions... but with a nice group also this is easy in waves like 50 or higher. (atleast for infected)

Edited May 29, 2013 by Fatalityyy

[VoidPunch]

I agree, while Pluto is harder then the rest of the planets, it is nothing for a leveled up warframe. I easily run missions on hear with a braton. I would like some harder missions every so often, even if it is just alerts for very hard missions. or a mission with one boss and no enemies but have that boss ridiculously harder to beat

[Zh40]

Void tower 3 missions will probably kick your &#!, haha.

[LucentsLight]

Void tower 3 missions will probably kick your &#!, haha.

Not unless your Warframe is leveled up and you actually work with your team. :P

[Fatalityyy]

Void 3 Missions are easy :o you could also solo them with the right Weapons and Frame (or with enough Skill).

But who would do something like that? would be very egoistic!

Edited May 29, 2013 by Fatalityyy

[DanPaul7]

Void tower 3 missions will probably kick your &#!, haha.

I stated in my post that Tower III void missions present a challenge. However they are still not quite hard enough.

[stacey69]

With the new mod system the game got a little easy, now with the Forma, the game has gotten VERY easy. Playing through the tier III void missions however is much more challenging and as a result, much more fun.

I would love to see a new planet, or two, that present a more difficult challenge than what we currently have. A planet with enemies between the 50-90 range, and another with enemies between the 90-120 range would be VERY fun and challenging.

Please do it. Now.

Void tier 3 solo is where the challenge is mate. Just did one and it was very hard. 3 deaths towards the end. For end game it is amazing. Just doesn't scale yet into multiplayer with all the ultimate spells we have. If they could transfer the single player Void tier 3 experience into 4 player this game would be the best on the planet. Its in Beta so we can only live and hope. The waypoint system is still as much use as a chocolate teapot even in Void missions sometimes but the gameplay is out of this world.

 

I went in with a Polarized rank 15 Latron Prime and came out with a rank 20 Latron Prime. At the start it was fun and funky. Didn't have to duck and cover much. Near the end it was very difficult. The only way I could clear the Commander packs was by throwing the Glaive, Shooting their head a couple of times before heading for cover or a doorway. Throw the Glaive again etc and shoot in between it returning. You don't have enough damage per ammo for the amount of kills otherwise. I could not use any inventory packs:( Presuming its still broken.

 

This game is expensive if you want everything now. You can farm for Tier 3 keys. The thing is... After an hour or so solo in void 3 you don't want to play again straight away. Not at that level anyway. You have to look at it that if you want end game material go buy a few keys with platinum. If you want Frost Prime etc then just farm the normal stuff with friends.

 

The rewards are good for the money you spend if you want everything now and can not wait. Let me know how you get on with the solo Tier 3 void experience. Pm me on how you found it. I thought it was stunning, balanced and made me want to relax after playing in there. My energy is gone from those horrible high level mobs with their special abilities all working together. O and the tanks... 2 deaths. They are seriously nasty. You see them, you run. Get some cover and shoot if and when you can. I was full defense spec with Handspring Retributiuon etc and they tore me to pieces. Didn't help using an unlevelled gun but you can switch for the hard mobs to your pistols. MIND THE TANKS ! :)

 

Great game don't knock it. Play it how it was meant to be played. With skill, not an aoe fest.

[Aizeol]

It seems that again this topic has come up.

What exactly do you mean by "harder"? Do you mean enemies that are more bullet-spongy? or enemies that are smarter?

Those are very different things, and honestly only one should be viable. There are enough enemies that have their difficulty stem from how much damage they can take. I agree, there should be some actual difficulty in this game. What is concerning is how vague so many requests for increased difficulty always seem to be.

[Aizeol]

I stated in my post that Tower III void missions present a challenge. However they are still not quite hard enough.

Again, why aren't they hard enough? Be specific. Currently the only difficulty in the game is that enemies take more damage and deal more than enemies at lower levels. Is that all that can be requested? Enemies that are more intelligent will provide an increased challenge at any difficulty and will reward players willing to learn their enhanced behavior.

[DanPaul7]

Void tier 3 solo is where the challenge is mate.

Yeah that would be quite the challenge. I want to be able to access that challenge ALL of the time though, and like you said, have it at that difficulty, whilst retaining the fun of multiplayer because I don't like to play on my own.

