[In your honest opinion, do you think D.E is bringing back Primed chambers?]

Just wait for Umbral Chamber.

[Yet another Founder whining about something]

True but you shouldn't care what others say about you.

All the insults they throw at us just shows and says more about them than us anyway.

[Umbra Ex and Founder Ex Prime custom]

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

And then you realize that it's not only excalibur's issue and that every single frame who benefits a lot from said 3 stats (Valkyr, Rhino, Frost, Inaros, Nidus, Saryn, Ash, etc) will have the same struggle if you try to apply umbral mods on them, with the only difference being that it's unknown how many of them, or even IF any of them will get an umbra variant in the future.

Yes and the irony is Founders know that.

Hence, why we are saying it's power creep?

Also, Steve has said before there will be an Umbra line.

Considering it is good money potential for not much more work, there is no reason for DE to not do them.

Just a reskin of Prime version, existing specter A.I. and put in a new polarity, and maybe introduce more Umbral mods or leave it at the current 5.

Now, people just need to understand that everything that happens to Excal Prime now is gonna happen to their Prime frame when the Umbra version comes out.

Which is why some of them are supportive of the cosmetic swap issue because when the Umbra version of their Prime frame comes out, they too will want to have the cosmetic swap.

[Umbra Ex and Founder Ex Prime custom]

16 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

You're still omitting a single fact. Both are exactly the same and mods are what's making the difference. And even then, most of us can clear any mission with normal excalibur, which has exactly the same build restrictions as prime but with lower stats (less armor and smaller energy pool), so i'm pretty sure that there's no place to make actual use of that additional ehp or power strenght, making them pointless differences.

I think there is some misunderstanding.

Excal Prime never had a bigger energy pool than regular Excal.

It only had 25 more armor than regular Excal until this recent update.

 

Also, I omitted nothing.

Go to Warframe builder and go build a loadout on Excal Prime and Umbra to see for yourself.

Yes, those mods can be placed on Excal Prime (and other frames) but you can never ever build them the same way as Umbra without gimping yourself.

What do Excals need?

HP. Check.

Armor to further boost effective HP. Check.

Power Strength to boost skill 1, 3 and 4. Check.

All 3 mods are mandatory unless you are aiming for some kind of niche build for non-regular play.

The closest Excal Prime can get to Umbra is to not put an Exilus Mod and forma every single mod slot other than 3 to put the Umbral mods.

Even then, that is 1 Power Drift (15% power strength), Coaction Drift or whatever Exilus Mod.

That is the closest possible because that uses up all mod capacity.

Though I will admit at the time of my earlier post, I forgot the possibility of removing the Exilus Mod.

Doesn't change the fact that Umbra is still better though.

[Umbra Ex and Founder Ex Prime custom]

7 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Moot point since with enough forma you can still put maxed umbra mods on prime to achieve the same stats

False unless they release the umbra polarity for formaing.

3X16 mod capacity is not possible to be put on for any frame except for Umbra.

The maxed possible for Excal Prime is 2X16 when all other slots are formaed.

Even then, at least 1 stat is almost half of umbra and the other 2 stat is almost a quarter less than umbra.

So, Umbra is factually better than Excal Prime unless someone only uses 1 umbral mod on Umbra. Then, it is just better because of Tau resist which is insignificant.

If someone puts 2 Umbral mods on Umbra then Umbra is same as an Excal Prime that puts 2 Umbral mods but have to forma every other single slot.

If someone puts all 3 Umbral mods on Umbra, they have almost double the HP, armor and power strength than Excal Prime if he puts maxed Vitality, Steel Fiber and Intensify. If he puts 2 of the Umbral mods then the situation is as described earlier.

Given how HP, armor and power strength on excal are no brainers, it is almost impossible to make Umbra worse than Excal Prime.

So it is factually better.

There are not corrupted mods for HP and armor so Umbral Vitality and Umbral Fiber takes top spot as long as 1 other Umbral mod is used and still takes top spot if they are used alone because of the tau resist that neither vitality nor steel fiber has.

There is only 1 corrupted mod for power strength that beats Umbral Intensify and that is Blind Rage but it comes with huge penalty to efficiency. Even Transient Fortitude with its penalty on duration can't beat Umbral Intensify, unless you only use Umbral Intensify alone.

[Umbra is bad design.]

I am glad someone realises it.

Umbra is opening up a new line of reskin of a reskin to basically x3 the income for basically almost the same level of work.

You buy a new frame.

Then, its prime access comes out and its prime is better by just a stat or two. You buy it too.

Then, its umbra access comes out and its umbra is basically same stats as the prime with just some visual changes to an ability but it has sentient defense and it can put mods that give it almost double HP, double Armor and double Power Strength of the prime. You buy it too.

