(XBOX)N7ShadowedSoul
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Posts posted by (XBOX)N7ShadowedSoul
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Ok so I've noticed this has been an issue for a little while & for some reason it's not been working. Also for some reason DE has not fixed this bug. First off let me say I've been a Hydroid main for 5+ years.
While in Undertow, Hydroid has the ability to grab enemies with primary attack button & tentacles will pull them into it. However recently while your melee weapon is currently held, if he goes into Undertow, he can't use the tentacle grab. It still works if the primary or secondary are currently held but not for melee. It also doesn't matter about key binding I've tried it on multiple different buttons.
I know you guys at DE tend to ignore or put off everything regarding to Hydroid, but can you fix this please?
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8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Sir Jan Stark said:
I highly doubt they're going to tell us anything today, it will probably come out tomorrow at some time and they'll just skip any questions.
Yeah I agree. Haven't seen them really take any real responsibility for their screw-ups.
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3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Maxwolf900 said:
It's just mistake in communication between us and DE of it's coming release today that's all, i have no doubt it will come very much sooner then we think, or i could be wrong it'll come when it comes like i said before, so please refrain from making huge Speculations/Guesses or this will end up being a mind fudge for everyone involved, not saying it's a bad thing to speculate but engrossing allover it to much is!!.
We are not getting anywhere fast by debating any further then we need too with this Topic to make this fix possibly go any faster then it needs too, and i can't see making Hydroid Prime's Access and it's Accessories unplayable and inaccessible could possibly make it go any faster to release sooner then needed too in order to get what you want from it, my suggestion is to wait for it and get it then when it's fully functional/playable for us all to buy then repeatedly talk about that could be solved much better by letting come on it's own accord/time given.
It's not going anywhere but in our Prime Access sooner or later, and that's all i have to say about it guys.
Do you know what run on sentences are? If not this is a PRIME example of it. A bunch of random thoughts that do not make any sense whatsoever. Please learn to use correct English next time. Like a lot of other people you are missing the point of this. The point is do not make deadlines/promises/date to your gamers if you can not come through on them. They said August 29 it would be available, well for console its not. End of story whether its DE like usual or maybe MS/Sony it still not being delivered when they said it would. But since DE has rushed this like they do a lot of things it has not been done right no surprise. I would have rather have them wait the usual week to get S#&$ correct then deliver another faulty update/patch/hotfix.
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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)RubySchneeRos3 said:
But Hydroid is effective now, and he was before. He doesn't need more work, most ppl i know who think that are bad w/him.
Yes he's effective been effective if anybody knows that's its me. I'm a Hydroid main & probably have more time spent on Hydroid than you do on most of your frames. What you fail to realize is that's not my point. My point is DE tends to make excuses for not fixing things, doing things right, or not giving things attention that actually need it.
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19 minutes ago, ndantony said:
Give them a break.
They could have held this Hydroid PA for another week, like they had done in the past. We usually didn't immediately get a new PA after the ending of a previous PA. Usually we would have to wait for another week. I love the trailer too but so glad to even get my hand on the PA today. Second, I prefer them to take time to do Ballas Prime trailer correctly and make one that would work well with a full development of the lore later, and not also holding back PA for another week. Finally, things happen... could be internally - staffs on vac, voice actor, main equipment broke down, etc...
The problem is every other frame has received their prime trailer BEFORE the warframe came out. That's how they build hype for prime access which can causes more people to actually buy it. That's just better for business; not releasing it way after once PA has already calmed down. We will think its cool when it does come out, but by then most people will have already farmed the Hydroid/NS/BP & have them. So there's not too much point anymore at that point. But no all they have been doing, is making the excuse that they have all hands on POE. Because of this, things that actually need some attention like the Hydroid REWORK get passed over on. That's why we got the QOL changes not a rework. To be honest that's not being fair to the frame itself & the people that actually enjoy & main Hydroid.
Furthermore they choose to rush things & send Hydroid out a week earlier & look now console isn't working for the Prime Access. So once again console tenno don't get a working product out the door. We have to wait again for a hotfix to fix the hotfix then get a hotfix that fixes those hotfixes. Way to do things properly.
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32 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Where's the trailer???
29 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:*Please note that we are working on a Ballas narrated Hydroid Prime trailer to come at a later date. When the Plains of Eidolon train nears the station we will have more available hands to produce this.
Not trying to be an a hole, but shouldn't a prime trailer come out BEFORE the prime warframe comes out? Or is it you just didn't care enough about Hydroid to give him one like you did all the other frames? Guess that's why we got the quality of life "reworks" instead of better thought out, planned out reworks? Yes the changes were a good adjustment, but not fully the rework Hydroid deserved. Not really fair to us Hydroid mains.
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6 hours ago, (PS4)wts13bb1 said:
What do you think about the nerfs to his range on his 3 and 4? They changed his 3 from 18 meters base to 4 and his ult from 20 meters base 5. I think they should maybe change this back and only allow Hydroid to move with tidal surge while in undertow and allow him to still charge his ult for more tentacles but for significantly less bonus range.
To be honest I know everybody is up in arms about those changes but really they aren't that bad. The undertow is now able to have synergy with all of his abilities & the fact that you can now grab enemies from range & pull them in kinda compensates for the reduction in range. Plus power range should still scale it anyways & also increase the grab range. To be honest again Tentacle Swarm is better now because it gives more options. Just casting it gives you a smaller grouping while charging it gives you the bigger aoe. Plus now you can also have a different size grouping if you cast it in Undertow. So before yes we had a big aoe with Tentacle Swarm, but now we have the ability to choose from 3 different range sizes for it. So more options = better in my book.
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9 hours ago, Vaygrim said:
Honestly the tentacles, in all forms, need to go. They make actually hitting a target being 'thrashed' by the tentacles extremely difficult, especially if we go with your theory that Hydroid was supposed to be a "Melee Caster". I really do NOT want this 'lure tentacle' power firing off every time I charge into melee and get some good hits. Public groups hate my using Tentacle Swarm as it just delays them killing any targets being thrashed, as well.
