pumaferd
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Posts posted by pumaferd
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1 minute ago, Misgenesis said:
This here is the average Draco player to me.
Yeah, I kind of think he may be joking and poking fun at it.
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1 minute ago, SYL3NZR said:
how many rounds is that? regardless thats absolute GARBAGE considering what draco is: powerfarming
anything below 1100 kills per rounds is worthless crap and not mentionworthy, best rounds ive seen is 1600 almost
"wrecking draco" pfft, next im seeing a guy who makes 5 kills a minute with lato and is "absolutely destroying xXx"
I agree that's it's way less than what's capable on Draco. Purpose built draco squads can get an enormous amount of affinity there, but I don't think either Kutiekat or I are the people that powerfarm draco (what some may call the draco exploiters). WIth all four towers capped and randoms, that's more than 99% of the warframe playerbase can do. I'd love to see 1100 per round with all 100% to 0% enemy captured if you've got a screen.
I wouldn't call it garbage at all, though, because I'm sure she enjoyed herself tremendously, and no one is going to be able to do much more than that in the same scenario. With a squad of box mounted warframes and a 100% to 99% victory per round, of course you'll get far more kills. You spent considerably longer per round and are maximizing enemies and it'll be subjectively mind-numbing.
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15 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:
Not this S#&$ again.
Also current Saryn can do Draco as fast as RJ.
And more enjoyably, IMO. Also, whatever happened to run and gun? With a fast playstyle, you can do quite a lot with just weapons.
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8 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:
You're.... you're joking right? "Dynamic" "requiring lots of movement and timing". You mean loading into a mission, pressing 2, and walking behind everything at a casual pace pressing your melee button and occasionally hiding behind a corner to press 2 again?
Seriously. Loki stealth exploit is no better than draco in the laz- erm... "efficiency" factor. The only thing that makes draco worse is the toxicity and elitism that it breeds on the side.
Here's my personal suggestion for DE. Make farming focus impossible. It's an end game system that's meant to take a long time to level up and you should know better by now- DE- that your players carry a mentality that makes it physically impossible for them to resist exhausting themselves over something pointless by grinding something they'd get anyways by playing their normal missions; for no reason other than because they see a bar that isn't filled.
I can agree with that in the way of "to each his own", which is why I ask (not necessarily to you) why nerf stealth to the ground for those that prefer solo. I find loki stealth more enjoyable than Draco, and I'd have to if it's much slower than Draco runs. As for focus, it's not that big a deal to me. People may assume that's what I'm after, but since focus has come out, I've made no concerted effort to get it until this weekend with some tries on Draco (yes Draco!). I only have a level on two branches of naramon -- that's it!
I enjoy stealth kills, lol. Why nerf it?
7 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:Why the Draco hate? I really enjoy playing Draco with random people... There's something fun/hard/stupid thing happend... From low level players dying the whole time, to people making like no damage at all with unranked weapons. The only downside is when you get a team with an Excal and a Trinity who wants to play Draco "properly"... That's boring to me. But aside of that, Draco it's really fun... If you want to play.
At the end, the solution is to buff the solo farming, or make more options to focus farming. EX; Spy missions Bonus if undetected, Exterminate bonus to Focus if under X mins, Defense missions Focus bonus to xxx enemies killed, etc...
If you lower the affinity cost, people just going to exploit the thing even more, and later rage for another thing.I dislike Draco in some regards, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start telling DE to nerf it to the ground. People enjoy what they enjoy and I respect that.
These are some constructive suggestions for focus, and I definitely think DE should consider these and other suggestions out there. However, for me, this issue does not revolve around focus.
4 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:Ok lets see.
I ran about 7 or 8 spy missions in about 45 minutes and then finished off levelling it in a void survival with mates.
I might just be old school here, but in my mind it should take longer than 20 minutes to max a weapon, regardless of how.
Additionally I myself was unknowingly abusing that mechanic awhile back, running one sabotage mission to complete my quota for the Inaros quest.
The issue that Itake with it beyond the thematic one is that you lose the trade off. Spy missions give good chunks of exp pretty easily for solo players, while endless moded give you masses of enemies and experience at the cost of getting harder as they progress.
The ability to run endless spy missions breaks the balance of experience gain, and thus needed fixing, and they did so in a manner which doesn't break how the mission is intended to work, or nerf game mechanics.
the end result of the changes is that you lose out on exp per minute, but gain more rewards per minute when optimally farming spy or other missions.