What work did DE do?

For Prime, they did a reskin job and tweak the stats and give it the same code for passive as every other Prime and put some polarities.

For Umbra, they take the Prime, they do a reskin for the frame and 1 ability, remove the code for Prime passive (assuming they don't forget again the next time they wanna be lazy), put in the code for Umbra passive which is basically building on existing specter A.I. and put some Umbra polarities.

Voila! 3 times the income for almost the same work and people are supportive of it.

[(The Sacrifice Spoilers) Dialogue Options]

For chinese, when we talk about yin and yang, it's usually either about feminine and masculine, or spirits and human. Of course, the words yin 阴 and yang 阳 have direct meaning of "dark" and "sun" respectively but it has never fully been about good 好 or bad 坏.

When we say 阴气重, it means yin energy is abundant and that is either used to say the area have many females or the area have a lot of ghosts.

When we say 阳气重, it means yang energy is strong and that is either used to say the area have many males or the area have a lot of people.

So, I am thinking Warframe is just going the feminine and masculine route because it's not a chinese horror game so the other route wouldn't make sense.

As such, the yin options will display feminine traits of passiveness and less aggression or assertiveness while the yang options will display masculine traits of directness and being more aggressive.

[Umbra Ex and Founder Ex Prime custom]

OP, I think it's clear Warframe is P2L.

Founders gear have to be kept weak and ugly so as to not hurt the feelings of some of those who didn't want or couldn't make the leap of faith but somehow is dictating everything now on items they don't even own.

First, it's "No, Excal Prime should not get more than the 25 armor more than regular Excal because it will be P2W." Nevermind that almost all the other Primes have 2 or more stats and not in measly amount of 25.

Then, it's "No, Excal Prime should not get any visual updates because it P2W." Nevermind that all the old Primes need a visual update and they are ok with those but not Excal Prime.

Now, that they get a better looking and stronger Excal Prime for free and it's "No, Excal Prime cannot have his skin used on Umbra and Umbra skin cannot be used on Excal Prime". Nevermind that DE just made Umbra a non-prime and every non-Prime so far can have its helmet placed on the Prime."

Basically, this is a bunch of people who may or may not have paid a single cent dictating how items they did not buy should function and shooting down any requests related to them even when they do the same things for the Primes they own.

I am seriously beyond disgusted by some of you.

[What if we separately builds all 4 powers with mods]

It will be ultra op.

At the same time, assuming they won't allow duplicate mod usage, we may have to get up to 4 identical mods instead of using 1 that applies to all 4.

eg. if ability A needs power strength and ability B needs duration, normally with corrupted mod (eg. transient fortitude) you can't buff one without gimping the other.

However, if they are separate, you gimp neither because you can just put transient fortitude on ability A only but not on ability B. Knowing DE, they will make us have to get 2 of every other mod that happens to be needed for these 2 abilities.

[You know that founder's badge?]

9 minutes ago, AcceI said:

Why are founders pissed about anything Umbra?  There's plenty of other things to be pissed about regarding warframe like that stupid quest not axing the brat.

That's not on topic but to answer your question, personally I am pissed on the power creep.

Whether it had happened for Loki Umbra, Mirage Umbra or whatever Umbra making the Prime essentially a downgrade when Umbra is really a reskin of a reskin (prime) of regular frame, I will still be pissed.

Excal Umbra may have hit a bit closer to home but the power creep is undeniable.

Changed looks.

Changed passive.

Give crazy mods that makes HP, armor and power strength close to double.

Boom. New frame?

More like reskin.

Did a new playstyle emerge from it?

Do people play it differently?

Does it have any noticeable gameplay difference?

Just compare the differences and ask yourself if they could have added all those in in one work week.

3 months? 3 years? No I think 1 work week is enough.

The quest probably took the bulk but not the frame.

Anyway, the topic is on the badges and I stated that I support the badges for people who contribute and when I say that I meant regardless of founders or non-founders.

[You know that founder's badge?]

Sure, why not?

While I am one of those founders pissed off about the Umbral mods, for this topic, I am of the stand that there's nothing wrong with creating new badges for people who contribute to the game.

[COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.]

48 minutes ago, ChaellExE said:

After all that spending and looking back, did you get your worth out of it? I mean with all the updates, changes and all? 

Well, I think the money I spent before POE was worth it mainly because of POE.

I think POE is an awesome addition because it actually changed the game in a huge direction from corridor shooter which frankly got boring for me after some time.