He needs a totally new passive, and a totally new 'form' of his #4.
Well I understand that the tentacles make hitting a target difficult if you are using targeted primaries/secondary's yes, but if you are using aoe weapons you can still hit them also. But the main point I want to make here is that you can easily hit them with melee while on the tentacle. I do it all the time with my Sancti Magistar(which is my preferred for Hydroid so that Crushing Ruin will proc the passive on every combo). If I'm completely surrounded or in trouble ill cast Tentacle Swarm & while they are flailing around on the tentacles, I just walk up to them & melee them to death. Try it yourself mate it works.
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4 hours ago, Asdryu said:
Though your dedication is great to a post this big and dedicated is not deserved in there.
Need me to remind you what happened to the feedback made exclusively for one skill?What? What are you talking about?
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4 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:
Iono. Constantly reiterating that you were a hydroid main made me not take this as seriously as a probably should have. Came off a bit self important.
Especially since i'm also a hydroid main, and i disagree with a good lot of whats being said here. Then you called your tentacle swarm exalted form idea "unique" when 8/10 rework ideas on literally every frame people want reworked have an exalted form somewhere in them. Sorry, i'm just sensing a lot of self importance here, so i got annoyed. My apologies. I'll try to not be a jerk in the rest of the post.
Tempest barrage is easily hydroids best move in its current state. I'm not seeing this inconsistency that people keep on talking about. Mod for almost any kind of positive range and it will consistently keep enemies permanently knocked down in the entire radius. I'm also of the camp that cc frames should not be damage frames. Forcing it to scale off of power strength when it doesnt need to is counterproductive imo. Esp since power strength doesnt scale anything else in any significant way
The tidal surge change just has no chance in happening, so no need to address that. Non targeted dash skills scale off of duration. Its been like that for years. Honestly, i think half of the fun in building him is finding that sweet spot with duration to make surge easy to control, but tempest barrage have good duration. Right now i'm sitting around 160% duration and it controls well.
On undertow.... hell no the augment shouldnt be built in. I actually hate the curative undertow mod, i'd be mad if they built it in. I dont want my energy being sapped just because i choose to use undertow near a teammate. I also dont think you should be rewarded with cheaper casts just for using a move that already makes you invincible. I mean, 15% wouldnt break anything, but its unnecessary. The new augment idea is pretty good though.
I naturally hate every exalted weapon idea, because even though damage wise they're powerful, they always just result in players running around mindlessly spamming the attack button. I prefer unique mechanics.
The hydroid rework that we got is really good. You're trying to basically rework their rework. New mechanics, an entirely new move. Whats done is done man. For now, you want to keep your suggestions based around what DE has already done, not give them enough work to warrant a whole new rework.
Things like how smooth hydroid transitions from his 2 to his 3, the range or duration on his moves, his energy pool. Suggestions like that are things they'll listen to, not telling them that they essentially did the whole thing wrong
Another Hydroid main
Buddhakingpen
First off, I mentioned being a main twice; once at the beginning, once at the end. Its not about being self important, myself doesn't matter its about letting DE know they are people who actually choose to main Hydroid as a choice. DE already sees Hydroid as the 2nd least played Warframe with not a lot of tenno that actually like him. If they see people that do it might show them cause to do good by those players like they do the rest of the community. So not to be rude but the only self importance coming off is your ego.
Second point, Tempest Barrage is his best move. Yes, it can keep people knocked down in the radius, but it is Inconsistent. The fact that you claim to be a Hydroid main & not notice these inconsistencies on its pattern especially when dealing with different tile sets, when myself & the rest of the community notices it is pretty bad. If you read the paragraph, you will see I suggested no changes to the actual ability, just suggested a preset pattern for the bombs to drop in to provide more consistency. The extra damage scaling is an option, not something I said needs to be done. No core changes here.
Your third point on Tidal Surge. Tidal Surge is easy to control yes, but you cant do much with it. Allowing it greater freedom of control in how far to go does not change the ability at all. Just allows you to choose where to dash, much like Excal's Slash Dash. It would also give much greater & easier use for the Augment Tidal Impunity. Again there is no changes to the core ability, still works the same way just now is targetable.
On your issue with Undertow, you are the only person I've ever seen or heard of that hates that augment. Most people really appreciate it, so you're coming off a bit greedy. Sorry, I'm just sensing a lot of self preservation here, so I got annoyed. My apologies. I'll try to not be a jerk in the rest of the post. You claim again to be a Hydroid main & you call him a CC frame. That is true, but CC is a form of SUPPORT...Being a support includes having some sort of self/team sustain, which Hydroid has none of beside that Augment. To be honest using Primed Flow & Streamline I never have issues with energy & spending a few more points of energy to heal team mates or protect them is never an issue. Especially with how good Zenurik is you can regain that same amount of energy back in a couple seconds. If you are having energy issues, you're modding or playing him wrong. So like I said it just seems you're being greedy with a few points of energy & not wanting to help your team with this ability. This is further proven by the fact that you hate Curative Undertow, the 1st player I've ever seen talk bad about it. Honestly, I think half of the fun in building him is finding that sweet spot, where you can SUPPORT your team in multiple capacities. But once again here in this ability I have suggested no core changes to the ability, just tweaks. There is no new mechanic here, no new ability. Still functions the same way it always has.
On tentacle Swarm, you really don't read the context of the paragraph do you? Just the words? I only mentioned the Exalted style because treating the modding for it like an Exalted ability. Allowing it to scale with melee mods allows it greater efficiency in dealing with multiple types of threats at higher levels & greater synergy with the augment. So since I did not suggest any core changes to how the ability works, just modding scaling how is this a bad idea? Also explain how this results in people being able to spam a Ultimate like the other Exallted abilities? You can only have one swarm active at a time & with the huge energy cost, you would really have to mod for efficiency to be able to even attempt to spam this. Base efficiency is 100 energy, Streamline is like 70. So you would have to use Transient Fortitude near max rank to get this to the point of spamable. Let me repeat yet again I suggested no core ability changes, no new mechanics it still works the same as always just allows for different modding.
