AreWeHuman
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Posts posted by AreWeHuman
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Leveled up axes with mods reducing charge time become the ultimately efficient melee weapon. At level 23 and -120% charge delay it pretty much charges up as quickly as a mid leveled sword, yet dealing tremendous amount of damage (240-260 charge) and hitting multiple enemies at once (I took out 7 infested "troops" at once, my best score so far).
You can't go wrong with the axe especially playing as rhino. The 'iron skin' power become simply the essence of your gameplay.
If you're doing a build devoted to meleeing, the pattern I've seen is that charge attacks lose ground to spamming attacks if you dedicate your frame to melee mods and mod the weapon with crit and melee damage. I don't know if this is true for the axe or not though. But for the few other full melee builds where I saw people devoting their frames to doing more melee damage, the charge ended up not being as good.
The rhino is definately the class to do a pretty hardcore melee build on though.
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I'M ON IT!! Incoming axxernaut ninja.
If you actually do this please get back to us on how it turns out. I'm very interested to know how it will perform.
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I use super jump in loads of rooms, it's useful in more than just the larger ones. There are quite a few ways to skip out stair cases, or negate having to walk around higher railings that you can super jump over to get to hiding enemies much more quickly than it takes for them to pop back up or move into line of site.
It's an amazing skill, very underused.
Uh the only rooms where you can skip staircases are the large rooms with high ceilings. Which are the rarer sort of rooms. Which is where I said it is useful. In any of the rooms where regular super jump hits the ceiling from the low floors, super jump is slow. You lose momentum using it. None of those rooms require that you gain nonlinear elevation and the fastest way to gain elevation accross a fixed linear route is typically to slide->jump->ADS right before the stairs start. It is as fast/faster than sprinting and will carry you up most staircases. and costs no stamina. It's pretty much just the best way to move in any sort of straight line. It is semi useful in the smaller rooms shaped like a cents sign (like this: http://tinyurl.com/centssign) But you can traverse over the center railing without it.
That's why I suggested decreasing it's AOE to just enemies that Excalibur passes through. Seems like that simple change would alleviate all the problems you have with it. As far as it scaling too well, have fun getting stopped dead in your tracks at the first enemy you hit if you try using it on Pluto without any +power damage mods.
When I say it scales too well, I mean in comparison to other skills in the game. This does not mean I think it needs to be nerfed, only that the scaling seems out of line. Point for point I think it is more valueable than every other skill. Do you follow?
And I don't think reducing the aoe of the skill widthwise is the right way to go. You don't need to repeat it constantly. I've given you no reason to think I don't understand your suggestion. I don't think it is a very good one as it really wouldn't do much to reduce the potential of the move, but would infact just make it a little more troublesome to use (when I say a little I mean really a little). I think a target cap is a better idea. Lining people up is not that hard. the width only really shines when you go for enemies who are taking cover from your line of fire. It'd be a nerf to the skill, just not much of one. You could with a little groundwork and precision get the exact same effect out of the skill if its width were narrower by as much as ~40% which I feel would already be quite a lot.
So yeah, I see your suggestion and I saw it the first time you said it. I just didn't feel the need to comment on it because I thought it wasn't great.
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Lol. That's pretty funny. I'd suggest doing that with a different weapon to increase the effectiveness though. (bo or scindo or dual skana with crit stuff could be sweet)
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Yeah stairs have a thing where the game thinks you're airborne sometimes.
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+1 It is our highest priority.
Wow, I must be lucky with my situation connectivity wise.
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My warframe has a unique passive skill that gives me access to these four other active skills, trololololol.
Diversification of the classes is something the devs are going to do and I believe this was regarding more than just differences in active skills.
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The Furax are pretty great. Part of that is that I just really like using them for sure though. It's mostly a chargespamfest and abusing electricity/jumpstrike to lock things down. (also hits through armor) I think Scindo and Bo have high potential as multihit options and I think they are both largely better than the hammer althought I have yet to max any of the above. And dual skana if you are doing a specifically melee build.
