Versa
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Posts posted by Versa
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24 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:
they can if its an unintended bug
This exact statement is used to shut people down and as a cop out to justify practically anything. In this case it is a feature that people have made use of for close to four years now and being the sole saving grace of the line of weapons for most of that time, so no it is not exactly unintended or it could have been addressed long before this when it was even more necessary against nullifiers, being the sole item that could deal with them efficiently in their older state. This is both entirely unnecessary and makes the weapon not useful for some of the things people inherently take is as being useful for as thats what they have used to for before.
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6 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:
a thrown melee weapon is a projectile. nullifiers are supposed to block projectiles. its a fix
It has been the case that the entire throwing melee series has been able to to so from practically the beginning, and considering that was what its primary use case was for quite a long time, other than self damage, its not really reasonable to just entirely change the an entire class of weapons to not be able to serve their known function. This change basically turns throwing melee from the best anti nully melee to one of the worst in most cases just above daggers. This is only going to make all the high range galatines, whips, and polearms even MORE useful than this already fairly underutilized weapons. You don't just entirely re-purpose an item to be the opposite of how it has been until now.
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1 minute ago, Xion said:
Didn't they do this shortly after they released the Kulstar and was instantly killing nullifiers like 2 years ago?
I have seen it properly passing into and allowing me to detonate inside the bubble until just after this recent update with all the weapon and warframe changes. It required you to have punchthrough, from either the dual wield or the mod, but it had still worked until a bit over a week ago when I was last using it against them.
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Exactly as the title says, throwing melee are now immediately deflected or detonated on the outside of Nullifier bubbles instead of being able to actually be used to deal with the nullifier as has been the case for the last several YEARS. Im not certain if this is a bug or a "fix" but it needs to be returned back. This has been a large feature of the entire line of weapons for as long as i can remember. I Have explicitly confirmed it with both punchthrough and without on the glaive and the Kestrel and the effect is the same. I seriously hope this isnt actually intended to stay like this and turn the weapons from being a good way of handling nullifiers, to being practically useless against them because of their short reach and only one throw at a time.
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I originally had just replaced my first response on the megathread with this but decided that I should place it by itself to get a more direct conversation about these changes I am proposing and perhaps answer questions people may have easier rather than having it threaded in and out of hundreds of other comments there
These are my thoughts of the changes after a bit more testing of Zephyr to confirm with a more expansive range of stats, I have come to the same overall conclusion as I had the first time, these changes do not bring enough impact and fix her existing problems while taking away much of the useful, controllable and fun choices in her mobility. Some may look at the new tailwind and see differently, but for me I see something that isnt truly mobility, its just a fast strait line. The mobility Zephyr had before the changes allowed you to effect all aspects of your position with more control. Namely the ability to easily choose how you move with tailwind. I will elaborate.
With the previous iteration of Tailwind, there were 2 components, the regular air dash that everyone knows the ability by, and the grounded vertical launch. Both effects were triggered instantly. No charge, no waiting until you release the key to activate, no locking you in place, just instant, reactive mobility. Mobility like this only works when it reacts as fast as you can to allow you to say, dodge or quickly move up to a higher floor or simply get off the ground while still aiming. The current tailwind has both the small delay from waiting to determine if you are holding, as well as the charge in the case of this new launch. Neither effect is good and will severely impact timing the effects or in the case of the charge, is actually anti-mobility by fixing you in place.