"The hydroid rework that we got is really good. You're trying to basically rework their rework. New mechanics, an entirely new move. Whats done is done man. For now, you want to keep your suggestions based around what DE has already done, not give them enough work to warrant a whole new rework. "
So since on none of the abilities I suggested no core changes & they function the same, there is no new mechanics, no new move. So what in the heck where you actually reading? These are suggestions based on what they changed, no new reworks.
"Things like how smooth hydroid transitions from his 2 to his 3, the range or duration on his moves, his energy pool. Suggestions like that are things they'll listen to, not telling them that they essentially did the whole thing wrong"
Never, once in the entire letter did I say DE "did the whole thing wrong". Never did I criticize any of the work they did in fact I complimented most of it. All of my suggestions were basically add ons to the core abilities which I suggested no core changes for. So once again what in the world were you reading?
Furthermore who are you to decide what they will listen to? Nothing I suggested has been a bad option. Multiple people have already from this topic & the actual feedback topic have liked quite a bit of what I said or have reposted it or messaged me saying good things about my ideas/options. Meaning more of the community agrees, with this than just you. So yet again you are made out to seem like the "self important" greedy player. Next time read the context & meaning of the words, not just the words themselves. For now, you want to keep your suggestions based around peoples opinions friendlier in nature, not give them enough to warrant them thinking you coming off as your opinions are better than others.
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Ok so 1st off, let me say that I am actually a Hydroid MAIN...I'm not a tenno that occasionally plays Hydroid or uses him sometimes for Pilfering Swarm. I MAIN him, I LOVE him & I will try to take him on every mission if possible if I think he will work. Secondly I've been playing Hydroid since endurance bars were in the game. Yes I remember at that point he had the highest endurance stat of all Warframes. So with my being a veteran at playing Hydroid. I'm going to give some insight to some CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts.
STATS:
Shields: 345 to 375 - ehh not bad, but with the way damage & status procs work, this boost should have gone to HEALTH instead
Armor: 65 to 200 - VERY good choice make him a bit more survivable. But is it too much to ask for 225? Like Oberon, Excal, Wukong etc.. That would be great if not that's fine.
PASSIVE: Every Melee slam attack has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that lasts for 15 seconds.
Considering the pre mentioned stamina bar, from what I could assume Hydroid was supposed to be a melee caster frame. Hit hard & fast getting in to do damage. Cast Tempest Barrage from a distance, rush in with Tidal Surge melee the crap outta enemies. This is how I played & still play him not an issue. But triggering this on slam attacks is a bit awkward for most people. Most melee stances don't have a good amount of slam attacks in their combos. NOW I am big user of the Sancti Magistar with Hydroid. So I know that Crushing Ruin is very good with slam attacks to be able to proc this quite often. But as I said other melee weapon stances don't have that same efficiency. So the way this passive procs is forcing to play in a very specific way. So finding a more available way to proc this would be of greater benefit to players. Here's a suggestion, how about making it this?
Every melee attack that procs a Critical Hit or Status Effect has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that last for 5 seconds. Max of 5 at a time.
So that way all melee weapons can now cause this to happen. Also with a shorter duration of 5 seconds instead of 15, this will be a more quick burst disrupt that is not to overpowered or lasts too long. Furthermore with this having a limit of 5 out at once, it will not again be too powerful or cause any performance issues. Now with all 5 out, if there is another proc that triggers this again, the oldest spawned tentacle will be replaced with a new one. Also to make this more effective allow it to scale with POWER STRENGTH ONLY. That way it rewards melee players, for being high risk going in close with Hydroid.
Tempest Barrage:
The RNG of this ability has ALWAYS been my biggest gripe & frustration with Hydroid. Now I remember when you guys had Power Range effect the cluster size of this ability. So using Narrow Minded made this a wonderful CC ability because you could concentrate CC & damage really well. But I see how & know how that had complications with Tentacle Swarm so you guys changed it, that's fine understandable. What it got changed to however is highly frustrating. Now it has a set range of 10 meters, where the power range affects the explosion radius. Fine, but the complete randomness of where these bombs are dropping make it HIGHLY ineffective. So to fix this, have the bombs drop in a designated pattern to where the base bomb radius will hit the entire INSIDE area of the circle more accurately. In example you have a 10 meter circle, make the bombs drop at the 4 cardinal points in a circle of say like 7 meters INSIDE that 10 meter circle. Let the radius of each bombs explosion coupled with Power Range take care of the rest with filling in that 10 meter range & then with more range exceeding it. This way it is a CONSISTENT hitting ability in the same pattern EVERYTIME. Also it still adheres to your 4 bombs drop every second form. On top of this, to allow it a slightly higher effieciency to be able to damage more effectively, have POWER STRENGTH scale how many bombs are dropped per second. At 100% power strength, the base 4 drops are fine. At 150% power strength, add 2 more bombs per second for a total of 6. At 200% power strength, add 4 bombs essentially doubling the original amount. Also have them drop in the same cardinal points mentioned above. These changes would significantly increase the effectiveness & efficiency of Tempest Barrage with out having to do any core changes as to how the ability works.
TIDAL SURGE:
The changes I would suggest are very minor quality of life changes for this. First the speed of how fast he travels is a bit too fast to do much with it. So with that said take off the Power Duration scaling & make it a flat base speed at all ranks. Secondly, allow your aiming reticle to determine where you go & how FAR you go with this. So with that said allow POWER RANGE to not only affect striking distance but the total distance that can be allowed to travel. So for example say you have a range of I don't know 50 meters, allow your aiming reticle to give you the ability to choose WHERE in that allowed 50 meters where to wave dash to. What if you just need to cross through a laser door or like electrocuted water? It would be more efficient to put your aiming reticle just right past those hazards, hit the ability & that's where you go instead of quickly charging a set full 50 meters completely going way past it. Also a combo window counter would be nice a bit like Atlas's Landslide. What I mean is when you cast Tidal Surge & you cast it again within a certain window, the consecutive casts give a slight reduction to the casting cost. He is already water so why charge a lot more energy for him to continue as water? The changes you guys made with being able to go into Undertow from Tidal Surge is perfectly fine.
