Einsig_SV
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Posts posted by Einsig_SV
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The Syam's signature heavy attack beam is still, after months and months since Duviri launched, borderline non-functional in most tiles. The beam completely fails to logically follow terrain in a comprehensible way so often I am surprised when it doesn't mess up . It literally does not work against enemies point blank with you if it detects terrain it thinks it needs to jump over. The beam will fly straight up out of the map and hit nothing so many times when approaching completely invisible terrain issues. It entirely ignores when enemies are directly in its path and tries to leap over imaginary gaps to reach higher level terrain where nothing is.
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I have taken up an interest in testing the mechanics and obscure interactions of thrown melee weapons, and have come to the conclusion that they are inconsistent and perplexing. They aren't bad as a weapon category so to speak, they just don't work with some mods in an easily readable way.
The main problem is that melee throws do not actually count as heavy attacks as far as modding logic is concerned. When you throw a glaive, it gets no benefit from nor does it consume any of your combo meter. The only interaction with combo is from Blood Rush, Gladiator set or Weeping Wounds, the same as with any other melee attack. You also gain and maintain combo from thrown melee hits. Heavy attack mods do not do anything for your melee throw damage. They might benefit windup on heavy attack throws, but they very clearly don't do anything for gun+glaive charged throws. The sidearm mode throw is seemingly only affected by attack speed.
Now here's the part where it does get a little frustrating. The actual heavy attack of thrown melee is the explosion. When you detonate your glaive, that consumes your combo meter, benefits from heavy attack mods and gets combo damage. However, the explosion seems to have near zero base crit chance and gets basically nothing out of Blood Rush or Sacrificial Steel. You also can't seem to buff the base crit with Harrow or Arcane Avenger. I've tried detonating it over a test enemy's head with Covenant and Avenger active at once and seen white numbers almost every hit. I have tested this on both Glaive Prime and Orvius and both of them seemingly never crit on detonation. The same goes for the Orvius' special single target Bastille. The ticks preceding the explosion all crit, but the blast itself doesn't.
However, Weeping Wounds works just fine for glaive explosions. As a side note, Dispatch Overdrive doesn't work on any component of melee throws at all. Why? Just why?
What I've come to conclude from all this is that heavy attack builds are of little use on thrown melee. The overall power of your throw benefits much more from building like every other melee weapon, plus a Smite mod due to how slash focused the better ones are. The explosion can do huge damage on Glaive Prime once you have 12x combo due to the guaranteed slash proc, and it still gets the benefit of Weeping Wounds, but it really doesn't even matter. Glaive Prime headshots with a full upfront damage build and a non-primed Smite mod will one shot level 150+ heavy grineer with zero combo built up anyway. Unless you want to do endurance runs you don't need to care.
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I feel like the charge time is now so short that it contributes nothing to the "feel" of the weapon. If the charge time were back to a few years ago and the damage of the Ogris were massively increased, it would certainly have that distinct charging weapon flavor, but right now it doesn't. It's functionally semi-auto already.
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Aside from the 33% nerf to its damage, the stuff that happened to Ogris in the previous patch was good. I mean, more AOE makes it easier to kill yourself, which is always a big oof, but that's a matter of personal opinion I guess. Reverting it entirely seems really strange and random. Maybe DE weren't happy with the mechanical design or something, who knows, but I just hope that if something further is done it results in a weapon that is more fun rather than nerfing the weapon for no reason.
But on to some discussion and a bit of a guide, which I think can direct more attention to how the Ogris currently works, what it can and can't do, and maybe prompt some thought into how its design might be improved.
The Ogris is one of those weapons which it exists in a very strange limbo of all its stats being wrong for most good builds. It's kind of a thought experiment that XandyPants would engage in. How do you maximize a weapon when the normal methods don't work?
It is a very high base damage weapon, but has extremely low crit and can't use Hunter Munitions. It has very high status, but it shoots way too slow for corrosive builds. It can very easily kill you, and it reacts poorly to Heavy Caliber, so just pumping up the raw base damage that way is a very bad idea. With very limited ammo, a charge based firing mechanism, and long reload time, fire rate status memes are a no-go.
So I think the Ogris can only do gas builds quite well, disregarding interactions with specific warframes like Garuda, Harrow, etc. Those shore up every single weapon to the point that your weapon can almost not matter. We're just talking about what a weapon can do on its own merits with little to no extra help.