Your original mention was 2 hours, so that's what I used. Change it to 45 minutes and it's still more tedious, but I'll take your points into consideration:
If it needs to take longer than 20 minutes, that's your right to have that opinion -- some major changes will have to be made to achieve disabling power leveling throughout the game while keeping it enjoyable for many. There are many people that are not able to do that type of spy to max weapons. It's not as easy as being a leech on Draco. Also, adding the term "old school" brings no additional merit to the viewpoint. Unless you can demonstrate objectively why a weapon should take longer than 20 minutes to max (assuming that's a constant value which of course its not and varies by player skill level), it's weighted the same as any other non-substantiated opinion.
That's fine that you take issue with the spy mission theme. Can you please respond to my point about how this fails to fully address the nerf which applies to more than just spy?
The end result is indeed that you lose out on exp per minute, but you also lose out on long kill streaks, using stealth as a game mechanic for long term missions that, believe or not, people can enjoy. Yours is not the only opinion on what is fun.
Also, you gain nothing. You were already able to do that before. I consider farming spy to be far, far more boring that doing a single mission -- I get less rewards, but I get more enjoyment. Can you understand that?
What balance is being broken? Endless spy is less effective than other options available to squads. What balance was restored with this nerf? Can also please address my point that this nerf has no impact on how you play the game and only impacts other solo players?
I really don't see a point in responding to you again, because you've just repeated the same things ad nauseam without substantiating them. You're welcome to your opinion, and I will defend your right to have one, but please don't claim it as the one true answer unless you can substantiate it.
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4 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:
Like I said, I used spy to rank up my Rapier, and tend to avoid crap like Draco after powerfarming became widespread.
The reason I don't disagree with the nerf is that thematically, spymissions should be about getting into the vault, not ignoring them for 12 hours whilst killing everything from stealth.
I'd rather run spies than crap like Draco for exp, but in the case of abusing spawn mechanics to boost your gains, it is a bit exploity
Well I guess we'll have to disagree because I don't see how this response addresses the points I've brought up. I personally do not want to do 20 spy missions to level a weapon. I can say that doing one mission for 20 minutes vs doing countless missions for 2 hours repeating the same thing is objectively more tedious, even if during the 20 minutes all I am doing is killing enemies in the same manner.
What I also dislike about these sorts of responses is your reasoning: "spy missions should be about getting into the vault". So for an opinion on how something should be in your opinion you would nerf something for everyone else in solo mode that has no impact on how you play the game (you can do the same thing you did before now), but does impact how other players play the game solo. That's not even mentioning your reasoning fails to address that this affects all mission types that were nerfed, not just spy.
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2 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:
I ran spies to rank up my Rapier after coming back, even without those cheese tactics, I got it to 30 in a couple of hours
I don't disagree on the changes, but I also am not a huge fan of spamming one mission with aoe skills for cheap kills.
That's exactly what I mean by the definition of tedium. Just how many Spy runs did you have to do to get it to 30 in a couple hours? It takes ~20 minutes to max a weapon with long kill streaks... And yes, there are faster ways, but 20 minutes to have some fun running long stealth streaks is perfectly fine by me as opposed to the annoyance on Draco.
@Naruchico, yeah it needs changes, but that's besides the point for me. I honestly wouldn't care if they disabled focus on stealth kills -- I enjoy stealth kills for stealth kills. If I want focus there are other options that are better IMO.
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25 minutes ago, NinthAria said:
So doing the same mission over and over is a grind, but staying in the same room for an extended period of time murdering respawns ad infinitum is...not a grind?
Don't get me wrong, I can completely understand that it might not feel like a grind, but...really, the only thing that's changed here is that at some point you have to actually progress the mission now.
I don't recall saying I stay in the same room. I run through a large portion of the level. I progress the mission when I'm ready to leave. The difference is fairly substantial in that you can keep long streaks. In the old way, you can leave groups of alerted enemies and go find more elsewhere. If you alert enemies with the new way, tough turkeys, you're probably going to lose your streak as you scramble to find any more enemies on the desolate map.
So yeah, that's not fun at all losing streaks and basically having no option to keep them going. The maps are desolate now. The only purpose to Spy is to grind out keys and vaults.
The old way is exponentially higher in affinity alone. 12k from one stealth vault on Lex, that's ~4 lancers with 5x multiplier or one gunner/napalm and one of any other enemy. Yes, there is a difference. You cannot have 100 stealth kill streaks. It doesn't have to be Spy -- it's stealth kills. Doing Spy just made more sense because you get the extra 36k affinity and a key.
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20 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:
Why not just rush spy missions instead?
Just equip Loki, a melee weapon you can one shot with from stealth and go from there
You just ignore 90% of enemies, killing only to maintain exp bonus, and rush the hell out of the mission.