UNDERTOW:
The dreaded puddle move lol. Overall I am fine with the changes you guys have made to this ability. Good job on this. A lot of people complain, moan & groan about these changes on how it needs to do more damage, move faster etc....It is fine, they want more damage but you are pretty much completely IMMUNE to damage. You cant have too much with this because then it could be completely overpowered. Maybe just a slight buff to scaling damage would be fine. Now I do agree it should move just a wee bit faster, not super fast but just slightly faster. The ability to grab people is nice as well. The ONE thing I would like to see changed is for you guys to incorporate the Augment mod Curative Undertow into the base ability. Water has always been know as the healing element, allow Hydroid by default to be able to help his team mates as well. With this you could really secure Hydroid as a good support frame for teams. When someone is in danger or down, Hydroid goes over drops into Undertow starts healing that person while they are doing their thing. Or he can cover a team mate who is reviving someone keeping them healed. On both of these situations now Hydroid can also grab priority targets into Undertow to cover his team mates like heavy gunners or bombards that can potentially cause trouble. With this you could change the augment mod to allow Undertow to status proc. Every certain amount of seconds it can proc like an impact proc or something in case a player wanted a different style of damage options. These changes are minor but would go a LONG way to helping Hydroid fit into a team composition. As a last note, while Hydroid is in Undertow, allow him a slightly higher efficiency or cost reduction to casting abilities while in the water. In this move he is in his natural elemental plane, so he should not have to spend more energy to use what is around him or what's inside of him. Doesn't have to be a big reduction, maybe just like another 15% or so.
TENTACLE SWARM:
I think the changes you made to this a good as well. A good step in the right direction. The changes I am suggesting are also minor changes that will just improve the use of this ability. Continue to polish the RNG of this ability. Have the tentacles actively seek out targets better & when done with their current target actually move & seek out a new target. Animation issue, you added a kraken head but it really doesn't do anything? Ever thought of having one tentacle at a time randomly feed the kraken its target? While the others are flinging around, have one tentacle do a little bit extra damage by feeding the enemy to the Kraken? That would be amazing! As far as scaling towards higher levels go, the Kraken falls off very quickly. I have a unique idea...Treat Tentacle Swarm as you do an Exalted ability. Exalted Blade, Primal Fury & Hysteria are all melee weapons right? So Hydroid summons a Kraken, the head appears & the tentacles attack enemies right? Well its the kraken attacking enemies & the tentacles are it's ARMS/LEGS. So in essence the Kraken is punching, slapping, kicking & slamming enemies, that is melee combat for the Kraken! So with this said, allow the damage to scale off of POWER STRENGTH & the melee mods Hydroid has equipped on his melee weapon! The kraken right now in the game causes chaos yes, but in mythology the Kraken was also capable of insane destruction. Let us emulate that in the game too! There is a reason for the name the "Terror in the Deep". By allowing this scaling, it will also give Hydroid more versatility in being able to deal with multiple threats in multiple factions & be able to survive & contribute at higher levels. This change of damage type will also allow him to better secure bonuses for his Augment mod Pilfering Swarm by doing better damage.
DE, these are my constructive thoughts on how to improve Hydroid without you guys having to change the core of what Hydroid is. I really hope as one of the few true Hydroid mains out there, you guys actually read this & see how I am offering positive feedback with no bashing, insulting or being greedy in any way. I would just like some help from you on how to build upon my favorite Warframe in the game. Please take these ideas into consideration, Hydroid really deserves the attention.
A Hydroid main,
N7ShadowedSoul
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Ok so 1st off, let me say that I am actually a Hydroid MAIN...I'm not a tenno that occasionally plays Hydroid or uses him sometimes for Pilfering Swarm. I MAIN him, I LOVE him & I will try to take him on every mission if possible if I think he will work. Secondly I've been playing Hydroid since endurance bars were in the game. Yes I remember at that point he had the highest endurance stat of all Warframes. So with my being a veteran at playing Hydroid. I'm going to give some insight to some CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts.
STATS:
Shields: 345 to 375 - ehh not bad, but with the way damage & status procs work, this boost should have gone to HEALTH instead
Armor: 65 to 200 - VERY good choice make him a bit more survivable. But is it too much to ask for 225? Like Oberon, Excal, Wukong etc.. That would be great if not that's fine.
PASSIVE: Every Melee slam attack has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that lasts for 15 seconds.
Considering the pre mentioned stamina bar, from what I could assume Hydroid was supposed to be a melee caster frame. Hit hard & fast getting in to do damage. Cast Tempest Barrage from a distance, rush in with Tidal Surge melee the crap outta enemies. This is how I played & still play him not an issue. But triggering this on slam attacks is a bit awkward for most people. Most melee stances don't have a good amount of slam attacks in their combos. NOW I am big user of the Sancti Magistar with Hydroid. So I know that Crushing Ruin is very good with slam attacks to be able to proc this quite often. But as I said other melee weapon stances don't have that same efficiency. So the way this passive procs is forcing to play in a very specific way. So finding a more available way to proc this would be of greater benefit to players. Here's a suggestion, how about making it this?
Every melee attack that procs a Critical Hit or Status Effect has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that last for 5 seconds. Max of 5 at a time.
So that way all melee weapons can now cause this to happen. Also with a shorter duration of 5 seconds instead of 15, this will be a more quick burst disrupt that is not to overpowered or lasts too long. Furthermore with this having a limit of 5 out at once, it will not again be too powerful or cause any performance issues. Now with all 5 out, if there is another proc that triggers this again, the oldest spawned tentacle will be replaced with a new one. Also to make this more effective allow it to scale with POWER STRENGTH ONLY. That way it rewards melee players, for being high risk going in close with Hydroid.
