Spindle99
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Posts posted by Spindle99
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Or... You can just do the Nightmare raid :l
You're missing the bigger picture, as was outlined many times.
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Welp this has motivated me to make sure not to purchase any more platinum until the starchart update comes out and I can either confirm DE are just a bunch of hollow eyeed coked up jackals trying to fleece their playerbase for some quick cash or just a developer not properly expliaing their vision for their game.
(Which given that the 20 node strchart update will almost certainly make farming that much harder and they are now trying to force people to get platinum for things which every player needs is looking increasingly likey)
I'd advise everyone to boycott platinum purchases until DE actually clarify this. If it does end up as a cash grab then even if they reduce the nodes down to 5 there's still going to be allot of ghost towns
This has been my approach, I put my kub in status and haven't logged on since they announced it. Certainly haven't spent any more money, it's a minor protest since they make vast amounts of millions a year anyway but still.
I'm expecting the worst to be frank, I've seen how things work in this situation before on other games and to be honest I'm seeing it play out exactly the same here now.
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The selling point of this new star chart was "too much choice is no choice at all", if they truely do believe that will they soon remove 90% of weapons from this game too?
If not why is removal of choice ok in one way but not another?
As an aside one decrease of choice has the potential to increase profits the other would not.
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The new star chart is not coming in U17. There's a quote (more of a screenshot from some other website) of DERebecca's floating around here somewhere about how no code has been written for the new starchart system and that the reason they even mentioned it was to get people talking on the forums. Which is why it's good that people are being so vocal about it.
I don't believe this at all but everyone is free to believe what they want.
Discussing and Fear mongering are two different things.
Discuss cons AND pros, yes- making wild speculations about never playing a good tileset and resource nerfs, Chine-DE, they just want us to spend plat, is not helpful. Not only is it not helpful, it could potentially turn off new players when they see a forum full of popular threads about wild speculation and spread lies.
There could be just as much POSITIVE discussion about how the new star chart will help as there is negative, but people tend to focus on negative and made-up rumors that dont even make any sense.
Why should DE not release a feature because of fear mongers? They should hold back on something JUST because someone will make a thread saying "LOOK DE IS TRYING TO SCAM US, because of this BS i was saying before" even if the logic behind the connection is not even sound.
-eh, anyway. Forums will be forums. Its still somewhat annoying though. I cant relate to people that just enjoy drama. Especially when the backlash could mean LESS info for us, in order to avoid there forums looking like cess pools of misinformation and panic trolls.
Fear of massive changes happens when there is little communication between player and developer, there are "fear mongering" threads because people are worried due to what they have been told being pretty horrible and very little information overall being told at all. People always say that DE communicates so much with their players, I've been here about 4-5 months now and I honestly haven't seen it (at least no more than any other game I've played). This new star chart is a prime example of them not communicating properly actually.
A dev workshop thread was promised, once that is created and players know what the developers actually want to add then they will douse the fire themselves. If they don't then it will just continue to burn, if they censor it here then it will rage on other forums.
End of the day, people aren't "fear mongering" they like the game and they are scared something they enjoy is going to be ruined and people need to keep in mind this has happened many many times in the past on other games so don't pretend they can do no wrong and it could never happen. If you want so stand up for DE in the lack of information that's fine, why do you want to silence people that aren't as blindly trusting as you though?
As I said DE are the masters of the situation here, lack of information is the problem. If they were to take away from this situation "tell players less and less in the future" then that fixes nothing, it just delays the outrage for patch day instead of a slow burn as we have now.
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The new blueprint was a horribly bad decision to add now because it does show more than I think they planned to show about how the game is going to go in update 17, it's obvious that the star map and this were designed to work hand in hand.
The sad thing is I'm not sure they can/want to deviate from their plans if they wanted to now, I think it's coming whether we like it or not and now it's just a PR battle to get us to accept it. Either that or the spoonful of sugar tactic (add a load of new/fun content to try overshadow the bad starchart changes), however they manage this I think we are locked on now anyway.
I think the few of us that are complaining about this should probably slow down on doing so now, we could very well face a forum ban if we continue.
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Those are not baseless. Those are real things that actually happened.
Speculation as to motive is baseless.
We can make up our own motives for actions when a new patch adds what they just added, I'm not posting a theory I have you can make up your own. I have mine.
You even said yourself the timing is unfortunate, why? does that make you think something?
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What is so important about keeping the ghost towns?
Why argue over nonsense at all though?
The argument is about 20 nodes, heck even 50 would be a tight squeeze given different level cap nodes and every mission type. Let's not sidetrack it too much by arguing if any pruning at all is necessary, almost everyone would agree it is and have no issue with that.
You have to try to think of a motive for going from too much to too little within a really short amount of time. When a developer does a 180 from more is better to less is better you kinda have to question the motive.
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Think of it like this:
Rare resources like Neurodes are needed at basically every level of the game. Even entry level weapons need them. If DE wanted all levels of players to get these blueprints (and spend that sweet, sweet cash) they would have made the resource cost much lower so that entry and mid level players would look at them and say "hmm, maybe I should spend money on that". What you're saying is that these changes (starchart 3.0, resource BPs) exist to make money, essentially to coerce players into dropping plat on these blueprints. Star chart changes affect all players equally, so the unspoken assumption there is that this moneymaking tactic targets all players equally. However, these build costs are quite obviously not targeted at new players.