The new Tailwind has several changes, first is that the basic physics of the air dash are completely different and, in my opinion, worse for any build not very focused on duration. The effect is so much focused on duration, that it basically does nothing at base up to about 130% duration, where previously it could get distance at least slightly useful in larger maps. The problem here lies in how duration effects both airspeed and how long you keep dashing at that speed, so duration has an exponential effect on the ability. In many cases, that makes the two extremes of duration each fairly unusable in alot of circumstances. Overall, there are a few changes to this that could actually fix it. First, if it must stay as an animation locked dash that keeps you for the full duration of the speed, the acceleration curve needs leveled out a bit so that base speed and distance is actually usable. The high extreme needs a way to interrupt the animation so you can stop from getting pinned to walls or overshooting a target, allowing the animation to be interruptible in the middle would fix some of the concerns here. The current tailwind also has this obnoxious effect of both having some kind of air resistance after the cast that slows you down and immediately stopping you on contact with the ground after the cast. Both keep you from being able to preserve momentum to keep moving. The air resistance effect after casting the air dash part of tailwind needs to have some kind of override like the old doublejump superspeed or, better it could have no air resistance effect as using bullet jump mid air immediately resets your momentum to match the preset animation. The complete stop of all momentim on touching the ground also needs to go, Sliding after a tailwind to keep speed should be a thing. Repeated casts of tailwind should also allow building up speed and momentum so that you can do individual smaller casts for halls, and multiple casts for places like the plains.
Regardless, the animation locked dash is probably the worse of the two options. What I personally thing would work better and be more controllable is the following. Tailwind needs to be a very short animation that gives you an impulse that quickly accelerates you to a greater speed, has no inherent air resistance effect added, and resets bulletjump. Just one burst that brings you up to speed and flings you in that direction. Repeated casts need to be able to stack up more speed and momentum, perhaps with some amount of diminishing returns to prevent being uncontrollable, but still able to build to very high speed and controlling it with aimglide and casting the dash in different directions to basically fly and change directions. The extra bullet jump you are given allows you to reset your speed and be able to stop exactly where you want due to how the fixed animation of bulletjump instantly resets all your momentum. This ties both a very fast movement part, with the ability to have better control both when you need to go faster on larger rooms, and the ability to pick shorter distances to dash and then stop on command. Overall, this change gives Zephyr the most controllable and responsive mobility while also tying in all of the parkour features in to make the full use of her mobility.
In regards to the other portions of Tailwind, this is where most of the other complaints come from. The charge needs to change. What exactly needs to happen is that the old instant takeoff from the ground needs to be back. The old impulse physics that it had before work fine as they do not lock your animation in a substantial way. If, and only if you hold the key for tailwind while rising, and by this I mean that you have already started lifting off the ground from pressing in the key, then it will select to fix your motion at the top of the jump after detecting the key being held for about 1-1.5 seconds. This gives the choice to players for a quick jump that doesn't stop their motion if they don't want, or the floating turret feature that you added. THIS is actually a choice instead of what occurred in the actual changes in simply removing an already effective feature of the ability and adding two downsides to it.
The change to integrating divebomb is entirely fine, but perhaps it could have some adjustment option to change how sensitive it is to when you are looking down. It would be nice, but not required for the function of it.
In regards to Zephyrs other changes and improvements to be made, I have a few. First, the projectile speed of the new Airburst needs to be faster than bows, otherwise the ability just takes too long for any actual effect, and considering its ONLY use is CC, it needs to at least be quick and responsive like the rest of her kit needs to be. How fast exactly I cant say but It should be among the faster projectiles in the game probably at close to 75-100m/s as if you are 50m+ in the air, you need all your effects to trigger in less than a second or so or they will be entirely outclassed by most other effects in the game. Having the Airburst also cause the ragdoll crumple and pin them to the floor by having the ragdoll pressing all targets directly down instead of throwing around could also help with follow up. Overall, the ability needs some work as it has neither the impact, nor the speed to justify that energy cost or even its use in general.
The animation change to zephyrs Turbulence also needs reverted, it is just a slower animation that has about a 1-1.5 second delay before the effect is activated that WILL get you killed at higher levels. The original animation suited it and was less intrusive.
Tornadoes only need QoL changes. They need to move about 4x faster when ADSing at a point and one of the tornadoes needs to be guaranteed to spawn at the cursor even if there is no enemy there. Sometimes you need a tornado at your feet to get enemies that are airdropping on you in the plains and there is no existing enemy to spawn it on.