Tempest Barrage:
The RNG of this ability has ALWAYS been my biggest gripe & frustration with Hydroid. Now I remember when you guys had Power Range effect the cluster size of this ability. So using Narrow Minded made this a wonderful CC ability because you could concentrate CC & damage really well. But I see how & know how that had complications with Tentacle Swarm so you guys changed it, that's fine understandable. What it got changed to however is highly frustrating. Now it has a set range of 10 meters, where the power range affects the explosion radius. Fine, but the complete randomness of where these bombs are dropping make it HIGHLY ineffective. So to fix this, have the bombs drop in a designated pattern to where the base bomb radius will hit the entire INSIDE area of the circle more accurately. In example you have a 10 meter circle, make the bombs drop at the 4 cardinal points in a circle of say like 7 meters INSIDE that 10 meter circle. Let the radius of each bombs explosion coupled with Power Range take care of the rest with filling in that 10 meter range & then with more range exceeding it. This way it is a CONSISTENT hitting ability in the same pattern EVERYTIME. Also it still adheres to your 4 bombs drop every second form. On top of this, to allow it a slightly higher effieciency to be able to damage more effectively, have POWER STRENGTH scale how many bombs are dropped per second. At 100% power strength, the base 4 drops are fine. At 150% power strength, add 2 more bombs per second for a total of 6. At 200% power strength, add 4 bombs essentially doubling the original amount. Also have them drop in the same cardinal points mentioned above. These changes would significantly increase the effectiveness & efficiency of Tempest Barrage with out having to do any core changes as to how the ability works.
TIDAL SURGE:
The changes I would suggest are very minor quality of life changes for this. First the speed of how fast he travels is a bit too fast to do much with it. So with that said take off the Power Duration scaling & make it a flat base speed at all ranks. Secondly, allow your aiming reticle to determine where you go & how FAR you go with this. So with that said allow POWER RANGE to not only affect striking distance but the total distance that can be allowed to travel. So for example say you have a range of I don't know 50 meters, allow your aiming reticle to give you the ability to choose WHERE in that allowed 50 meters where to wave dash to. What if you just need to cross through a laser door or like electrocuted water? It would be more efficient to put your aiming reticle just right past those hazards, hit the ability & that's where you go instead of quickly charging a set full 50 meters completely going way past it. Also a combo window counter would be nice a bit like Atlas's Landslide. What I mean is when you cast Tidal Surge & you cast it again within a certain window, the consecutive casts give a slight reduction to the casting cost. He is already water so why charge a lot more energy for him to continue as water? The changes you guys made with being able to go into Undertow from Tidal Surge is perfectly fine.
UNDERTOW:
The dreaded puddle move lol. Overall I am fine with the changes you guys have made to this ability. Good job on this. A lot of people complain, moan & groan about these changes on how it needs to do more damage, move faster etc....It is fine, they want more damage but you are pretty much completely IMMUNE to damage. You cant have too much with this because then it could be completely overpowered. Maybe just a slight buff to scaling damage would be fine. Now I do agree it should move just a wee bit faster, not super fast but just slightly faster. The ability to grab people is nice as well. The ONE thing I would like to see changed is for you guys to incorporate the Augment mod Curative Undertow into the base ability. Water has always been know as the healing element, allow Hydroid by default to be able to help his team mates as well. With this you could really secure Hydroid as a good support frame for teams. When someone is in danger or down, Hydroid goes over drops into Undertow starts healing that person while they are doing their thing. Or he can cover a team mate who is reviving someone keeping them healed. On both of these situations now Hydroid can also grab priority targets into Undertow to cover his team mates like heavy gunners or bombards that can potentially cause trouble. With this you could change the augment mod to allow Undertow to status proc. Every certain amount of seconds it can proc like an impact proc or something in case a player wanted a different style of damage options. These changes are minor but would go a LONG way to helping Hydroid fit into a team composition. As a last note, while Hydroid is in Undertow, allow him a slightly higher efficiency or cost reduction to casting abilities while in the water. In this move he is in his natural elemental plane, so he should not have to spend more energy to use what is around him or what's inside of him. Doesn't have to be a big reduction, maybe just like another 15% or so.
TENTACLE SWARM:
I think the changes you made to this a good as well. A good step in the right direction. The changes I am suggesting are also minor changes that will just improve the use of this ability. Continue to polish the RNG of this ability. Have the tentacles actively seek out targets better & when done with their current target actually move & seek out a new target. Animation issue, you added a kraken head but it really doesn't do anything? Ever thought of having one tentacle at a time randomly feed the kraken its target? While the others are flinging around, have one tentacle do a little bit extra damage by feeding the enemy to the Kraken? That would be amazing! As far as scaling towards higher levels go, the Kraken falls off very quickly. I have a unique idea...Treat Tentacle Swarm as you do an Exalted ability. Exalted Blade, Primal Fury & Hysteria are all melee weapons right? So Hydroid summons a Kraken, the head appears & the tentacles attack enemies right? Well its the kraken attacking enemies & the tentacles are it's ARMS/LEGS. So in essence the Kraken is punching, slapping, kicking & slamming enemies, that is melee combat for the Kraken! So with this said, allow the damage to scale off of POWER STRENGTH & the melee mods Hydroid has equipped on his melee weapon! The kraken right now in the game causes chaos yes, but in mythology the Kraken was also capable of insane destruction. Let us emulate that in the game too! There is a reason for the name the "Terror in the Deep". By allowing this scaling, it will also give Hydroid more versatility in being able to deal with multiple threats in multiple factions & be able to survive & contribute at higher levels. This change of damage type will also allow him to better secure bonuses for his Augment mod Pilfering Swarm by doing better damage.
DE, these are my constructive thoughts on how to improve Hydroid without you guys having to change the core of what Hydroid is. I really hope as one of the few true Hydroid mains out there, you guys actually read this & see how I am offering positive feedback with no bashing, insulting or being greedy in any way. I would just like some help from you on how to build upon my favorite Warframe in the game. Please take these ideas into consideration, Hydroid really deserves the attention.