Gas builds are sometimes odd for how they can be really effective on weapons that otherwise don't scale strongly with normal builds. This is, again, taking a note from Xandy especially in regards to that video he did on the Prisma Tetra. Ogris also has no crit viability, and it can't use firerate either (at least since its charge time was buffed so much to the point that it's a wasted slot) so it has an even more open build than that. Ogris can fit primed Bane mods since its slots are so open, which will be triple applied for gas procs. It's an AOE weapon with no base physical damage, meaning its weighting for gas can be extremely favorable and it can multiproc several enemies simultaneously. With how high the base damage of the Ogris is, its gas procs can be rather strong and it can carry itself up to at least Sortie level enemies quite handily, and is pretty strong for a few rounds of High Risk Index just on its own.
So the basic rules for a gas build apply. After your base damage and multishot, Thermite Rounds and Malignant Force plus Infected Clip. After that you have two slots free to do what you would like. Faction mods are of course a great way to get more damage for the slot, and the last one is purely up to you. If you have a ridiculous Ogris riven then use it, if not, almost anything else for utility or quality of life will work, including Nightwatch Napalm to keep enemies in place. That has the added benefit of controlling how far enemies are from you, thus practically reducing the risk of shooting yourself. Firestorm is worth considering if you're willing to take the increased risk of blowing yourself up. Maybe Primed Fast Hands.
If you are looking for an Ogris riven, I would recommend any of the following in order of most to least importance: toxin, multishot, raw damage, status chance, status duration. Faction damage is also an option, but with how rivens are I would discourage you from trying to roll for it and it would take up a slot that could make your Ogris more versatile. Still, I would personally never bring a gas build against Infested because Toxic Ancients completely negate them. So, you only need to worry about Corpus and Grineer. I would even say reload speed is a fine stat to get as long as your toxin and damage stats are there.
Now, as for how this is kind of relevant to the Ogris' limitations, it kind of explains itself in a way if you understand the thought process of maximizing most weapons. if a weapon is really strong for crit and status and has decent proc rate, it is able to use all of the multipliers that generally good builds use, but it also makes the build so tight that specialized mods for utility get shoved out.
If the Ogris were changed so that it could build for crit, this openness for its build would disappear since now you automatically put Point Strike and Vital Sense in no matter what. The question is, do you consider this worth giving up?
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56 minutes ago, shoopypit said:
Oh my bad, thought it was vaulted. Why vault boltor prime and not burston? Strange
Fang, Braton, Burston, Orthos, Paris and Bronco Prime were the first primed weapons introduced with the Orokin Void in Update 9, and were never part of any Prime Access. Boltor Prime gets vaulted because it's part of Rhino Prime Access.
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13 minutes ago, shoopypit said:
It's a vaulted weapon anyway. Not like it's super easy for new players to get a hold of, unless they pay others for it.
I'm also confused about the change in crit stats. The crit damage isn't high enough to make up for just an eighteen percent chance of critting. With point strike at least one or two bullets will crit, but that multiplier isn't good enough to warrant it. But that status chance is a real nice boost. It'll be fun to test out after the buff
Burston Prime is not vaulted and unless DE changes its current policy, it never will be vaulted. It's part of a set of primes that are permanently available.
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Doubling World on Fire's damage at the cost of its range will not help Ember at high levels (I'm talking level 80 to 100). It's not enough damage. The damage would have to be much, much more than that for this to help. At this level there are many enemies that can just one-shot Ember through full health and shields or instantly obliterate her energy pool through Quick Thinking.
Cutting World on Fire's range in half over time just makes it harder for Ember to survive because she has less crowd control as a result. This directly cripples Firequake as a build.
Ember needs to have something to improve her defense as she loses range on World on Fire. I have a couple of ideas.
First, rather than just removing range from World on Fire, you condense the damage into a smaller space around Ember and leave the crowd control at its base range. What this means is that explosions closer to Ember ramp up in damage and increase in frequency, while explosions farther from Ember do less damage over time but retain their status chance and keep knocking things down with Firequake. At max ramp up, World on Fire has doubled damage and hits twice as many times a second at close range, while it does negligible or no damage at long ranges. This is effectively what you did to Volt, in a sense.
Second, Ember builds up a fire shield as World on Fire ramps up that converts damage dealt (before armor) into a pool of damage reduction. Basically, bring back Overheat. Please. It makes no sense anymore for Ember to not have Overheat, or some other mechanic that replaces the function of Overheat.
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Another infuriating thing pointed out to me by some more dedicated Volt players is that the 4-second guaranteed stun they "added" this update was not actually new. That was always there. Discharge has a 4-second cooldown, which it was compensated for by having a minimum 4-second stun. They aren't even telling the truth about that being something they just put it in.
Effectively they changed nothing about Discharge this week except to make its potential stun duration even worse by increasing its DPS.