Overall I will sum up my hoped changes to Zephyr.
- Make the Airdash part of Tailwind as a short but powerful impulse animation that can build good speed, maintain all momentum outside of the animation, and resets bulletjump to use so you can stop exactly where you need.
- Return the instant grounded takeoff without the charge and make it so that holding while you rise acts as the option to lock you in place.
- Substantially increase the Airburst projectile speed to about 75m/s base.
- Revert the much slower, and what I find as a much less fitting animation for Turbulence that will get you killed.
- Make Tornadoes movement speed be about 3-4x faster and fix one spawn at your cursor every time to prepare a CC location in advance.
This is my proposal to fix this updates changes which have severely interrupted zephyrs previously very responsive kit by adding longer cast delays and a completely out of place charge function, as well as to fix some of the other areas she was lacking in and didn't get fixed.
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43 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:
Honestly... it sounds like you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
Tailwind now works BETTER than a Bullet Jump, making it more useful on open maps rather than a redundant ability that Bullet Jump replaces. It's beautiful on the Plains and Interception maps. Her Hover is the MOST REQUESTED FEATURE that she should have. It's well within her caricature being a WIND based warframe dominating the air. Being able to hover should be an Innate feature, and does NOT restrict mobility, just melee, or tailwind out of it... or just don't use it, it's an optional feature.Tailwind works better than bullet jump only when you build for extreme duration, she only has only has one kind of build now, full duration. At the same time, the new tailwind is also going to pin you to walls in most of the game far more than it used to as you could cancel the animation with divebomb before. Also, do people still not understand that tailwind and bulletjump could be used in tandem with how their different physics and animations interacted? It used to allow using that vertical takeoff the air dash and bullet jump all for different purposes and motions, now the charged vertical is effectively more a negative than anything, and the new tailwind has virtually zero effect at lower durations like 130%, where before the distance was at least workable.
As for the hover, this is COMPLETELY wrong, the new hover feature was already possible with old tailwind and using aimglide, and in that period, you had actual CONTROL over your motion in the air, the new charge is entirely unnecessary and the locking hover at the top actually slows you down in all ways. What happened here was that you lost all actual choice of how you control the character in the air. I have almost NEVER needed to just hover in place, instead i needed a quick vertical acceleration that moved me up to the higher location while still allowing me to choose if i want to stay up with aimglide or sliding to get some horizontal motion. Now i have a slow charge to go up and im jarringly stopped every time instead of having the option to keep moving off of momentum and aimglide. Noone but people who saw her kit and didnt even think about how to mix it with parkour 2.0 would even have thought that the hover was an even slightly good idea.
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3 hours ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:
Hm, good info for somebody who can't try these changes out yet, but still cares about this rework a lot.
Personally I would like them to go back to Tailwind roots, the times when you could use Double Jump momentum boost to give yourself a massive speedboost during Tailwind, and turn it into an intended mechanic, along with some extra mid-Tailwind options. So something like this:
Regular Tailwind cast goes somewhere around 15-20 meters. If you press Jump during the Tailwind animation, you significantly boost yourself forward to like 40-50 meters distance. If you need more distance you can transition it into Aim Glide, while preserving most of your momentum or just recast Tailwind. Pressing Crouch at any moment cancels Tailwind and stops your momentum. Pressing Melee attack during Tailwind transitions you into Dive Bomb (if you aim it downwards, then you can actually aim your Dive Bomb at an angle in like a 90 degree cone below you, otherwise it just goes straight down, like it used to). Also at any moment you can recast Tailwind to quickly change the direction.
"Hover mode" is removed, and instead Zephyr's passive gets an upgrade with more duration and less descending on Aim Glide, making you nearly hover with it, while also providing you with some better Aim Glide directional controls. Ground launch works as it used to (press once to launch), with the default height being around 12-15 meters, but you can charge it for 1-2 seconds to go higher.