Also I know the game would be a lot harder if I did as you said and never used my AoE skills, but I have them and will use them, and if I don't, someone else will. We just need harder planets, harder mobs, awesome fun.

Edited May 29, 2013 by DanPaul7

[LucentsLight]

It seems that again this topic has come up.

What exactly do you mean by "harder"? Do you mean enemies that are more bullet-spongy? or enemies that are smarter?

Those are very different things, and honestly only one should be viable. There are enough enemies that have their difficulty stem from how much damage they can take. I agree, there should be some actual difficulty in this game. What is concerning is how vague so many requests for increased difficulty always seem to be.

I actually want both of those. :P

[VScipii26]

I can run Pluto with a rank 3 Excalibur, rank 6 Burston, rank 4 Sicarus, and rank 8 Dark Dagger.

The main problem is less about numbers, more about the actual difficultly of the game. It's all but a point and click adventure when it comes to enemy power. There just aren't that many basic enemies that can be seeing as a real threat, outside of fake difficult from things like Rollers and Ancients.

The new enemies give some delicious variety that was needed, and I hope we keep in that direction.

[DanPaul7]

Again, why aren't they hard enough? Be specific. Currently the only difficulty in the game is that enemies take more damage and deal more than enemies at lower levels. Is that all that can be requested? Enemies that are more intelligent will provide an increased challenge at any difficulty and will reward players willing to learn their enhanced behavior.

I said higher levels, so more enemy damage output and enemy health.

Don't see the AI being improved any time soon... AI sucks on pretty much every game anyway, it's never smart enough.

[Aizeol]

I actually want both of those. :P

Please don't. That is honestly part of the problem. Making an enemy bullet-spongy is a lazy attempt to make something a challenge. I know you might have been joking, but that can kill a game.

[Aizeol]

I said higher levels, so more enemy damage output and enemy health.

Don't see the AI being improved any time soon... AI sucks on pretty much every game anyway, it's never smart enough.

But it is a change that could improve every part of this game. Please don't just ask for the lazy solution. Enhanced AI with new moves will challenge both veteran players and new players alike. Having the AI respond to the player is a better solution because it means that the player must vary their play style.

[Dasmir]

With the new mod system the game got a little easy, now with the Forma, the game has gotten VERY easy. Playing through the tier III void missions however is much more challenging and as a result, much more fun.

I would love to see a new planet, or two, that present a more difficult challenge than what we currently have. A planet with enemies between the 50-90 range, and another with enemies between the 90-120 range would be VERY fun and challenging.

Please do it. Now. Please.

 

yeh, we need lvl 100+ planet

[DanPaul7]

But it is a change that could improve every part of this game. Please don't just ask for the lazy solution. Enhanced AI with new moves will challenge both veteran players and new players alike. Having the AI respond to the player is a better solution because it means that the player must vary their play style.

It's not going to happen, AI sucks on every game and I KNOW it will never be smart enough to matter.

[Aizeol]

It's not going to happen, AI sucks on every game and I KNOW it will never be smart enough to matter.

Really? That's pretty pessemistic. Have a little faith that someone knows how to code AI that can provide a challenge.

I don't want this game destroyed because it becomes to hard for new players to play, causing the company to tank because they can't continue to expand.

AI that is smarter will provide a new challenge. It will be fresh and breathe more life into this game that it desperately needs. Now, that isn't to say that bullet-spongeness doesn't have a place. Elite enemies and bosses benefit from having their encounters last longer. It lets the player experience the whole boss fight as intended.

But the average enemy does not need to just "be harder" because they take x-amount of bullets to kill. That doesn't make the game more fun. It just adds a challenge for those that want to brag. Those also have their place. Being able to beat wave 100 on an endless defense is not an easy task, and deserves to be celebrated. Beating another level on a planet that doesn't matter on its own is not important and shouldn't be the same difficulty.

[DanPaul7]

Really? That's pretty pessemistic. Have a little faith that someone knows how to code AI that can provide a challenge

Sure i'm a pessimist. If someone makes awesome AI that is super smart and wants to sneak jump down from floors above, knock me to the ground and slice my throat open, sure that would be cooL. Though I will probably just end up killing them with ONE DAMN BULLET.

[Aizeol]

Sure i'm a pessimist. If someone makes awesome AI that is super smart and wants to sneak jump down from floors above, knock me to the ground and slice my throat open, sure that would be cooL. Though I will probably just end up killing them with ONE DAMN BULLET.