I know there are people who hate it but it introduced open world exploration, fishing, mining, monster hunting and focus 2.0 which frankly is actual content addition because every one of these are a complete different playstyle/mode. The excessive grind and segregation from resource usage from the rest of star chart however is a bit concerning because it makes me feel that DE is starting to become more money focused.

Similarly, the way the latest quest frames (umbra aside) now require tons of rng to build is very concerning.

That said, while people hate them, I am fine with Lunaro, Conclave and Raids too because even those failed, they are still things that introduces actual new gameplay/experiences and could be used to develop other new content.

However, I didn't really care much about all the U.I. or special effects and whatnot. Debatable but to me those are not actual content addition.

So, to me, onslaught is just a reskinned survival which to me is not actual content addition.

Primes, to be frank, are all just reskins of original frames too and not actual content addition either but I do understand that DE needs to make a living somehow and they help double the income by giving income on top of the sales of the normal version. This is why when I buy Prime Accesses, the real focus for me is on the platinum and accessories because the other items can be farmed for or bought from other players.

Similarly, I was also expecting more for Umbra and not so much on just another Excalibur Prime reskin, some new mods and a weapon (which to me is not actual content addition) and even more so, a massive power creep to Primes (founders feel it now but in future when more are released, everyone will feel it). A reskin of a reskin already pisses me off but I thought it would bring equality so I was fine then it turned out that there is a massive power creep going along with it.

In other words, only things that change the gameplay in the sense that we will play differently or experience different things are money well spent for me.

All the reskins and making things look nice, while important, I feel shouldn't constantly be the focus of development.

That's basically my view development direction and why after POE, the only thing I am interested in is Umbra and Venus. However, after this release, the only thing I am interested in is Venus.

If however, Venus is just reskinned POE with no new actual content additions, I think I will regret buying the Zephyr and Mirage Prime Accesses.

I bought the Ember and Loki unvaults for the accessories so I can't really say I regret them for the same reason but extractor prime wasn't as useful as I thought.

[Adding Excalibur Prime helmet and skin to Excalibur Umbra appearance selection.]

Just now, Mover-NeRo said:

Did you bought the EP to be strongest warframe?

No but I did buy a skin and I intend to use it.

What's the point of buying the skin if I can't use it?

[Adding Excalibur Prime helmet and skin to Excalibur Umbra appearance selection.]

3 minutes ago, Mover-NeRo said:

You say that like we are still able to buy EP.

You got what you bought. A gift for founding. And i thank you for that.

But please stop acting like you always need to be on the top. And need constant advantages.

How exactly is having a skin being on top?

Will you pay 50 to 250usd for a skin which you can't use without gimping yourself?

I really don't understand the logic here.

Why are non-founders making themselves a victim because they didn't or couldn't buy a skin?

Will put excal prime skin on umbra make him stronger?

What advantage does putting a skin onto umbra give?

[[spoilers] Multiple Excal Umbra doesn't make sense with lore]

Think of it like Dark Souls.

In your world, you are the sole protagonist.

In my world, I am the sole protagonist.

So, if we meet, I would be the one to have experienced the story from my perspective while you are the one to have experienced the story from your perspective.

However, in my perspective, you are another tenno who happens to have an umbra and the way you acquired him is different, meaning to say from my perspective, your story is different.

At the same time, from your perspective, my story is different.

The best thing is we both can never confirm it because even if our story matches, it could just mean we come from different alternate realities or there really is 2 to 4 Umbras (depending on number of players) in the universe.

[Adding Excalibur Prime helmet and skin to Excalibur Umbra appearance selection.]

I think non-founders need to consider something.

If umbra is better functionally to excal prime, naturally a founder will not use excal prime.

Then, what's the point of using excal prime?

You will say it is to show off.

Ok.

Then, allow the excal prime skin to be applied to Umbra.

You say no.

Then, what exactly is the point of founders buying an excal prime?

If he performs worse and we can't use his look on Umbra then what are we supposed to do with him?

Keep in orbiter and arsenal as decoration?

Just because you don't want to see him in play doesn't mean he doesn't exists.

Personally, I don't care since I hate excal prime's look anyway and I will and never have used his skin, but I really don't see why there is so much hate for letting founders put on a skin which we bought.

[COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.]

32 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The EULA indeed is usually set up in a way that allows companies to do whatever they wamt while leaving as small room as possible for complaints from their customers. feel free to take a read at any ToS/EULA before clicking "accept"

Yes, I am aware of how companies typically do this but what I am trying to bring up is the fact that when things get brought up to court, it is not always as straightforward as "Oh, EULA gives the vendor undisputed power over everything and even if the vendor breaks any consumer laws that's fine".