This would give Zephyr much tighter controls and options for both closed and open tilesets, while also preserving most of old habits for Zephyr players. However if these changes get implemented, they probably should get rid of Tailwind distance getting scaled from Duration mods, since it will only make using it at enclosed tiles more problematic (which it already does) without providing that much benefits to it, since you could already boost yourself much farther.
What do you think?
Pretty much what I want now, I had already figured out how to do that tailwind impulse after the doublejump nerf. It involved the operator instead. The current tailwind though, locks your animation EVEN HARDER than before, so even that doesnt work now. the new tailwind just forces one kind of build, lots of duration. Her build diversity was killed in this update.
Otherwise, most of these suggestions where similar to what I was thinking about. I was considering having Tailwind as a very short animation that was more of an impulse that preserved all your momentum and could be boosted through either the ability itself or from an action like double jump. It would enable alot of speed and decent air control with aimglide while not preventing you from doing say, shooting mid cast. And if someone thinks that the preserved momentum is a problem, there is already a solution in the system, bulletjump immediately resets your momentum to match the preset animation of the action, so if you get stuck, bulletjump and your unstuck and moving in the direction you want. It also lets you cancel that momentum, mid flight, allowing you to precisely stop. This was ALREADY in the game. The new tailwind just isnt good at all compared to the old.
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5 hours ago, Hieracon said:
Cant speak for duration scalling but they are pretty much the same in regards to control as you just go straight with little to ability to steer Tail Wind during its duration. Also not sure what you mean by us having lost the ability to instantly take off. You can still fly off in the direction you need just by activating Tail Wind. If your refering to how you have to charge Tail Wind now then thats just for the hover part. If you wanna go straight up just aim up and activate Tail Wind.
The way duration interacts with both flightspeed and distance falls off extremely hard at lower duration in the range of 100-130% duration. I barely move with my current build with a duration of 123% and stats focused else where, namely range. This build literally no longer works to any effect because the mobility that was offered by Tailwind with it is now entirely gone. In the regular dash, i move less than a regular bullet jump, but it costs energy. I used to get respectable distance and now I dont. Its basically forces building extra duration as not doing so makes tailwind entirely useless. The ability at base has virtually no effect and thats not reasonable, an ability should at least work to a somewhat usable extent with default duration/range/etc and new Tailwind just doesnt.
In regards to the takeoff, the point was I used to be able to take off vertically instantly and WITHOUT looking up, I could still be aiming and trigger the takeoff to get a better vantage point and not be locked in place at the end. Now the only takeoff is that horrible charge that always locks you in place at the top, there is no more option to just get height instantly and hover around with aimglide. That entire charge thing is a direct NERF to Tailwind as everything that the new charge to hover does, we could already do with better control using parkour 2.0 things and the original Tailwind. And even before, if it was necessary to use the directional dash, I could just do a quick jump and cast and it would enable extreme control over how you move both vertically and horizontally. Now im forced to constantly look elsewhere to move instead of being able to aim, shoot, and use Tailwinds different motions all at the same time. My downtime has been doubled or more if I want to be moving.
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The older version of tailwind had a better ballance of distance and momentum to duration than this. With the current build you only get even usable distance above 150% duration and over 200% you start getting pinned to walls from momentum far too easily. Im not sure how the physics were changed but it is much more extreme than before where I could actually get respectable distance from ~130% duration, where now, I move only a few meters at best and have no momentum at all to keep going fast. The previous version also wasnt as likely to pin you to walls with high duration and could actually be canceled by divebomb to actually make it reliable and controllable in most of the game. Thats not even getting into how much worse the new charge "hover" is compared to the old takeoff.
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53 minutes ago, MrJxt said:
Tailwind:
All of the improvements are good.
-The hover is really only useful with self-damage weapons. The maximum charge time is too long and should be reduced to 1 second max or when she does the crouch animation.
-Divebomb does not cancel tailwind's cast animation. This is quite problematic if you're using a high duration build and travel much farther than desired with no way of stopping.