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From what I can tell, the Corpus humanoids are headshot-immune, but very squishy in the body. Aim center mass and they go down in 1 shot.
Its an armor pen thing. With armor pen you can headshot corpus workers. (It might also work with penetration, I have not tested it).
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Good Thing:
+150% on CRIT DMG
Bad Thing:
0% CRIT CHANCE
If you spec specfically for it you can really make stuff out of your crits. It's better for melee for the most part though.
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my lvl 25 burstron hits corpus in the head for 180, It seems more powerfull than latron in every field asside from ammo conservation. But with a pool of 500 its hard to run out of ammo with it. Currently the latron feels somewhat underpowered compared to the burstron, accuracy wise they're fairly similar with burstron always landing one hit dead on target and 2 more in a close spread. Meanwhile it deals double the damage latron does in those 3 shots. Rex has a base damage of 60 vs latrons 30 aswell.
I have no illusion that snipetron is (isn't?* damn you english) pretty awesome at high level, it feels like latron could do with a bit more punch though.
lolburstron.
You don't have a maxed latron do you? The latron trumps the burstron pretty easily with correct modding. The burst delay is awful and the spread is pretty derp compared to just pumping enemies heads full of bullets with the lat.
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I roll privates and online groups that I know I am hosting, usually avoid onlines as I dont have a means of ensuring that I host, and so far the problems i've seen with connectivity seem to be related to the hosting. When solo I have very little trouble. When hosting private (I have a great connection) or doing private with my friends who also have good connections hosting I also have very little trouble. And I have had no complaints from my friends when I am the one who started the game either. With random hosts, I seem to hit more roadblocks and groups getting broken up. It'd be cool if you could host open groups or whatever so that could be alievated.
But there are still some strange issues that do occur that seem to be mostly fixable by relogs. which does seem to indicate that there are some connectivity issues that need to be addressed. But it is also beta. They are actually still doing development, so those issues may have to take a backseat for now as the game is still largely playable and the connectivity stuff i'm sure has not become front and center for the development of the game by any means.
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Super Jump is an awesome ability too. :)
Still sucks that it isn't useful for a lot/most of the game though. Only the less commong large rooms have a ceiling worth superjumping under.
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^
Yep, enemies spawning from rooms you just cleared is one thing what needs to go.
As suggested earlier in the thread, there could be these things similiar to those where MOAs come from. But they should be disableable.
This so much. And the MOA things do already "empty." Or I seem to remeber that they do...
On the boss spawning note some of the things that turn up on the other side of doors would have to be adjusted/changed when stealth. Sometimes I walk into a room and there are like 4+ enemies just staring at the door. And some corpus cameras catch you as the door is opening. Although that could be a mod thing/undetected change thing. would be okay logic wise as it stands to reason that no one would want to turn on motion detecting laser doors when you aren't on high alert right? Corpus could also just be "harder" to stealth agianst as well.. Provide an avenue for challenge as well as a means of mixing up what is most effective for each level.
Same thing goes with an "invasion" level. Doesn't make too much sense to stealth into a spaceship to avoid high alert status when they are already under assault and should be anyway. One stealth thing that would make sense for invasion missions would be like the ability to avoid squads of enemies that are looking to go kill the invaiders/the people they are invading, not you. And like rooms with ongoing clashes that you can kind of avoid or sneak around would also be cool. Like maybe provide an alternate path that exposes you to other risks if you don't stealth (take the maintance hatch but there are bursts of fire and coolant going off, oh no! lololol.) or something like that.
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what does RMB means
Right Mouse Button.
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We're being slightly tangential, but we're still discussing that!
Not really. We have been talking about running and gunning on the snipetron. Something I insist that you can't truly do. I don't feel that this is a balance issue with the weapon at all. I think the weapon is rather balanced for what it is. I haven't taken it in to the superlate stuff yet, partially because i just don't have great mods for it and it isn't that close to maxed yet, and I do think it will fall off more later compared to the gorgon and HEK. (and basically every gun actually, mutlifire is just better on weapons that shoot more bullets and multifire is basically the mod to beat).