Easy exp and spy drops, and completely unnerfed
For me, that isn't the point -- the point is enjoyability solo stealth killing for long streaks and finishing a weapon in a mission -- again not the fastest, but far more preferable than Draco. The option you suggested was available before and is boring and a grind. You have to do quite a lot of spy missions to max things, and it is the definition of tedium to me. That may be different for you, but the whole point here is that they've nerfed stealth killing as a method to both enjoy the game and level stuff.
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I'm not sure what ashrah is saying.
6 minutes ago, (XB1)A Frikn Grizzly said:Yes, I'm sure that was all solely because of Draco.
I never saw her say it was all due to Draco, but these things have been mentioned in devstreams (i.e. 55 about Mag and the subsequent nerf).
As to the nerf, I really don't understand it, as I've mentioned in another thread. I can understand addressing an exploit some are using on a map, but I see this as a poor solution to a problem. They have addressed this by killing the enjoyable solo stealth missions.
Those methods (Ivara, Loki) are slower, but still an alternative for people who just want to level/forma gear and not deal with the common Draco players and the drama found therein. You can max a full loadout with ease in 4 rounds with the right squad on Draco, and max your focus just as fast, so what are they targeting here? Doing long stealth spy missions (not exploiting spawns on certain Deception maps) take much longer and forget about doing a full loadout.
I guess I'll go play Draco...
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Yup, I'm very disappointed as some of you are as well. I haven't used Deception for focus farming, but I have done quite a lot of spy missions for leveling/forma'ing because I cannot stand playing on Draco. Once again, DE has sent the clear message they don't want people doing solo stuff, and, either intentionally or inadvertently, pushing people to Draco.
The mild difficulty increase on Draco has made it more enjoyable for focus farming (and if you're focus farming you don't care if people are leeching off you, you just don't revive them if they keep going down), but I will miss Spy stealth. No idea why they seem to have a vendetta against solo players.
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No one should be required to make a private lobby just to enjoy the game. If they can't ever go public, then there's something wrong with the game.
That's it, that's all. It's not a matter of controlling other players or having the perfect run. The game mechanics are flawed and it's removing fun for some players because it's making it easier for other players to just spam one ability and rush through the content, in a self-center, rude and inconsiderate manner.
First off, I want to make it clear that your response is to my response to a specific claim by DeMonkey in which I questioned his reasoning behind his statement. Your view has different information which would need to be responded to on its own. His view implied that there should never be a circumstance that results in a player not having fun in a public game. Your statement implies that if they can never go public, then there's a problem.
The game mechanics are flawed and it's removing fun for some players because it's making it easier for other players to just spam one ability and rush through the content, in a self-center, rude and inconsiderate manner.
I'd agree with you absolutely if 100% of the time all players cannot play public. But, since I am a player, and since I play public and the majority of the time I can enjoy myself playing the game, this cannot be true.
Let's break this down:
- "The game mechanics are flawed" -- assertion without proof
- "it's removing fun for some players" -- granted, but this is happening to all players at various times for various reasons. If you have a magical solution to solve this, I'd suggest you start a game company.
- "because it's making it easier for other players to just spam one ability and rush through the content, in a self-center[ed], rude, and inconsiderate manner" -- speculative. You don't know what is bothering each individual person, and you don't know that they aren't the ones being inconsiderate or rude either. Also, these situations are not homogeneous even for individual players -- there may be, and likely are, different circumstances each time. You know what bothers you, and you know how you feel about it. You may also know what other people have said if they've gone into that much detail about this or any issue (can you compare how many and how many warframe players there are?). What proof do you have that the players that are doing what you are alleging are doing it for the reasons you have stated? As mentioned in this thread, at least some people thought they were doing people a favor to get through what they perceive as a grind more quickly. Will you accuse them of being selfish and inconsiderate for that? Be careful about seeing your perception as reality, as that can be a very dangerous thing.
Now I'll make a claim: until you have proven that anything is against the intention of DE, it is not a game flaw you are reporting, it is a game change you are requesting -- a game change which impacts every other player, possibly in all circumstances, not just the ones that offend you personally depending on what it is. Leave it to DE to classify a game change request as a game flaw please.
And I disagree that if my definition of fun infringes on yours, I'm the one that has to go to private lobbies and not the person with specialized builds.
You have a specific set up for specific situations - good on you. But that doesn't mean that since I don't play that way, I get pushed out of public play because it's inconvenient for you to be a respectful teammate.
I agree that you should not have to go private either. Just as he should not lose out, neither should you. Do you have any recommendations to make sure neither of you have to play private and both of you can enjoy how you prefer to play in public?