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Increasing the DPS of Discharge only made it so that you hit the HP cap even faster, nerfing the potential stun duration overall.
I don't understand why Volt's 4 needs these arbitrary restrictions and mechanics. Please, remove the health cap and give Discharge a base guaranteed stun duration that can be scaled up with mods and make the range partly scale with duration. Perhaps starting with an instant effect range scaled by Ability Range that then expands based on Ability Duration, kind of like Polarize. Discharge needs more consistency with its stun duration and to not be hamstrung but this strange cap anymore. Do you think Discharge does too much damage? That's ridiculous. Other frames have nuke powers that do vastly more potential damage than this.
Referencing another poster's points about Discharge. Discharge hits the damage cap faster the more enemies are within arc lightning range of each other. Because of the damage cap, the chain lightning doesn't even increase your damage at all, it just reduces your stun duration, so discharging on a lot of enemies close together makes DIscharge worse.
The damage cap must go.
Also, I don't like that Electric Shield is still consuming energy in a manner that punishes Volt for using his speed like he's supposed to. Energy over time was not really a problem, it's energy determined by the distance traveled that sucks for Volt. A given energy per second cost is manageable, but consuming more energy the faster you run is horrible for a frame that should move fast.
On that note, please reduce or outright remove the movement speed penalty for carrying a shield.
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Since Panthera is already a slashing weapon with a kind of average crit chance, feeling the effect of Hunter Munitions on it can be less than obvious at first. Tactical Potato did put it on the Convectrix though, which has similar slash weighting and crit stats. The improvement according to him was pretty significant.
I can tell you that the mod functions on all types of continuous beam weapons, and Panthera's secondary fire is actually just a beam with a funny animation. There is no reason it shouldn't work unless it's bugged.
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How long has it been since DE broke continuous weapons as a category? Three years? I no longer remember, to be honest.
Every few months DE has put out more continuous weapons that players immediately abandon once they get their mastery points because they aren't worth using. You can trace a consistent string of negative feedback on continuous weapons going to the very beginning of their current "functionality" and the complaints are always the same. Almost every beam weapon since the change years ago has been dead on arrival.
They have abysmal status proc rates, are grossly ammo inefficient, have crippling range limitations and fluctuating damage that rotates between large and small ticks. No matter how much you push the status chance per second of a continuous weapon they cannot effectively defeat armor. There is a hard cap on the number of procs that can occur at a given time.
The few beam weapons that aren't awful are ones that have an area of effect, like Atomos, Amprex, and Ignis. These weapons evade one of the core issues of continuous weapons, awful ammo economy, by hitting multiple targets (and not killing the user). As of the release of Hunter Munitions, the category has regained some life for the few that have enough crit chance to make use of it. However, even combining Harrow with Hunter Munitions can't carry many of the beam weapons beyond mediocre, and anything other than a beam weapon would perform vastly better in the same setup. These small bright spots don't negate the real problem.
The mechanics of how continuous weapons work are broken on a fundamental level. Changing and buffing the raw paper stats won't cure this, only cover up the symptoms.
Please DE. Do something. We've been waiting and begging you to fix this more than long enough. At least say you're going to do something.
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We have an Exilus mod that increases Ability Strength and one that increases Ability Range. Another makes you switch weapons faster, something directly pertaining to weapons. Saying something can't be an Exilus mod because it adds to an offensive stat or benefits weapons is totally not a valid argument.
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Those jiggling things with light beams coming out the top are not the cores. They are a little energy restoring pickup you get after every kill.
The cores float in the air and have a particle effect around them. They are not a guaranteed drop.
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This is a video I made showing the problem.
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How exactly is nerfing Hydroid by cutting his 3 and 4 ranges by 75% making him better?
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The charge times are way, way too long. Even with natural talent the charge times feel like they take an eternity and the result of all that waiting having to hold down my power keys (which takes away finger I need to MOVE) is not worth all of the frustrating wasted time.
His 1 also has no charge animation, just a vaguely visisble shimmering effect on the ground that's often barely noticable.
Moving in Undertow is TOO SLOW. Being able to Tital Surge doesn't help, and is too clunky. You can't get yourself into a correct position most of the time.
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Two things.
The daily tribute system seems to be in a very not okay state right now. There is now nearly two years of logins separating a new player from things like the Zenith and Primed Shred. This feels super excessive, especially because there is no form of leap forward bonuses or catchup days or anything of that sort to help get progress.
Also, there was never any counting of days logged in before the new tribute system was put in place. As an example, I have been with this game since the month it went into Open Beta with Update 7. I have, most of it recorded on Steam but some was not, somewhere around 1800 to 2000 hours in this game.