Ok. But what about an entire faction reacting to your actions? What about enemies that retreat to a better position and set up flanks. But enemies that simply take more damage won't be rewarding. They don't make the game better.

Enemies that push a player to think and assess what his opponent is doing before taking action is the basis of a rewarding encounter, because when you overcome that challenge it means you accurately saw the plan the enemy was using.

That will give a more rewarding challenge than being able to deal x-amount of damage against an enemy with y-amount of health.

[DanPaul7]

Ok. But what about an entire faction reacting to your actions? What about enemies that retreat to a better position and set up flanks. But enemies that simply take more damage won't be rewarding. They don't make the game better.

Enemies that push a player to think and assess what his opponent is doing before taking action is the basis of a rewarding encounter, because when you overcome that challenge it means you accurately saw the plan the enemy was using.

That will give a more rewarding challenge than being able to deal x-amount of damage against an enemy with y-amount of health.

You are correct it would be MUCH better as you describe. However the problem still stands that enemies die in 1-2 shots with a medium modded weapon. No good having them retreat, they will all be dead. I just ran a pluto mission using excalibur with no mods, and the biggest problem I faced was laser doors and automated turrets. Enemies didn't get close to challenging.

So sure we will need new AI for true fun, but we will need higher level enemies along with that. Which is easier to implement? I'm damn sure some higher level enemies would be a lot easier to implement than a complete AI revamp.

Edited first post just for you.

Edited May 29, 2013 by DanPaul7

[stacey69]

Sorry but I do not agree about the AI. The problem is the game was not balanced pre patch 8. The balance is now only in the new missions unless you balance it yourself. Try Pluto with everything unranked on a Loki. I would like to see a video of you saying Pluto is easy then. They gave us too much to soon in the way of gun and mods. The game design did not match players damage/skill level.

 

To everyone who thinks 64bit AI is stupid - Load the Void. Balance Tier 1 2 and 3 for your level.

 

Tier 1 - You are levelling around rank 15.

Tier 2 - You are max level

Tier 3 - You take your best weapons and mods.

 

Play solo not multiplayer. Multiplayer and Co-op are 2 different things. People say they want Co-op but really its multiplayer they want. Co-op is being on voice communication. Just you and a friend. 1 left 1 right. You watch ahead, he/she watches behind. You enter rooms first and decoy. He/she stands back taking out whatever is going to do damage to you. Shouting for damage on a certain target that needs to be culled quickly. The list would go on. Multiplayer is about numbers. Killing more than you. I am faster than you. Look what I can do. I want more BP's now and I need mod drops !

 

Multiplayer and Co-op are in Warframe. So is end game now (although I Do Not agree we should be forced into pay to play for end game) and the AI only works if you don't WTFPWN it with your over powered multiplayer weapons and friends. Solo void 3 is level 60-70. Multiplayer void 3 is upto 93. This is wrong. Multiplayer should be 240-280 but how many of you could handle the AI at that level without overpowered setups and only standing on a cryo and never having to move. 

 

Each room is different within the void. Enemies come in different packs. Some do high damage but can be killed quickly. Some are tank like but are not as threatening unless you ignore them and let them gather numbers or dig in a position you need to advance to quickly. You need to see it for yourself and then post. Try the Warframe experience as I play it. I think Warframe can be as ground breaking as Doom was for 16bit. This is 64bit gaming and the potential is beyond speaking about it. You have to see it for yourself.

 

I would like to say the frost lanes at the end of the void are genius as well. Annoying in multiplayer for many. In solo they take on a different light. If you want to advance you have to kill at range or use the bullet time effect in reverse. It is not easy but headshotting multiple enemies at range is a lot easier when everything slows down to a snails pace and you get just enough time to cull the room before you are off the frost lane.

 

This is what really got me though. At the end of void 3 I had no ammo. No revives. 3 enemies left. 1 dps and 2 tank commanders. I could not risk running across the frost lane. They do far to much damage and you cant kill them fast enough before they get you. I took cover to block the accurate sniper and just shot at the commanders. 1 came on the left lane and 1 came on the right lane hunting me down. I could only go backwards and escape or stand and fight until the death. Now I was using the frost lane as another advantage. Now they were slowed. My dps was x2 higher to theirs and I could dodge their slow firing bullets.