No ones mad that you put time and effort into making a decent build - other players are mad that you're coming into the public matches and ruining their fun by playing the way you want to play and not being considerate about how they want to play.If you're capable of face rolling content, why are you bothering with public matches? Honestly the only reason I can see is some kind of epeen or just massive disrespect for others for enjoyment.
Looks like your recommendation for rawr1254 is to stay out of public matches or play by your sanctioned playstyle for Ember... That's unfortunate. I thought we were getting somewhere, but your response has such an astonishingly high level of hypocrisy in the same sentence that I'm concerned you may not even realize it.
He can play in public matches because he can play in public matches. Your speculation here could have been stated with a little more tact and with more openendedness especially since some of the Ember players have already given you their intentions. Remember, you have no idea what other players are thinking, feeling, and intending unless they've said so, so it is just speculation. I haven't seen any Ember respond and say that's why they do it. I've seen them say it's to speedrun or to reduce grind for everyone, which actually seems like they are trying to help other players. This seems like a slightly obscured insult towards Ember players with contradictory reasons provided by the actual players already present in the thread.
Also, as a tip: don't forget, this game has chat: you can say you feel it's rude and inconsiderate. Start a dialog and try to resolve that issue. Amazingly, not all people are trolls.
You're being rude and inconsiderate of your team and you're refusing to acknowledge that it might be a problem for the people you're forcing your play style on.
Your playstyle is to go into public matches, flip the bird to anyone else on the team and do your own thing.So what evidence are you providing that shows that is both what he is doing and what his intention is? Or did you mean to say that "I see your playstyle as offensive, as if you are flipping the bird to the team and doing whatever you like." See how big a difference that is? Your perspective, vs his perspective, vs reality.
The game itself is flawed and needs to be improved - heavens yes. But now you're using that to justify being one of the most complained about player types.We agree! In my opinion, there are things that could be changed/added/reworked in this game, some that specifically address some of the topics in this thread. But I can almost guarantee you that at least some people will view any of those changes as major detriments and will hurt their enjoyment of the game. I won't claim I have the "right" answers or that my suggestions are somehow more valid than anyone elses; I certainly won't try to badger them into conformance with statements like the one above.
How you play - is fun to you. I'm not telling you to play any differently. What I am saying is that how you play is causing problems for other players.
Again, it looks like you are trying to shame him into conforming, if not directly telling him how to play, by judging him and all other players that play in a playstyle you deem inconsiderate and rude. Tell me, how do you know your playstyle has never been a problem for other players? How do you know other players don't think your playstyle is inconsiderate and rude? If they do, would you change your playstyle?
I would change your last sentence here to:
What I am saying is that how everyone plays causes problems for other players at some point.
Now that is a statement I can agree with and doesn't single out types of players that don't agree with you.
To rawr, and every other Ember player who is just playing the game as its made and to their playstyle with no intent to offend or annoy other players (and possibly with the complete opposite intention), you have just as much right to play it how you want as anyone else does. Don't let someone tell you you are being rude and inconsiderate when you aren't intending any of that. How in the world are you supposed to know how every single person in every single match wants you to play so that you don't appear rude to them, and what gives them the right to dictate that to you? The answer is you can't, and they have no right to do that.
If people are passing judgement on you or trying to demean you (which can be veiled, so be astute), it's a good indication that their opinion probably isn't worth your time or concern. Do standup for your desired gameplay and make sure your voice is heard, as it's usually the quiet people that are more willing to conform to not be a burden to others that get the short end of the stick.
I'm fully aware that there are viewpoints I am vehemently against, but as long as they are not imposing a self-righteous, judgemental viewpoint, I support everyone's right to voice their opinion without having to worry about being judged and badgered. Rational, critical analysis is constructive, but just trying to shame people until they conform to some viewpoint is unacceptable.
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Shouldn't have to create private groups in order to enjoy the game. Ever. A game should not force you to avoid public matches for the sake of enjoyment, that shows that the game is flawed.
I'd like to know what your suggestions are to resolve issues where one player or group of players doesn't like [insert anything from the game here], but others do. If your solution to this problem is that "DE can tweak the ability to be somewhat more interactive without it being considered a nerf", wouldn't that presuppose that your viewpoints, and therefore your sense of enjoyment, are the "correct" ones? What do you say to the person who disagrees with you on this or finds enjoyment out of something you believe should be nerfed or that you do not enjoy? Who gets something they enjoyed removed and who gets something they hated removed?
Be careful with infinites and all-inclusives. Your statement above means that you are against there ever being a need for a private group to enjoy the game -- no exceptions. That implies that at any time when playing, all publics must be enjoyable to every player -- it implies that if anything anyone does is unenjoyable to any player, that the thing should be stopped/removed/controlled.