A Hydroid main,
N7ShadowedSoul
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Ok so 1st off, let me say that I am actually a Hydroid MAIN...I'm not a tenno that occasionally plays Hydroid or uses him sometimes for Pilfering Swarm. I MAIN him, I LOVE him & I will try to take him on every mission if possible if I think he will work. Secondly I've been playing Hydroid since endurance bars were in the game. Yes I remember at that point he had the highest endurance stat of all Warframes. So with my being a veteran at playing Hydroid. I'm going to give some insight to some CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts.
STATS:
Shields: 345 to 375 - ehh not bad, but with the way damage & status procs work, this boost should have gone to HEALTH instead
Armor: 65 to 200 - VERY good choice make him a bit more survivable. But is it too much to ask for 225? Like Oberon, Excal, Wukong etc.. That would be great if not that's fine.
PASSIVE: Every Melee slam attack has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that lasts for 15 seconds.
Considering the pre mentioned stamina bar, from what I could assume Hydroid was supposed to be a melee caster frame. Hit hard & fast getting in to do damage. Cast Tempest Barrage from a distance, rush in with Tidal Surge melee the crap outta enemies. This is how I played & still play him not an issue. But triggering this on slam attacks is a bit awkward for most people. Most melee stances don't have a good amount of slam attacks in their combos. NOW I am big user of the Sancti Magistar with Hydroid. So I know that Crushing Ruin is very good with slam attacks to be able to proc this quite often. But as I said other melee weapon stances don't have that same efficiency. So the way this passive procs is forcing to play in a very specific way. So finding a more available way to proc this would be of greater benefit to players. Here's a suggestion, how about making it this?
Every melee attack that procs a Critical Hit or Status Effect has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that last for 5 seconds. Max of 5 at a time.
So that way all melee weapons can now cause this to happen. Also with a shorter duration of 5 seconds instead of 15, this will be a more quick burst disrupt that is not to overpowered or lasts too long. Furthermore with this having a limit of 5 out at once, it will not again be too powerful or cause any performance issues. Now with all 5 out, if there is another proc that triggers this again, the oldest spawned tentacle will be replaced with a new one. Also to make this more effective allow it to scale with POWER STRENGTH ONLY. That way it rewards melee players, for being high risk going in close with Hydroid.
Tempest Barrage:
The RNG of this ability has ALWAYS been my biggest gripe & frustration with Hydroid. Now I remember when you guys had Power Range effect the cluster size of this ability. So using Narrow Minded made this a wonderful CC ability because you could concentrate CC & damage really well. But I see how & know how that had complications with Tentacle Swarm so you guys changed it, that's fine understandable. What it got changed to however is highly frustrating. Now it has a set range of 10 meters, where the power range affects the explosion radius. Fine, but the complete randomness of where these bombs are dropping make it HIGHLY ineffective. So to fix this, have the bombs drop in a designated pattern to where the base bomb radius will hit the entire INSIDE area of the circle more accurately. In example you have a 10 meter circle, make the bombs drop at the 4 cardinal points in a circle of say like 7 meters INSIDE that 10 meter circle. Let the radius of each bombs explosion coupled with Power Range take care of the rest with filling in that 10 meter range & then with more range exceeding it. This way it is a CONSISTENT hitting ability in the same pattern EVERYTIME. Also it still adheres to your 4 bombs drop every second form. On top of this, to allow it a slightly higher effieciency to be able to damage more effectively, have POWER STRENGTH scale how many bombs are dropped per second. At 100% power strength, the base 4 drops are fine. At 150% power strength, add 2 more bombs per second for a total of 6. At 200% power strength, add 4 bombs essentially doubling the original amount. Also have them drop in the same cardinal points mentioned above. These changes would significantly increase the effectiveness & efficiency of Tempest Barrage with out having to do any core changes as to how the ability works.
TIDAL SURGE:
The changes I would suggest are very minor quality of life changes for this. First the speed of how fast he travels is a bit too fast to do much with it. So with that said take off the Power Duration scaling & make it a flat base speed at all ranks. Secondly, allow your aiming reticle to determine where you go & how FAR you go with this. So with that said allow POWER RANGE to not only affect striking distance but the total distance that can be allowed to travel. So for example say you have a range of I don't know 50 meters, allow your aiming reticle to give you the ability to choose WHERE in that allowed 50 meters where to wave dash to. What if you just need to cross through a laser door or like electrocuted water? It would be more efficient to put your aiming reticle just right past those hazards, hit the ability & that's where you go instead of quickly charging a set full 50 meters completely going way past it. Also a combo window counter would be nice a bit like Atlas's Landslide. What I mean is when you cast Tidal Surge & you cast it again within a certain window, the consecutive casts give a slight reduction to the casting cost. He is already water so why charge a lot more energy for him to continue as water? The changes you guys made with being able to go into Undertow from Tidal Surge is perfectly fine.
UNDERTOW:
The dreaded puddle move lol. Overall I am fine with the changes you guys have made to this ability. Good job on this. A lot of people complain, moan & groan about these changes on how it needs to do more damage, move faster etc....It is fine, they want more damage but you are pretty much completely IMMUNE to damage. You cant have too much with this because then it could be completely overpowered. Maybe just a slight buff to scaling damage would be fine. Now I do agree it should move just a wee bit faster, not super fast but just slightly faster. The ability to grab people is nice as well. The ONE thing I would like to see changed is for you guys to incorporate the Augment mod Curative Undertow into the base ability. Water has always been know as the healing element, allow Hydroid by default to be able to help his team mates as well. With this you could really secure Hydroid as a good support frame for teams. When someone is in danger or down, Hydroid goes over drops into Undertow starts healing that person while they are doing their thing. Or he can cover a team mate who is reviving someone keeping them healed. On both of these situations now Hydroid can also grab priority targets into Undertow to cover his team mates like heavy gunners or bombards that can potentially cause trouble. With this you could change the augment mod to allow Undertow to status proc. Every certain amount of seconds it can proc like an impact proc or something in case a player wanted a different style of damage options. These changes are minor but would go a LONG way to helping Hydroid fit into a team composition. As a last note, while Hydroid is in Undertow, allow him a slightly higher efficiency or cost reduction to casting abilities while in the water. In this move he is in his natural elemental plane, so he should not have to spend more energy to use what is around him or what's inside of him. Doesn't have to be a big reduction, maybe just like another 15% or so.