No, just no. NONE of the changes are good to tailwind. The hover entirely replaces the better, instant takeoff which you could already hover using aimglide and her passive. There shouldnt be any "charge" to hover in the first place. The actual physics behind tailwind also force you to build duration or you barely move a stones throw. This change has entirely removed any build diversity that doesnt include above 150% duration. In addition, when you are using that high duration you are now "expected" to use, you can easily get pinned to walls by the incredibly strong momentum that now is also only on high duration.
They basically botched the scaling so that lower durations have neither distance nor momentum to keep going but higher durations (most average zephyr builds) have too much of both to be usable anywhere but plains.
Before the changes, I could actually get decent distance with a build set between 123% and 133% duration to build my stats elsewhere. Now, I cant use that build at all because the low end scaling on duration make my build move only a few meters, hardly usable at all. The new physics are just completely unballanced. You either go nowhere in the regular dash, or you get pinned to walls outside of the plains(most of the game). Also you can no longer quickly bounce upwards with the ground takeoff to go over obstacles or change which platform you are on and such like before. Her 1 is no longer usable ANYWHERE without being objectively worse than before.
This change has actually removed most of zephyrs quick, reactive mobility to replace it with only duration builds and being a bit fast in a strait line with the hazzard of pinning you to walls in the majority of the games content.
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Just now, Caelward said:
I think I'd be happier with a compromise between old Tailwind and the current. If I could tap the button to launch into the air and then hold it to hover, it would probably feel much better to use. Maybe allow me a degree of aim-glide movement while I was there to remove the problem of being locked in place, but have it slowly drain energy as I float about. From there I can let go of the ability to drop, or tap it to tailwind again.
Just... I hate the charge, I really do.
What I had been hoping when I had seen the change was that tailwind would be EXACTLY the same as before, except it could transition to divebomb by looking down and the charge for the hover would be either while you were rising in a takeoff, or just anytime in mid air. I got neither, What I got was a tailwind dash that doesnt scale evenly with duration, making relatively low duration builds(low 100%-150% range) unusable for mobility, and with the most awful and sluggish takeoff and locking hover that NOONE wanted. I literally want nothing but all of the tailwind changes reverted so I can actually use my non-meta(as far as zephyrs meta could be concerned) 123% duration, 280% range build and not feel like im barely walking in mid air now.
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2 hours ago, Cryssoberyl said:
Skill #1, Tail Wind. The horizontal movement portion of this skill is as clunky as it ever was. You still cannot change direction, still cannot cancel it by rolling or jumping. It does travel faster and farther now for a given build, but that may or may not be desireable as you will find yourself cannoning into walls and obstacles and having to wait out the animation.
And there is one of the big problems with the reworked physics of the ability, you have 1 build choice, longer duration, if you run in the realm of 100-130% duration and try to focus stats elsewhere you are incredibly immobile as this new ability does not preserve momentum at all after the animation ends and you get close to the ground, in the end this does just that, it relegates zephyr to duration builds effectively killing all build diversity like my 123% duration, 280% range build. This build behaves like a ROCK, casting 1, especially in the air, barely moves me at all and it takes dozens of casts to move any respectable distance. In addition, the takeoff is hot garbage, the old takeoff paired with aimglide would let you get higher and stay there longer than this awful gimmick does with a full 3 SECOND charge, and it didnt lock you in place for doing so, allowing you to get height and still move horizontally.
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Another thing ive found is that zephyr seems to hard land much more easily now, like they changed how her passive affects her falling momentum, another thing that was made worse.
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Just now, TinFoilMkIV said:
I think you may have an issue with whatever keyboard/controller you're using, as I was just testing and you very much can do an instant grounded tailwind. If you hold the button it does the charge up version. Either you're holding it longer than intended on accident, or the input itself is getting stuck.
That said, the point about being able to gain altitude while keeping your aim is valid.