What if someone cannot get enjoyment without dictating what everyone else does for their enjoyment (there are control freaks in this game)? What if someone demands no one use the Tonkor for their enjoyment and its your favorite weapon? What if someone demands all players use Mag for their enjoyment? Only melee? Where do you draw the line and what is the rational explanation for why it is the correct place to draw the line? Can you please expand and explain how your statement can remain valid while accounting for these scenarios?
We've seen the vocal minority destroy things which others enjoy. There are players in this community that want to turn this game into Call of Warframe; should DE accommodate them and completely change the game so they can enjoy it?
Beyond my response to you, it does seem possible there is a connection between these outburts and the end-of-game stats -- this is not a fact, merely an observation. I would hypothesize that these players are incapable of teamplay in general due to the demanding criteria which makes the game enjoyable to them; that these players' egos demand they are the best by all metrics, with kills being a key one for them to grab onto. Again, this is an hypothesis, but if true would be a poor reason to drive changes as it is the polar opposite to a community driven game.
In my opinion, this all boils down to a simple thing: inconsiderate, self-centered thinking. If people get beyond themselves and realize, "Hey, these people don't have the same likes as me, maybe I should start a group that enjoy the same playstyle I do instead of demanding everyone conform to the style I play, even when I'm not playing with them by imposing a change on all players."
This is the reality people often refuse to face: people have mutally exclusive likes and dislikes. You cannot solve this for everyone (although games can be programmed to be flexible unlike reality -- i.e. enable coptering, disable coptering; no right or wrong, merely how a group chooses to play). The larger a community, the greater liklihood of discontentment, because no one set of rules will make everyone happy.
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This happened to me as well, is reproducible in the relay, and works fine when you use other weapons.
This seems to be the same as https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506425-mastery-rank-17-test-bugged
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Yup, this happened to me too. I was checking to see if it had been reported before creating a new bug report. It works fine with other melee weapons and is reproducible in the relay. If you hack away at it enough you'll eventually get a hit.
This seems the same as https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/504700-master-level-16-to-17-meele-kill-bubbles
This newest hotfix pushes Draco farm even more.
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by pumaferd
Alright, so let's say they made it so only one life support pod spawned per 10 minutes and the life support enemy drops occured at 1/10th their current rate. Would that mean they have nerfed survival? Of course not, right? You can still play survival missions... right?
So enemies were spawning right in front of you and they fixed that? What are you talking about? You clearly haven't bothered to read my posts to understand my position and views before critiquing them. The closest thing I can think of that you describe is the Uranus exploit. It's the only time I've seen what you've described. Yeah they fixed those and should continue to fix exploits like that with enemies just spawning in front you in plain sight. Actually seeing an enemy spawn in is somewhat rare.
You say "the ONLY THING that changed is that enemies can no longer continuously spawn RIGHT in front of you as you kill them". I'm going to hold you to that statement now. So if that's all they've changed then I suppose you'd be fine with enemies spawning hmm, 100m away? In other rooms out of sight? Two rooms away out of sight? I'd give you that compromise, but I think I exposed your exaggerations. I would happily accept the same spawn rates, but limiting it to two rooms away.
I respect your desired method of playing, and as I've mentioned before a compromise could be reached, but completely nerfing the previous stealth playstyle which I've described is annoying, and not just to me.
I think you need to tone down the exaggerations for your post to be taken seriously. Everyone here plays the game and no one is falling for "enemies continuously spawning RIGHT in front of you as you kill them" -- that's absurd; if that was happening, then I'm all for fixing it (hopefully you were screencapping or recording and reporting these as bugs). Maybe that's what was going on in the Deception exploit, I never tried it or saw it.
Also, regarding "random enemies that spawned from some tiny little room a few meters behind me": enemies stop spawning when you are near the spawn location. They had probably already spawned in when you returned to the larger room that contains the smaller deadend spawning rooms and were sauntering around in there, but you were not being mindful enough of it. I'm not saying this is an absolute. In the hundreds, possibly thousands of spy missions I've done, I've seen these things happen extremely rarely. It'd be more likely to see Hate drop than see that happen.
Again, if everything you say is true and that's what your only problems are, I would actually agree with you. The problem is enemies don't spawn within 100 meters now; enemies don't spawn within 1000 meters anymore. They spawn once and done. That to me is more broken than enemies spawning back in a room that's a couple rooms/cooridors away (or one room/cooridor for the very large rooms).
I'd suggest you read the thread and understand my position and the positions of others before inaccurately portraiting my views and critiquing those false views and then grossly exaggerate the situation. I do not want enemies spawning right in front of me... I want them spawning in the level again.