Honestly though, they should have held off on this release for the time being. They couldn't have picked a worse time to ship something like this.
The problem is new players might not know how hard these basic resources are to farm, so it's a trap if you will for new players that can't farm that level of resources and it's an obvious sign of intent to make getting rare resources harder for vets.
I mean why would they make these so expensive (plat and resources) unless the new rngjesus (dev term) starchart is going to cripple farming right?
Last part is a big yes, after the complaints I would of thought they would of removed it because is shows a lot more than I think they intended.
I don't have a problem with the 100 plat price; I've spent a lot more than 100 plat on Neural Sensors and Forma. Look at it this way: You're paying upfront right now for 10 Neural Sensors. By the time you build 10 Neural Sensors, you've recovered your plat and broken even. This is, over the long term, a very good investment for people who can afford the initial capital expenditure and don't want to deal with Jupiter Farming and how inconsistent it can be.
Am I the only person who sees this?
As for the BP costing plat, DE has to make money. If DE doesn't make money, there is no Warframe for us to play.
I think you need to look at financial reports my friend, DE and Warframe in particular are making huge amounts of money.
You don't need to worry about that at all.
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I'd say this is pretty badly timed when the startchart rework is on peoples minds. These two concepts don't exactly look the best stood next to each other.
Agreed, this pretty much affirms the fears many of us had.
Very few would buy these blue prints, with the new rngjesus map that will change.
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The numbers are way off for them to serve that purpose.
It looks like they're targeted at veteran types who would rather die than run Alad V one more time. If they were meant to serve in the place of rare resource drops they wouldn't cost as much.
We will see, this in combination with that ol 20 node star chart where you can't do the bosses when you want anymore and dark sector farming will not be anywhere near as easy makes me think bad things.
Right now I can farm any resource whenever I want and with a very high chance of success get what I want in 10-20 mins. That would not be the case with a 20 node star chart with things on rotations, if that change happened this 300 plat BP would be a whole lot more "worth it".
Maybe I've been playing these games too long and I'm jaded, maybe I'm seeing it exactly like it is.
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Ok this is quite worrying, 300 plat and all the materials is expensive but that's not what worries me.
Who would buy these? It takes 10-15 minutes to easily get any 1+ of these from farming right? Here is the thing that worries me, these being added along with the upcoming 20 node star chart means no more bosses when we want to do them and no more dark sector farming (or at least not upon demand).
So to people that say why buy this when I can just farm, well what if you can't farm them when you want so easily anymore?
Not a good sign to me.
So that 20 node star chart, adding it for more fun huh?
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Precisely my point.
Point I was making is there are players that will play a game long-term due to addictive personality issues, they will play it long beyond the point they would normally play a game and have seen everything. These kind of people are a static playerbase, losing these kinds of people would be a serious issue. There are also a lot of players that will play a game until they beat the content and see everything and then leave, these guys are harder to hold onto and require a constant stream of new content.
On WoW these guys buy an expansion, play it for 4-6 months and leave because "seen it", they aren't realy leaving because they never intended to stay long-term anyway. They repeat this every a new expansion launches and no matter what Blizzard add they will never play it longer than that. They will just go play something new and exciting and come back when WoW has new content.
Which is why the constant media stories about "3 million drop in WoW sub numbers!" stories are nonsense, there is no drop. It's just those transient players that will always leave after they exhaust a new expansions content (outside of silly addictive grinds).
This is exactly a Destiny thread all over because OP and some people in this thread assume Witcher 3 is just a console exclusive when you could literally pre-order the game in Steam... Right now. All the arguments I gathered is literally only focusing on consoles while completely excluding PC players. Me and many others always play Warframe, find a new game, play that new game, eventually come back to Warframe later on.
The job of a developer of a game like Warframe is to give the player a reason to come back after playing Witcher 3, not stopping them playing it (because that is impossible).
Once I finish Witcher 3 I'll have an itch to play something to fill my time again, since I do have an addictive personality I need something that feeds into that. Normally that will be an MMORPG, if the new content on Warframe is good enough then it might be Warframe. If the new content isn't good enough or the negatives (20 node star chart? are bad enough then that will kill my desire to play and I'll find something else to play) Since at this point my addiction will not be as strong to keep playing it no matter what.
Pretty much any game that you play long-term that works off skinner box tactics keep players out of addiciton, it's the job of the dev to keep that addiction going (i'm not saying this is a bad thing, that's how most online games work and the players like it that way).
So a big new game launch can be a game breaker, because it termporarily kills the addiction. Which is why they put a of effort to rehook players after something like this happens.
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On another thought, are there really that few people playing WF?
If there really are those thousands and thousands of active players that they boasted with, then why are there any ghost towns at all?
They have around 20k players per day on steam, which is the biggest basic platform. They have more than enough players.
The problem is that there is no need to do most of the nodes, that's a failing of the game design not really a low player issue.