I dont think you get what im saying, it is no longer possible to do the takeoff without the charge mechanic, it will just do the regular tailwind dash where you are looking. I am speaking about how I used to be able to takeoff vertically while grounded without looking up. I have the ability bound to a mouse button so it is actually as responsive as it could possibly be and it is the case that they REMOVED the old takeoff to force the use of this charged effect to make it jump vertically. Using an instant simple click without any hold just does the regular air dash.
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6 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:
Also just in from a bit more testing. the "normal" tailwind does appear to be completely uninterruptible, however the charged version sort of is? You can fully cancel it with another tailwind, though you do not get the free version. You can also bullet jump and dodge during the charged launch, though their effects on movement seem greatly reduced, and will always end with Zephyr going into the locked hover. Bullet jumping during the hover does not lock any controls (that I've found yet), but does result in a bullet jump activating immediately when the hover ends.
This new tailwind is overall, much more clunky to use which was what i had feared the most. Its even more of a locked animation and the distance does not scale evenly with duration like before. This stupid "hover" is also both awkward and slow while actually reducing her previous mobility particularly when in rooms with several floors to transfer between. We could already hover without stopping and doing nothing. Its called aimglide and her float passive. You can hover while still being able to slide around a bit. Its more mobile than the new hover, has less downtime from slow casting, and was more mechanically integrated into the existing parkour system and her passive. All of these make the old tailwind better than the new frankly garbage rendition of tailwind.
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Just now, TinFoilMkIV said:
Okay I think I get what you're saying, and I did forget that old tailwind was always vertical while grounded. That did change. However, unless I'm misinterpreting how you were using it before, you can still do an instant tailwind as soon as you touch ground again as long as you don't accidentally press to long and start the charged version. You do have to now adjust the camera for your trajectory though.
No, I cannot do it in the slightest anymore as the instant takeoff was removed and what i was doing was akin to bouncing upwards with that takeoff and when i was about to land, instantly bouncing back up again. I would takeoff the instant I landed on the ground which is no longer possible as the regular takeoff without the long charge and locked hover no longer exists. Pressing tailwind the instant I hit the ground is now not useful at all. The entire point of doing this bouncing effect was to be constantly getting different vantage points WITHOUT looking where i needed to go, I would be bouncing while still aiming at enemies, reducing my downtime. Really great for snipers as you could get good LOS quickly on any target.
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14 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:
So you're saying the previous tailwind could cancel other landing animations and such? I certainly wasn't a Zephyr main before, so I don't assume to know all the tricks.
The hard landing animations are only at higher heights for zephyr due to the passive floatiness so no, it didnt cancel landing persay, it could just be mitigated through other means and then immediately followed up on. If i knew I was too high to not avoid a hard land, i would slide momentarilly into the landing and immediately release and use tailwind again, which registers that im on the ground again and uses the vertical takeoff. Not very many people know about these interactions due to how few people actually play her alot and practice and experiment with these kind of timing sensitive tricks.
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15 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:
This was not how it worked btw.
I used Zephyr extensively, and if you were landing in such a way (i.e. not sliding), that would cause you to do the landing animation, you could NOT use Tailwind out of it. You could only do it if you landed while sliding, or not falling from a height high enough to cause the animation to trigger.I have been using zephyr in that exact way for over 2 months now, as long is I wasnt at a height that would trigger the hard landing, i could and would use that b-hop like mechanic. If i was too high, i would slide into the ground and then quickly release the slide and takeoff, both have the same effect overall, near instant takeoff whenever I approached the ground. If I was fast enough, it was basically no more than tapping crouch to slide and then immediately releasing and taking off again.
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8 minutes ago, chofranc said:
Most of my comments other than a few more simple remarks have had my opinions on how to fix different parts of zephyr. I dont think any of them are just saying how she is worse, they say why she is bad, why she is now worse, and what I would do to change that.
Namely
- Revert all the tailwind changes for now, they are objectively less controllable and free of movement than the current build and only work in a slightly passable way with a high duration build effectively removing build diversity that isnt duration centric.