Speaking of balance, Multi-fire seems OP as a mod as well. I think upping the damage to flesh on fire or giving it a burning effect would be good to increase it's damage on the right enemies and free it up from weapon damage reliant-scaling, flat buff armor pen, make freezes hurt sheilds more and make sheilds more of a thing, maybe make it stop sheild regen for a set amount of time and/or make it slow firing rate/attack spead and remove the movement slow from it and give the slow to electric (it would have to look visually different but i feel like a "shock slow" could work), remove the stunning electric effect (maybe buff electrics damage or something a bit as well), and then make stun better for stunning than electric. Maybe give stunning a proc damage effect. Like not damage you get every time but damage you get when you get the stun effect.
Thoughts thread?
EDIT: Thought of a better change to electric than a regular damage buff. Make the enemies who have the electricity on them shock other nearby enemies. Like just a few metre radius or so.
EDIT: thought of something better than a flat buff to armor pen. Make it actually reduce the armor of the thing you're shooting instead. Make it like a shred rather than a penetrate. plz no corrosive or acid though. It'd make the games mod effects too borderlandsy i think.
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Slash n Dash is Overpowered? try using it on Pluto mission.
and Javelin has a 360 degree arc hitting 1k dmg "Per Target" and hits EVERYTHING within the skill's range...
I don't know how to express to you that at the cost of 100 energy that isn't impressive other than how I already have in this thread. Have you read it?
The only thing that needs done to slash dash is to narrow the swathe it cuts through. This would make it fit Excalibur's theme as a more mobile finesse based melee frame while differentiating it from Rhino's charge, which acts as more of a crowd control ability. The fact that slash dash is one of the few useful first abilities isn't really a compelling reason to nerf it. The other first abilities just need to be brought up to its level. Shuriken has already been mentioned, but Mag's is even more useless, literally the only use I've found for it is pulling the shields away from shield lancers. It can't even pull enemies off ledges if there's a railing in the way, which is the first thing I thought of using it for.
If some of the other abilities scaled as well as slash dash, they would just end up being even more broken. Except mags skills probs. She's not in great shape imo. And I don't think slash dash needs big nerfs or fundamental changes. It is just so worth the energy it costs because it combines what is imo some of the best utility in the game with very energy-efficient damage to rather large areas. The ability simply does everything, at the cost of 25 energy. I like the low energy cost. I like the utility. I don't like that the ability can pretty much do anything. I think the damage may have to get toned down. 1-hitting most/all of the minor enemies is fine. It almost kills the alot of the bigger stuff which I feel is overboard considering the other strengths of the moves. Or, like what I already suggested, give the ability a max target limit (4 hits I feel would be fine. 2 at level 1 and 1 for every point in the skill) Give people a reason to consider using radial javelin over slash dash at least.
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I hipfire with my Braton, and I kill just as quick with my scoped Snipetron.
As I said, feel free to jump in game with me. :)
See my edited post. Also check out that video. If you're comparing your snipetron speed to your hipfire braton killing speed, It is slow compared to the running and gunning that you can do in this game. The reason why your snipetron can "keep up" (it actually still can't tbh) with it is partially because it's a braton.
Anyway, No more offtopic for me in this thread. If you want to keep talking about the run and gun snipetron thing. PM me or make a new thread or something.
Thread is about weapon balance.
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Feel free to jump in a game with me any time, I can assure you I'm just as quick with it as any other gun and I'm happy to prove it!
You might be as fast as you are with any other gun, you just aren't as fast as you could be. When i'm running and gunning in this game, I avoid ADSing. It slows you down always. the way running and gunning works well in this game is if you are as mobile and small as possible to reduce incoming damage. The AI blows at shooting anything not moving directly toward it and most of the dangerous area attacks have large wind up times. The snipetron has the worst ADS of all as it slows you down the most.
Its not a bad gun by any means. I personally like it and like using it.