But because I decided I needed to step away due to severe burnout when Second Dream launched, I am not even at 100 days logged in on the new system. How is this fair?
Second, Universal Vacuum. It seems like you guys are missing the point a lot of us are making about univac. We don't want it to be attached to companions, period. It should be attached to Warframes, passively, as a toggle with options for what you do and don't want picked up, and how often you want things to be picked up. I understand the argument from some players that they don't want vacuum wasting their energy orb pickups by using up an entire 25 energy orb on 1 energy because of channeled abilities, or an entire ammo pickup to get 1 bullet, but I would counter this by asking you to make vacuum less dumb so that it doesn't waste pickups all the time.
Please, disconnect vacuum from pets and mods and equip items entirely, so that we can choose what companions we want and not feel like we are making our quality of life worse just because we took a cat, or make me want to kill myself just so I can revive my dead sentinel.
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The problem is not that shotguns are overpowered. It's that rifles are the worst weapon type in the game by a long shot. The power tier goes rifles<pistols=shotguns<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<melee.
The only weapon type in this game that is truly overpowered is melee. Even the worst melee weapons in the game are still okay weapons by virtue of how melee works.
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With my testing, Glaive Prime has potential for a lot of damage with the new gun+melee charged throw mechanic. With detonated throws it will slash proc everything in its blast radius, and the explosion will normally headshot everything. If you slot status duration you can get bleeds that last a long time (13 seconds with rank 10 Lasting Sting) and do a lot of total damage.
Obviously every melee is broken with stealth though. Two stealth bleeds kill level 130 bombards if you have over 280% melee damage (spoiled strike + steel charge + pressure point). Ash's passive causes the bleeds to overkill anything of any reasonable level you could expect to see as a normal player
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In my opinion, the problem with thrown melee is a problem with self damage across the entire game. The amount of self-damage our weapons do to us is ludicrous, many many times the effective HP of our frames. There are no frames other than Rhino, Wukong, Chroma, and Inaros that may possibly not oneshot themselves with a normal build on every self-damage weapon we have right now. The self-damage is bonkers, absolutely ridiculous, and DE has ignored the horrible state of self damage for years.
They even nerfed the Tonkor, an example of DE knowing why something is being used, but not getting why we're using it in a broader context. Before the Tonkor nerf, it was either "use Tonkor and have fun with an explosive weapon" or "use anything else and kill yourself every time you fire". There was no middle ground between those extremes. If the self damage of explosives in this game was anything close to reasonable, there would have been other things we could have used besides Tonkor.
But anyway, here's something happening to me with thrown weapons specifically. Today I found that my Glaive Prime was doing practically no direct damage to me even if I hit myself with a charged throw (double damage of normal throws). It strips off my shields and gives me a bleed proc but it never actually hurts me through direct damage. The bleed doesn't even kill me, even if I'm Ash Prime and have Lasting Sting on the glaive. The bleed lasts 16 seconds with my loadout too.
I don't use any elemental mods, I rely on slash procs, so just base damage mods and power throw+quick return.
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On entering an Invasion survival as Loki with Furis and Orvius equipped, I was unable to use anything but my spin attack if I switched to melee-only. I was unable to throw the Orvius. If I attempted to throw while mid-air, it would perform the charge-up animation and then abort before it finished and threw. This happened for two missions in a row with the same loadout. I then switched to Mesa for the Invasion defense and throwing in melee-only worked correctly.
I don't know if I was a client or a host during this.
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Just now, AshusAzan said:
Day 100+, still waiting for PET VACCUM!
Inherent vacuum on warframes, then the vacuum mod can just go die in a fire.
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Something is wrong with Smite. With 175% power strength against level 32 grineer in an invasion exterminate, the orbs were doing 18 damage per orb. This is ridiculously low damage.
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I honestly don't like the slide blind. It feels really clunky, and very annoying with how it tops my movement. Keep the blind, but remove the animation and let us copter normally while releasing a blinding flash. You can do that, right?
Eclipse Feedback Megathread
in Announcements
Posted
I prefer the idea of making the ability generate its own light source that is the only determining factor of whether you get either boost. Tap and Hold are probably the preference for most people, but the thematic of using light seems to fit with Mirage more. If we can control the radius of the buff area created by the light source with range then it's probably fine.
Perhaps we can have the behavior of the field change depending on the Tap or Hold. If we do one, the field makes light, and standing inside it gives us the full light buff, but leaving it gives us the partial shadow buff. If we do the opposite input, it creates a dark field that gives us the full shadow buff, and leaving gives us a partial light buff.