- Make the flight speed of Airburst at least bow speed and only detonate on impact, not after duration.
- Revert the unnecessarily slower cast animation of Turbulence.
- Make her tornadoes move about 3x faster toward ADS than the current snails pace.
And even on my takes for changing zephyr before, I have given ways that would make her better without making her absolutely awful to the people already using her.
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7 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:
- while grounded, tapping tailwind launches Zephyr in whatever direction the the camera is looking (same as before)
Actually, it used to have an instant takeoff when grounded that didnt lock you in a hover. It was actually the most underutilized and useful effects on her 1 before and now she has 3 second charge to get only a fraction of that. It used to be possible to use that takeoff the moment you touched the ground to bounce back up and stay in the air. Probably the most effective way I had found to use her in open rooms. So no its not the same, the better effect was taken away for this absolutely ineffective gimmick.
Also, this is now how the regular tailwind worked, they entirely redid the physics behind it and the way that duration affects distance and momenum is completely broken. building under 175% duration or so makes you go about 5m instead of the 25+ that it would before. The animation behind the tailwind fly is even more locked than before as you can no longer interrupt it with say, divebomb to stop where you want.
Every single part of new Tailwind is worse than the old one other than a bit more distance with extremely high duration. It just needs strait up reverted on this ability. Its supposed to be mobility but the old one had shorter casts, less animation locks and was more consistent with different durations instead of only working with very high duration.
Zephyr lost moblility and build diversity all at the same time and for what, a gimmicky hover and new physics to go with it, when that hover was already possible using the INSTANT takeoff and a mix of her passive and aimglide to keep that height from the takeoff.
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14 minutes ago, Caelward said:
See, We don't want her to handle all the content. We want her to be better at what she's supposed to do. We've been talking back and forth for years about the flaws in her abilities and how those abilities could be altered to properly fit her niche.
Instead we got an 'update' that fixes none of those issues, but did managed to introduce more. I can see how a hover might be interesting at first blush, but if I'm using Zephyr as I have been for literal years, then I am blasting around much faster than her new 2 could ever hope to be used for and the stop and charge to stop and hover is near infuriating. Her Tornado got nothing more than a gimmick to appease the players who still won't be using outside of a panic button. And they managed to ninja nerf turbulence and jetstream as well.
Ever since Zephyr was released, she's meant freedom to me.
I'm disapointed with what's been done.
The thing about the "hover" that was introduced is that we had that ability the entire time without any charge. Its called the instant takeoff and then aimglide paired with her passive let her hover while still having some ability to slide around making her both able to actually hover as well as still be moving. Now all we have is the most sluggish excuse of a strait line dash that completely locks you in worse than before. Switch TP is better than the current Tailwind which cannot be controlled when using enough duration to move a decent distance, and literally moves about 5m when using 100-130% duration.
You literally only have 1 choice of build now and that is full duration, dropping the already poor ranges of her abilities even further. I cant do any of the older things i could with tailwind at all. The new physics and mechanics are just that bad. I no longer have the choice to run my high range, lower duration(123-133%) build as her 1 literally does NOTHING with that duration.
In addition I used to do this kind of B-hopping effect with the takeoff where the frame i hit the ground i would hit 1 and bounce and that allowed me to be near impossible to hit even if turbulence turned off. It was the most fun and most free of movement I have ever been in this game. All of that practice, all of those very useful, fun, and effective tactics are now gone, replaced by a bunch of slow, fixed animations which are objectively worse than what she already had. I just want all of these changes returned to how she was as she was actually usable with more than one build and not completely unable to work in hallways.
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Im just hoping that for now, they revert the tailwind changes so that i can actually have any actual fun with Zephyr. ALL of the changes to it have basically ruined how i play and mod her as it locks so much of her mobility for me.
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I find that the majority of the changes are horrid for zephyr. particularly her 1 and how it feels to use.