Pretending it is somehow good or for running and gunning or even somehow
is still absurd. You simply can't deal the same amount of damage to the same enemies in the same course of the level as quickly. That is how you excell at running and gunning. I think we have different working definitions of running and gunning. For me, it is: running around, throwing lots of damage at all enemies nearby, not using cover, and in this case; mostly using ADS for the dive after you slide jump. Running and gunning is NOT taking considerable time to reload every 6-8 AIMED shots that you took. usually from cover at enemies who may have been or probably were mostly behind cover.as quickNow here's the deal; You can have your thing that you feel run and gun means and I can have mine. It can be an opinion, I am totally cool with that. But, before we just got "yeah whatever" and stop derailing this thread, I want to explain why I think my idea of running and gunning makes more sense than yours from a logical perspective. And if you want to continue the discussion from there via pm or new or even existing, more relevant, thread.
The strength of the snipetron is its high damage per hit and accuracy (another less relevant strength is that you get basically all the ammo for it). As a result of these shooting things in their weakspots with the weapon is more effective than it is with any other weapon. And it works pretty well. You do have to spend a lot of time reloading and ADSing though. Actually, as it turns out: every time you want to shoot something, you have to ADS, or you will probably miss. The thing is, in warframe when you ADS, you cannot run. The reason I think you can't run and gun with the snipetron is because it is literally impossible. In order to "gun" you must ADS. When you ADS, you can't run. You don't get to choose here. You move more slowly. You can't even fire directly out of sprint either which you can do with any other gun. And forget about shooting thing as you slide past the corner they were behind. It is extremely difficult to navigate effectively due to how the mechanics of the game and weapon work.
Here is an example of what I view running and gunning as, and the kind of style that it is, I promise you, quite impossible with the snipetron. I would like to note this person navigates the levels as a whole more slowly than I personally do when running and gunning, especially in regards to the more empty periods in the level they are just running through. I use the more efficient movement pattern of: slide->somesault jump->aimdive into roll->sprint->repeat. I think it is the fastest way to just cover ground and you can maintain stamina the entire time. It also navigates over things pretty well.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.c...yer_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
On the video, It's an example of running and gunning. Not the best/fastest/coolest. Just the first one I found. It's also an example of a whole lot of things you won't be able to get done with a snipetron.
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I don't slow down when I take my snipetron.
Cool delusions bro.
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I assume most people in this thread complaining about it being too good haven't played on Pluto much.
Try it out first.
Tell us more on how its nice to have abilities that are stronk in pluto.
Some part of the game being way harder than other parts does not mean skill balance should be thrown out the window for the rest of the game.
Fair point. Building Ash, Ember, and Rhino now.
Do any of the others suit Melee as well as Excalibur?
Rhino can basically become invincible for a pretty decent duration and has an ability that is basically a somewhat harder to use slashdash. So I'd say he's pretty well suited to melee. Ember less so and I have not done much of anything with ash.
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*looks at gun*
Now now, Burston, he wasn't talking about you... Don't cry.
May as well have been. I'd put up the burston for the worst weapon in the game. Its like semi-decent vs the infected early, total garbage later, and never at any point an improvement on the braton. It is one of those too plentiful choices where if you make it, you're actually just choosing to be worse.
Like Lex, you wont put out anything from this weapon at lower rank till you dedicate yourself to it
And then late game it still falls miles behind. Enjoy your threeshot+ headshots that are worth going for on grineer only. Gun does not even carry bustfire mods well. Not to say the LEX doesn't have a place. But you're making it sound like it will really pan out for you later if you "dedicate" yourself to it.
It won't.
The zoom is perfectly fine. I main Snipetron and I've never found a problem hitting closer targets with zoom.
Where did you read that I had a problem? I said it is needlessly large. Which it is. It zooms in further than ever currently needed. I can still hit things right next to me. I, and by "I" here, I mean everyone who wants to hit something, must zoom in first. Which makes it not super great for going really run and gun, like what the person whom I was quoting was talking about. So thanks for the information about the gun I already know and also use which you should be able to infer due to the fact that i know that accuracy of the snipetron is balls without ADSing. I don't think anyone who doesn't use it knows that. Infact, I'm pretty sure i'm the first person on the forum to say anything about it.