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Fans come and go. I'm no longer a huge fan of the Star Wars franchise like I used to be, but it's still making movies and merch. And even for it's 3 million subscriber loss WoW's still doing just fine.
The 3 million player loss for WoW is not a loss at all, it's the same players that buy the expansion play it for 6 months and quit. Not everyone plays an MMO long-term.
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Everyone remember when Destiny first came out and everyone was like "oh DE's fan base is gonna die"...
Yeah.
The bulk of players has always been on PC for Warframe, that was never going to happen.
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From what I would gather, they have been saving updates just for this reason.
There have been no updates for about 2 weeks now, however my guess is they are just saving em up to try put as big an update as they can to counter the big guys releasing stuff next week.
Also people writing off Destiny, the game hasn't been out that long and it's ps4 only. They still have millions of players, they average 3.1m players per day (I'm not sure how many players warframe average per day but steam accounts for about 20k players on average per day). Warframe is honestly lucky that Bungie decided not to launch it onto PC.
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Dev workshop thread when?
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If they had said "we want to cut the amount of nodes back to 100 or 150" there would of been little to no outrage.
The outrage came because they went crazy and said 20 nodes, a number so incredibly low that it would force rotations and add another layer of rng
I hasten to add that this is also coming with the destruction of the void too, which adds yet more rng to doing those.
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Most players need a reason to be doing something while having fun.
I can't think many would stay if they removed all the drops.
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McDonald's head office, the boardroom.
Chairma : gentlemen, ladies, I have called this emergency meeting because I have noticed something seriously wrong with our menu.
Puzzled looks and muttering all round.
Vice chairman: in what way sir? It seems fairly diverse, with most bases covered, something for everyone?
Chairman: that's the problem, it's too diverse.
More puzzled looks
Vice chairman: too diverse sir?
Chairman: yes I'm worried that when a new first time customer walks into a store they wlll be overwhelmed.
Vice chairman: well research shows that people like choice and our wide selection is generly regarded as an advantage over our competitors. I suppose we could get the art guys to tweak the menus a bit and train the staff to point newcomers in the right direction.
Chairman: you are not thinking drasticly enough.
Vice chairman: I'm not?
Chairman: not by a longshot, I propose reducing the menu somewhat, to avoid clutter.
Vice chairman: well I suppose we could prune a little, what do you suggest?
Chairman: well currently we have around 50 sandwiches, I want that reduced to 5.
All: 5!?!?!?
Chairman: yes 5. Research shows that sales mostly consist of the top 5 sandwiches anyway.
Vice chairman: but what about choice? Sure it's understandable that our long term customers know what they want and go straight to their favourites but even so, to reduce the menu to just these top 5....
Chairman: whoa whoa whoa, who said the top 5?
Vice chairman: but you said...
Chairman: I said 5, not top 5. No my plan is to rotate the selection.
All: rotate?!?!?!
Chairman: yes, our sandwich designers have come up with too many great ideas, I'm not going to discard them just becomes no one actually buys them.
Stunned silence.
Vice chairman: so what happens if I fancy say a Big Mac one day and it's not on rotation?
Chairman: tough, you have a veggie burger instead.
Vice chairman: and if I don't like veggie burgers?
Chairman: again, tough, you should like them, they're good for you.
Vice chairman. I not sure that's the attitude we should take to our customers?
Chairman. How about we throw them a bone, for people who are fussy and won't just eat what we tell them, we have some sort of create a sandwich system so for ten quid we make what you want if you are prepared to wait an extra 20 minutes?
Vice chairman: but that's much more inconvenient and expensive them our current system! People are not going to like this.
Chairman: oh I am fully aware that the customers won't like it, I'm still going to do it. Right, shall we vote?
Vice chairman: can I please just propose another quick vote first?
Chairnan: of course.
Vice chairman: all those who have lost faith in the chair please raise your hands.
All raise hands
:)
Awesome job, love it.
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Complaining about this is really, really petty.
OP is pretty much asking for a totally banal experience where nobody can ever do anything that might annoy you even a tiny lil bit. If someone is constantly trying to annoy you over and over for the whole match then report them, but a few fun shots is a big deal? Really?
This game allows Loki to troll you with switcheroo (forgot name D:)
It allows Vauban to bounce bomb people.
It allows Nova to gate people that don't want it.
It allows limbo to banish people.
All of that is at your disposal and you make a big deal about a rocket jump gun?
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At this point I think everything that could be said on this has been.
Now I'm putting my hopes into the developer workshop thread that was promised.
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To state that players will continue to play no matter what a developer does is wrong, and honestly silly.
This is not the case, players are not animals, they are not hopelessly addicted. If you sour the milk they will stop drinking it.
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the only problem I had with paid mods was that it would water down the mods being made.
If a mod builder can make money but steam only stocks certain types of mods that means those kinds of mods steam won't stock won't be made anymore.
No more adult mods, no more gorey mods etc.
Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]
in General Discussion
Posted
The game going pay to win is an extreme worry, there are many shades below p2w that would ruin the game for most of the games players.
When a player says they can do whatever they want as long as it's not p2w you are giving a very bad message to the developers.