 

Enemies were not just taking cover. They were playing with me. They sent out 1-2 weakers mobs to force me out. If I came out all guns blazing they then all came out and tore me to pieces. I had to think and move quickly using all 3 weapons I had. I had to use my ranged weapon when pinned in. My pistols for killing quickly while moving. Then the Glaive to hit enemies from behind cover. If this isn't good AI and gameplay then I give up and don't know what to say anymore.

 

I have a new video coming soon (I make gameplay videos of new items) It will show how the effects we ignore in multiplayer come into effect in Solo and Co-op gameplay. Ill post it when its done.

[DanPaul7]

stacey69, on 29 May 2013 - 5:08 PM, said:

Sorry but I do not agree about the AI. The problem is the game was not balanced pre patch 8. The balance is now only in the new missions unless you balance it yourself. Try Pluto with everything unranked on a Loki. I would like to see a video of you saying Pluto is easy then. They gave us too much to soon in the way of gun and mods. The game design did not match players damage/skill level.

To everyone who thinks 64bit AI is stupid - Load the Void. Balance Tier 1 2 and 3 for your level.

Tier 1 - You are levelling around rank 15.

Tier 2 - You are max level

Tier 3 - You take your best weapons and mods.

Play solo not multiplayer. Multiplayer and Co-op are 2 different things. People say they want Co-op but really its multiplayer they want. Co-op is being on voice communication. Just you and a friend. 1 left 1 right. You watch ahead, he/she watches behind. You enter rooms first and decoy. He/she stands back taking out whatever is going to do damage to you. Shouting for damage on a certain target that needs to be culled quickly. The list would go on. Multiplayer is about numbers. Killing more than you. I am faster than you. Look what I can do. I want more BP's now and I need mod drops !

Multiplayer and Co-op are in Warframe. So is end game now (although I Do Not agree we should be forced into pay to play for end game) and the AI only works if you don't WTFPWN it with your over powered multiplayer weapons and friends. Solo void 3 is level 60-70. Multiplayer void 3 is upto 93. This is wrong. Multiplayer should be 240-280 but how many of you could handle the AI at that level without overpowered setups and only standing on a cryo and never having to move.

Each room is different within the void. Enemies come in different packs. Some do high damage but can be killed quickly. Some are tank like but are not as threatening unless you ignore them and let them gather numbers or dig in a position you need to advance to quickly. You need to see it for yourself and then post. Try the Warframe experience as I play it. I think Warframe can be as ground breaking as Doom was for 16bit. This is 64bit gaming and the potential is beyond speaking about it. You have to see it for yourself.

I would like to say the frost lanes at the end of the void are genius as well. Annoying in multiplayer for many. In solo they take on a different light. If you want to advance you have to kill at range or use the bullet time effect in reverse. It is not easy but headshotting multiple enemies at range is a lot easier when everything slows down to a snails pace and you get just enough time to cull the room before you are off the frost lane.

This is what really got me though. At the end of void 3 I had no ammo. No revives. 3 enemies left. 1 dps and 2 tank commanders. I could not risk running across the frost lane. They do far to much damage and you cant kill them fast enough before they get you. I took cover to block the accurate sniper and just shot at the commanders. 1 came on the left lane and 1 came on the right lane hunting me down. I could only go backwards and escape or stand and fight until the death. Now I was using the frost lane as another advantage. Now they were slowed. My dps was x2 higher to theirs and I could dodge their slow firing bullets.

Enemies were not just taking cover. They were playing with me. They sent out 1-2 weakers mobs to force me out. If I came out all guns blazing they then all came out and tore me to pieces. I had to think and move quickly using all 3 weapons I had. I had to use my ranged weapon when pinned in. My pistols for killing quickly while moving. Then the Glaive to hit enemies from behind cover. If this isn't good AI and gameplay then I give up and don't know what to say anymore.

I have a new video coming soon (I make gameplay videos of new items) It will show how the effects we ignore in multiplayer come into effect in Solo and Co-op gameplay. Ill post it when its done.

Sorry didn't read all of this, pretty sure your trying to say the game can be hard if you dont use all your best stuff. Seriously had enough of hearing this... What's the point of having things available to us if we don't bother to use it all? Might as well just not play if we have everything we need when we start the damn game for the first time...

Also I have no idea what the hell your talking about saying people are confused between co-op and multiplayer. Nobody is confused, the clue is in the name (Hint MULTI-Player).

Edited May 30, 2013 by DanPaul7