In case i didn't make the difference clear enough; I'm going to clarify why what you're saying in no way makes sense to what I said. Zooms needlessly far =/= I have trouble hitting things that are close. There is just no reason for the weapon to zoom in as far as it does. I could hit what are essentially the furthest possible headshots with 3/4 or 1/2 the zoom pretty easily. Considering I basically used to do exactly that with a Lex.
-Insert the needlessly long part of your post where you disagree with me on unimportant details for an excessive word count-
I would totally be all for a Burstron and Latron which don't suck and Akfurises which don't suck and so on. But I don't really think the Gorgon has much of a problem in terms of DPS. Making impossible to use accurately without ADS would probably be a decent nerf (it is a LMG after all) but it should be capable of putting somewhat accurate, sustained high-damage fire on targets if you can set up in a position which isn't too vulnerable.
Give enemies more rockets and explosives to make that risky, and there you go. Balance.
Really guy, Like 4 paragraphs of condescending disagreement only to finally come to the point of actually just agreeing with what I actually said?
What you aren't right about is weapon balance not needing tweaks. And the gorgon doesn't necessarily need a nerf, the other weapons just need to feel more like options and less like second rate.
Fo' reals you argue that it isn't overpowered and admit that comapred to it, other weapons suck. Somethign being overpowered doesn't mean it needs to he hard-nerfed. Other things may need buffs. Weapon choices should feel like choices. And "fairly accurate automaticrifle vs Better fairly accurate automatic rifle" and "Strong as balls bursty shotgun vs. decent shotgun" aren't real choices.
The gorgon is OP because at some point in the game if you don't use it, you just aren't being effective. AGIAN TO MAKE IT CAPS LOCK CLEAR, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE GORGON MUST BE NERFED.
I do feel like the gorgon needs some drawbacks though. It could even get stronger in some ways if it had drawbacks. (this thread has had some pretty decent gorgon adjustment suggestions that could render the gun equally strong tbh). Its just too all-around good right now and that is a big part of what kills end-game weapon diversity.
Sure is knee-jerk in this thread.
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I disagree. I don't feel like leveling up your character should turn you into a super hero.
Wut. How did you derive that i wanted us to be overpowered from what I said at all? Did you quote the wrong person buddy?
You can run and gun with the Snipetron.
You actually can't hit the broad sign of a barn without adsing on the snipetron, which is actually quite the hinderance, considering how needlessly large the zoom is.
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IMO it just scales too well It doesn't start off out of line. It gets there as you drop points in. Nerf the scaling, solve the problem. And super jump isn't useless. I abuse the hell out of that mobility in any room with a ceiling high enough to take advantage. I feel it should conserve speed a bit better when you do it from a sprint though.
An alternative to just nerfing the scaling on the whole would be to put a target limit on the ability. Like start it off with a max of two enemies hit and then increase it with each point. That maxes it at like 5 right? 5 still seems really strong in the abilities current form. The one thing I don't want to see is the energy cost go up. It would kill the utility of the move.
Oh and radial javelin isn't useless because of how good slash dash is. It just isn't that good. For sure isn't worth 2x the energy of radial blind. If it didn't suck vs bosses/heavies it might be more worthwhile, but it does. It's great for killing hordes of enemies that have for some unknown reason found themselves all around your proximity but so are guns. Or radial blind+punch all the guys.
Best melee weapon?
in Warframes
Posted · Edited by AreWeHuman
No, the axes are good at something. The gorgon is good at almost everything.
You can't know this until you've tried it mang (unless you have done some ungodly maths and in that case i want to see your formuals). Without proper speccing its pretty much better to go with charges over regular attacks on every other weapon. I haven't seen anyone try to spec the axe for melee spam yet, but the pattern so far has been; when you try to make it viable, spaming attacks beat out charge attacks. Granted, you still use the charge sometimes, its not like you cant sprint while charging and so it is still worth doing when you aren't actually hitting something.