The truth is every EULA is written in a way that protects the vendor. That's afterall the purpose of a EULA but this alone does not mean illegal actions like hacking into your users' bank account or using their credit card info they themselves input for a purchase or mis-selling an item is ok because of the protection of a document drafted with the sole intention of protecting the vendor from all possible issues.

No EULA gives the vendor a free pass to break other laws even if it involves items that happen to be sold by them or info that passed by them.

[COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.]

1 hour ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I'm curious to why you make this statement since, as pointed before, we have all signed the digital contracts that allow us to play warframe which are the ToS and EULA. Perhaps you might want to read a bit further about digital contracts instead.

You're mixing ethics with law. A company could do the things you said and still go unpunished since those who gave them their money agreed to let them do whatever they want with. BUT,  said company wouldn't last long simply because the word about their bad practices would spread quickly and people willing to give them money would drop to zero.

Companies without ethics will look for any legal void to screw people and leave unpunished, hell, here in my country some companies have declared themselves in banktruptcy to avoid paying their bills and finishing their jobs ehile the owners run away with the money and laugh at those who paid for their services. 

One thing is DE having the option to do something, another entirely different is DE's ethics on the matter telling them "don't do it". Or are you trying to imply that founders are above the ToS and EULA?

I am not saying that the EULA or ToS are not legal documents but I am bringing up the fact that not every clause in them holds in all situations.

If a game developer were to put "You agree to give us the rest of your future income and your soul in their EULA, it doesn't automatically mean they can exercise that right because that infringes on other laws.

In other words, just because there is a EULA, doesn't mean mis-selling will be made ok and legal if it is brought to the courts.

I have said nothing more and nothing less.

I don't even know how you managed to link it to me saying Founders are above the law but I am pretty sure you are implying a EULA lets a vendor break consumer laws.

[COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.]

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

We all have agreed to the ToS in order to play the game, it's an actual contract we sign by clicking "accept" before downloading warframe and to which we keep agreeing as long as we keep playing it. So anyone trying to sue DE would most likely be countered simply by DE's lawyers reading the ToS and saying "the player accepted this"

It's weird that many founders talk about that contract yet refuse to show actual proof of its existence (and even weirder since DE calls said contract "a promise" instead)

A contract isn't always a piece of paper with us printing it out and signing in ink with a witness.

I suggesting reading about digital contracts.

If it is not clear, the moment DE advertised they are selling an exclusive item never to be released again and founders paid money based on this information willingly, both sides have formed a contract.

You can't discount everything just because of the EULA because if that is the case, anyone can just start a new game, sells tons of items for tons of money in the first few days then remove all those items or change them to useless items the next day and face zero legal repuccussions.

It is no different from DE selling you 500 platinum today then the next day change it to 500 credits and tell you "too bad because EULA means I can do whatever I want".

No court of law will ever allow such kind of mis-selling to go unpunished just because of EULA.

[Final step to get Umbra.]

No matter what game you play, if there are stats and progression, using level 1 beginner gear to play content meant for say level 20 or 30 players will mean either you can't proceed further or take a long time to clear it.

You may have godly gear for warframe side but if you put little to none investment in the operator side, then you are still operating at 50% efficiency.

It may mean using lvl 15 gear to play lvl 30 content in other games.

[A silent Founder's vent through yet another perspective]

Inaros Umbra.

Will be literally unstoppable.

[Option to disable Lotus voice]

+1

I would prefer Ordis telling me what to do as Ordis.

[...so you can play Warframe, while you playing Warframe.]

Gameception

[When is the Sacrifice Update coming to consoles?]

It should be a month or the same amount as per any other updates.

The process for them to release it should be identical to any other updates.

[COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.]

1 hour ago, ChaellExE said:

I have invested around 100 euros over the course of the game since the first nerf of those floating compagnons. (They were as powerful as warframe) The dedth cube was the first thing I have ever bought in this game. 

I think that's awesome! It is good to support the developers if you like what they are doing via spending some cash on the game even if it is a F2P game so kudos for that👍👍👍

That said, I do hope you are not trying to undermine my opinions with expenditure (not saying you are) and not to purposely sound rude or to undermine your contribution (which once again, it's good👍) but on top of the 100usd I spent on the founders pack, I have been buying most of the Prime Accesses so far because my job don't afford me too much playtime.

As such, with Prime Accesses and platinum purchases being the primary source of platinum for me, I have personally spent 500 to 800usd on warframe alone. 

I am well aware there will be people spending way way more than that and thus it will be pointless for us to bring up how much we spent because we individually do not account for the expenditure of others.

That's said, it is not hard to believe non-founders as a whole can match or exceed founders as a whole in expenditure as I have mentioned in my earlier post simply because of the size of the groups.