Tailwinds distance and momentum scaling are completely ineffective. If you build lower duration like 100-130%, then you neither go far at all, nor have momentum to keep going, so its actually worse now as you get shoehorned to the full duration build. With higher durations, you start going further and over 200%, you can actually get decent distance, but the momentum pins you to walls, and the animations are even more fixed so you cant end early with divebomb like before. The new takeoff is an absolute ABOMINATION. The old one would be instantaneous and give you a good height which you could maintain and control with aimglide and her passive float. Now you need a 3 second charge to get LESS height, and be completely fixed in place instead of actually hovering at a relatively constant height and being able to move along the ground plane by sliding and such. All in all, you get an ability that forces you into the already mainstay duration focused build and your ability to get instantaneous height and actually make use of her aimglide and passive is now GONE. Zephyr is no longer controllably mobile, and to be even just fast in a strait line, you have no choice but to build duration which will end up hurting your already poor base range of ALL her abilities.
Overall, they made zephyr less controlable, less mobile other than in just the case of being fast in strait line with a max duration build, lost most of the actual airtime control, took away the instant takeoff, and made the entirety of her 1 clunky and only even decent with high duration.
This is not a case of "git gud," its a case of you must use ONE kind of build and play ONE kind of way, long duration and useless in short hallways without getting pinned to walls. Zephyr is objectively worse on the typical halls of the majority of the star chart. She is made to go duration, but is punished by the extremely harsh momenum scaling and animation lock which will pin you to walls constantly, and the new takeoff is both incredibly slow and cannot be used to bounce over obstacles while still aiming at targets.
ALL the changes made to tailwind need to be reverted as the old iteration actually had decent momentum and distance scaling. you could actually build for 100-130% duration and still move a decent distance, and at the same time you could also build for 200%+ duration and not get completely stuck to all walls by wonkey momentum that cant be canceled. Also the instant takeoff is just objectively better and allows more control and use of her passive than this new fixed "hover."
And these are nothing to say about the absolutely PITIFUL impact all the other changes to her have. The new 2 has basically no usability due to being absurdly slow and small base range. Turbulence got a change to the casting animation which makes it feel slower. Tornadoes I dare say are actually SLOWER to move around even when ADSing than they were when randomly moving to enemies. Overall this rework actually made zephyr WORSE for me and certainly less free in movement due to all the new charging, fixed animations and poor duration scaling on tailwind.
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Im currently of the opinion that the new iteration of tailwind is just worse than the old one. Distance and momentum scaling with duration make you either go nowhere and have no momentum at low duration while high duration throws you and will give you momentum that pins you to walls where the old one had usable momentum and distance on both ends of the duration scale. The new take off is just worse than the old, the "hover" is actually a downside and takes a full 3 seconds or so to charge to get the full height before locking you in place. Overall, these changes have actually made using her passive nearly impossible, and the long charges and animation locks make her as rigidly locked and uncontrollable as parkour 1.0. Im of the opinion that the tailwind changes should be just entirely reverted as they are objectively less mobile in almost every way than the old version.
The tornadoes also need to move to an ADS about 3x faster than now as they are practically stationary.
Throwing melee no longer can go through nullifier bubbles with or without punchthrough.
in Weapons
Posted · Edited by Kurayami_No_Yenshi
By this reasoning of immediately justifying any changes, does that mean that any change is also entirely above criticism? What I brought here was either to grab the attention to fix a feature that was unintentionally removed, or to also serve as my criticism to this being a negative change that I believe is bad for the item in question. Just as I am not immune to or above your criticism here in the forum, changes that I see and disagree with are also justifiable for me to criticize. I believe this is bad for this weapon and should be changed and all I can really do is present that, contesting for and hoping that it is changed to be able to do what it is expected to. The point being, nothing is above criticism.
Trying to devalue my argument by saying that "it was a fix so your point doesnt exist" is just ignoring the reason that I presented the view in the first place. It inherently makes the weapon less usable and more hazardous against a very large enemy that can now bounce it back and make it kill you instead, and that seems very much counter-intuitive to how it was before.