TENTACLE SWARM:
I think the changes you made to this a good as well. A good step in the right direction. The changes I am suggesting are also minor changes that will just improve the use of this ability. Continue to polish the RNG of this ability. Have the tentacles actively seek out targets better & when done with their current target actually move & seek out a new target. Animation issue, you added a kraken head but it really doesn't do anything? Ever thought of having one tentacle at a time randomly feed the kraken its target? While the others are flinging around, have one tentacle do a little bit extra damage by feeding the enemy to the Kraken? That would be amazing! As far as scaling towards higher levels go, the Kraken falls off very quickly. I have a unique idea...Treat Tentacle Swarm as you do an Exalted ability. Exalted Blade, Primal Fury & Hysteria are all melee weapons right? So Hydroid summons a Kraken, the head appears & the tentacles attack enemies right? Well its the kraken attacking enemies & the tentacles are it's ARMS/LEGS. So in essence the Kraken is punching, slapping, kicking & slamming enemies, that is melee combat for the Kraken! So with this said, allow the damage to scale off of POWER STRENGTH & the melee mods Hydroid has equipped on his melee weapon! The kraken right now in the game causes chaos yes, but in mythology the Kraken was also capable of insane destruction. Let us emulate that in the game too! There is a reason for the name the "Terror in the Deep". By allowing this scaling, it will also give Hydroid more versatility in being able to deal with multiple threats in multiple factions & be able to survive & contribute at higher levels. This change of damage type will also allow him to better secure bonuses for his Augment mod Pilfering Swarm by doing better damage.
DE, these are my constructive thoughts on how to improve Hydroid without you guys having to change the core of what Hydroid is. I really hope as one of the few true Hydroid mains out there, you guys actually read this & see how I am offering positive feedback with no bashing, insulting or being greedy in any way. I would just like some help from you on how to build upon my favorite Warframe in the game. Please take these ideas into consideration, Hydroid really deserves the attention.
A Hydroid main,
N7ShadowedSoul
Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework
in Developer Workshops
Posted
Ok DE I really hope you're seeing the feedback from actual Hydroid players & will be making adjustments accordingly.
First off let me say I am not a casual Hydroid player. I am a DEVOUT Hydroid main & have loyally played him since nearly Warframe's release on Xbox back in 2015. He was the very first frame I went & got. I have played him in every bit of content this game has had in 8 years. DE I have been playing him since stamina & stamina stats were a thing. Back in that day he had the highest stamina stat of the available frames. I remember a dev stream where Scott was talking about the thought/theme of Hydroid was being a melee fighter that used his abilities to quickly lock down, get in & out. A hit & run pirate frame. This is how I have played him for 8 years. While every other player has chosen the new damage heavy, nuke a map OP frames...not me I have loved my Hydroid. He may not be perfect, he may not be the best but he is the Warframe I enjoy the most. He is the frame I continue to choose to play Warframe for. DE I have more time on Hydroid/ Hydroid Prime than pretty much most of the frames combined. I was there when you guys made the changes/rework to him in 2017. Most of the changes were good, some of them changed his mechanics/modding for the worse. However I'm not one to get on the forums & post really EVER. However this rework, I definitely felt I needed to say something. While most of these changes seem interesting, good or straight improvements there are some major concerns.
Tempest Barrage:
Back before the changes/rework of Hydroid in 2017 the ability range stat had significant impact on the effectiveness of this ability. Range would affect the circular area of effect of where the barrage would land. A preferred mod setup would actually lower the range & up the ability strength so you could cluster all the barrage into a focused area thereby increasing the consistency of the damage. Combining this with Corrosive Barrage (pre corrosive status changes) this enabled a very effective armor strip while giving decently solid damage. Well, your changes in 2017 destroyed this functionality & setup. The range got changed to affect the explosion radius of the water bombs themself with them landing randomly in the pre set radius. You effectively killed both the decent damage output & armor strip capability of Tempest Barrage. The changes to corrosive status procs further made this ability augment worse. On top of that instead of just staggering or knocking down enemies it hit, the changes to impact damage now made them ragdoll out of the ability. The main question here is with these new changes, how is the ability range stat going to function now? Hopefully its more towards the pre 2017 rework.
Tidal Surge:
I can't think of any issue with your rework here for this ability itself. Better qol, better responsiveness, CC. On paper it seems good. Hopefully it feels good in game.
Undertow:
Here begins my biggest gripe point. Good God this is a HORRIBLE choice to just completely remove this from the game. So pre 2017 rework the puddle had alot larger aoe. While not effective in terms of damage, I understand the changes to its base function then. It was not fun. However, what the rework gave us was the ability to cast our other abilities from Undertow. Also, a niche function of being able to grab enemies with tentacle to pull them in. That was a significantly positive change. However, the other changes you made to it then were a combination of not understanding the frame & unnecessary nerfs. When the 2017 rework came out, enemies submerged in Undertow were dealt TRUE DAMAGE. While the damage was meh it did ramp up. Furthermore, when you combined this with Corroding Barrage this allowed the damage to be significantly improved & ramped up so much quicker. You could within 2-5 seconds kill very beefy targets in your Undertow. While not even remotely the strongest thing in the game, it was unique. Surge into a group of enemies, drop undertow, grab a few targets you missed with tentacles, hit them with Corroding Barrage & watch them die. It was more engaging. More importantly, it was FUN FOR ACTUAL HYDROID PLAYERS. Then for whatever reason, you guys decided this was too strong & changed the damage type to IMPACT, arguably the worst damage type in the game. You again just like Tempest/Corroding Barrage effectively killed the function of this ability. In a game where we had Saryn, Volt, Equinox nuking entire rooms in seconds, you decided that THIS/ UNDERTOW was on that level where it needed a nerf into nonexistence? Give me a break. Here's your reasoning.
Your nerfs in 2017 made this happen. You caused what you are saying. Hydroid players never wanted Undertow to be completely stationary or low on the damage. You made those choices. A 1 meter a second move speed was ridiculous, who decided that was a good idea at the time? The absorbing enemies without instantly killing them? Thats a direct effect from your nerfs! Hiding enemies that the team is trying to kill? No actual Hydroid main wants that either, we want to be able to kill the enemies just as fast to help our team. After these changes Hydroid's Undertow was not about damage or offense but PURE UTILITY. There are several VITAL things actual Hydroid mains use Undertow for.
1) MELEE
Let's go back to Scotts comments from 2014/2015. The theme of Hydroid was being a melee fighter that used his abilities to quickly lock down, get in & out. A hit & run pirate frame. What Undertow gave Hydroid mains was openings & positioning for melee enhancement. Once you were in the midst of enemies, Undertow puts enemies in a vulnerable state. Once you arose out of Undertow, enemies were in a finish able state. The next melee attack on them did finisher damage & lots of it. You didn't have to sit STATIONARY. You could drop it then immediately come back up to get the crazy melee damage. The other thing was with the 2017 rework, Hydroid could now use jump to exit Undertow. What this allowed was for you to come out of Undertow & be in the air. Why do this? To get slam or heavy slam attacks with weapons which did what DE? Oh yeah proc his old passive of giving a tentacle(as crappy as that was). However on weapons that gave bonuses to this, it was really fun to do (again for Hydroid mains) you remember things like the Arca Titron, Ohma, Exodia Hunt, Tenet Exec, Lifted status effect?
2) Survivability
What Undertow gave Hydroid was survivability in another form. Where other frames have things like Iron Skin, Warding Halo, Mesmer Skins, invulnerability windows etc etc. Hydroid had his puddle. Orbital Strikes from Kela de Thaym? Puddle. Big Moa shockwaves? Puddle. Jackal energy waves? Puddle. Steel Path & got blasted by a Bombard? Puddle. Got scorpion yanked by an enemy? Puddle. Need 1 second of breathing room? Puddle. Need to reposition? Puddle then Tidal Surge. Need to heal just a bit? Puddle with Curative Undertow. Need to create an opening for something? Puddle then choose an ability. I have taken Hydroid into many, many hours of Steel Path Kurva Survival. You know what has saved me countless times? UNDERTOW for its sheer utility.
3) Synergy
Undertow enabled flexibility with his other abilties. Tempest Barrage allows enemies ins puddle to be status affected. Tidal Surge could be used for shorter distances & to puddle gather enemies. Tentacle Swarm got 200% percent damage when cast from Undertow. Are these synergies going to be given to the base ability somehow?
KEEP PUDDLE IN THE GAME SOMEHOW
What Undertow gave was OPTIONS DE....PLAYER CHOICE...VERSATILITY. The complete removal of this ability shows complete lack of understanding of how actual Hydroid mains are using Undertow & shows you don't understand how vital & frame defining it is for Hydroid. This is the ability that is the core identity for Hydroid's uniqueness. I really hope you listen to the feed back here on it because there are 2 really good ideas to still incorporate Undertow in some form.
1) Incorporate it somehow like you did Limbo's riftwalk. Via a dodge, crouch or something, Puddle utility/survivability needs to remain in the game somehow.
2) Apply it to his Tidal Surge ability. Make it a hold function. Tap to Surge, Hold to puddle. Again this is a vital core identity/ mechanic for Hydroid mains. The Puddle utility/survivability needs to remain in the game.
Tentacle Swarm:
Well to be honest I'm a bit conflicted here. This ability can go a couple different ways. It could be a more power/damage focused ability that just obliterates things or crowd control. If it remains as a CC ability, then the utility needs to be much better. The random spawn locations of the tentacles does need to be fixed though. With that said, while the Kraken has always been decent at Crowd Control, it's always made it harder for the team to kill enemies grabbed. These changes alleviate that issue by holding them straight. Pablo also said that if enemies walk into the area they will be grabbed by the Kraken. While the changes seem much better, it also makes the ability less fun? less lively? Less power fantasy? It's basically a reskin of Khora's Strangledome now....here's my thought process.
Hydroid is an ocean frame. The ocean is the most powerful force on Earth. Hydroid calls the Kraken...in Greek/Nordic mythology this was one of the most powerful creatures in existence. The Kraken was a force of nature that even some of the gods feared. In folklore the Kraken was just as powerful, feared & respected by sailors & maritime/ ocean cultures. Should the ability not reflect that lore/ reputation? Also, maybe the augment could be enhanced/buffed or even changed? Just a thought.
Final Thoughts
All in all, the rework seems interesting & I'm eager to test it out in game. I want to see where this puts my favorite frame in terms of functionality, modding & fun factor. However what I am adamant about is that some sort of Puddle functionality remains available to Hydroid. Without it, this kills a playstyle I have enjoyed for many years & what keeps me coming back to Warframe. Without it, I'm not sure if the same enjoyment will be there for me, I will have to see when the update come out. I'm all for having the Plunder ability to try out, but Undertow needs to be a riftwalk or applied to Tidal Surge. All this feedback from Hydroid mains over the years & it seems DE has chosen to ignore us Hydroids mains as usual. As I said I usually never speak up on forums but this is my "that 1 guy who complained about Conclave to Steve changes" This is my hill & I'll stay fighting on it. If not it might be time to move on.
If anybody read all of this, kudos to you. To any remaining true Hydroid mains, I salute you brothers keep up the good fight.
Much love to every Tenno out there & happy hunting!