[Launcher optimize cache suggestion]

Thanks for adding the option to skip optimizing the download cache on the launcher in the recent update. Having to wait for it to do its thing after waiting for the download when you just want to space ninja was annoying. I think it would be great if you could add third option to instead ask again when you exit Warframe. I'm usually not using my pc for anything that optimizing would interfere with after I finish playing, but I also tend to forget that I should restart the launcher and let it do its thing.

[Crash To Desktop, No Bug Report Option]

I was just farming on Earth - tycho survival with some clanmates and was at about 30 minutes when we all crashed to the desktop losing all the loot including like 12 - 15 neurodes (I was spamming desecrate the whole time with a resource drop booster). Which is a pain but none of us even got the option to submit a crash report.

 

If I attached a debugger to generate a .dmp in the case of a crash and posted it would that be of any use for bughunting? Would attaching a debugger run me afoul of anti-cheating measures or steam or the like?

[Loot Manipulation Powers Are Bad Design, Lead To Degenerate Gameplay]

I think you hardly understand the motives for people to be complaining about Nekros and how his skill Desecrate is seen right now. You only watch it as a "Degenerative skill" for YOUR style of gameplay. Basically you dont care about what others think (like more people have stated in their comments).

 

If you see Nekros's Desecrate skill as a skill that lets you kill a target even when its dead (since it is what the skill does), it "kills" the target again to expect the target to drop the loot it would have dropped already with the SAME drop value it has before. It does nothing different than to what other "Nuke" Warframe can do (since those Warframes can obliterate horde of enemies easier with the use of skills). So why are you not saying anything about those "Nuke" Warframes who "Degenerate" the gameplay into making the game a constant use of those Warframes to kill faster and get drops faster than those Warframes who dont have such powers?

 

Thinking any skill is "Degenerative" to gameplay depends on the perspective of each people and how they want to see and want to play the game...

 

You talk bad about Desecrate for Nekros and Pilfering Swarm Augment for Hydroid (yes you have to sacrifice a mod slot for it) but you dont even care to check the whole set of skills. Nekros would receive a needed buff for his 1st and 2nd skill, but you only care for Desecrate. Hydroid NEEDS to receive a buff or a skill change for his 3rd skill, but you only care for the use of an Augment...

 

And on the topic of Boosters, i pointed at them because they serve for the same purpose as these "Degenerative" skills, they are in the game to help (yes, help, nothing or no one forces you to use them) to get an increased chance to get items in the game.

 

Do some Math (or at least objectively thinking) and think about the answer to these simple questions:

Do Nekros alone can kill and loot an entire horde of enemies?

In the time the tentacles of Hydroid´s skill Tentacle Swarm finishes to kill enemies, how many enemies another "Nuke" frame would have been already killed?

 

You are only pointing at what you dont like...

 

And like i said in my late comment, i agree on an increase of higher drop chances. To revamp the loot table has you said. What i dont agree is that you make "facts" that such skill, call it Desecrate of Tentacle Swarm, for having a chance to get more drops (note the word CHANCE) hurts YOUR playstyle, and by consequence it hurts EVERYONE gaming experience.

 

Edit: Changed some salty (censored) words i used. Aside from that thanks for reading.

The problem with loot manipulation powers is not if I like them or not but what their presence does to the ecosystem of the game as a whole. The developers must balance the game around something. Either drops are balanced (for whatever DE decide that means) around players not using loot powers in which case those who do get drastically more loot than the developers intended or drops are balanced around using loot powers and anyone who doesn't will get much less loot and have a much more excruciating grind to get that loot.

 

For the record I think Nekros should get an overhaul to make all his skills fun and useful. The idea of getting extra health, energy, ammo and life support from slain enemies can stay. It fits his theme of twisting the dead after all and can be useful although I don't think it would be enough to be an entire power on its own. But mod, blueprint, and resource drops need to go because of what loot powers do to the game overall. I also think the loot balance overall needs an overhaul but so long as loot powers exist such an overhaul will fall short of what should happen. The post from the Diablo 3 dev explains this well.

 

You ask to compare having another nuker frame in place of nekros and to think of desecrate as letting you kill a dead enemy again. There are a few problems with this. Its most glaring in the case of sentients: spawns are rare and they are hard to kill. But desecrate 'kills' them as easilly as any other mob and doesn't need another to actually spawn. Again this isn't just about Nekros but about loot powers in general and they all do that.

 

Against regular enemies such as farming for defiled snapdragon a desecrate nekros works as part of a team. As I said something like speed Nova, EV Trinity, and WoF Ember. Those three farming are limited by the spawn rate of enemies more than the time it takes to kill one. There is realistically no other frame that can come anywhere near Nekros in terms of adding to the drops that team can get simply because if you already kill everything increadibly fast adding 1,000 or even 10,000 dps has a very small marginal gain.

 

(The one possible exception would be Hydroid with pifering swarm if you could find a level layout where many enemies would be grabbed by tentacles. Its worth pointing out that pilfering swarm no longer requires the tentacle or even hydroid to get the killing blow but simply that the mob die while grabbed. So having Ember immolate mobs while they are stuck works just fine. But you have to contend with finding a level where tentacles will work and then it only works for mobs that get grabbed, desecrate is simply a better option.)

[Loot Manipulation Powers Are Bad Design, Lead To Degenerate Gameplay]

God this thread has so many terrible posts but its such a huge problem from a design perspective I can't help but post again.

Pretty much you want to remove (the OP and the people supporting it) a "free drop booster" that some people have in the game... Why not asking to remove Resorce Drop Boosters at all from the game? Why not asking to remove also the Credit Drop Booster from the game?

 

Asking for an increased drop from drop tables i find it fine honestly (if you desire even more chance for drops then paying for boosters is still viable). Making a rework not only for the skills that add an increased chance (not doubled like most of the people say, since every kill you get for an example can get you 0.5% of the item dropped, that value its not doubled, its not magically converted into 1% drop chance... it still counts as a 0.5% for the use of said looting skills) but a rework for the kit of skills these warframes do have would be beneficial... not only for a skill functionality you dislike of find "unfair".

Boosters are a very different kettle of fish from loot powers. Using a booster doesn't change how you play. With or without a booster the more enemies you kill the more loot you get. If you think boosters are a good idea or not doesn't really belong in this thread. Its a fine thing to discuss in the broader context of a loot stystem revamp but this thread is specifically about loot manipulation powers.

 

Again its not about a skill being fair or if we like it or not but about what the mechanics of the skill does to the game as a whole. Right now if you want to farm something you are far far better off using the loot manipulation builds than not.

i cant believe the amount of salt in this post, claiming he said what he didn't even remotely mention.

you blame abilities but forgetting that everyone can just buy that resource drop amount booster/ resource drop chance booster.

they serve the same purpose but you only see "useless abilities that poison the game".

you cant even trade resources - it doesn't affect trading in any way since you cant trade items that are built with this resources.

if you know where to farm you can farm tons of resources even without nekros and other boosters.

if you are unable to at least look at the wiki in section "gathering tips: go <insert planet name> <mission name> <mission type>, people reporting getting x resources per <insert time frame> on <insert mission name>" that's solely your own problem

 

you have a point but in a grand scheme of things to change what you want you need to rework the gameplay. there is literally dozen of other reasons for warframe's gameplay to be reworked from scratch besides droptables that this issue is just negligible/not a priority

 

First loot powers don't only effect resources they work for mods and dropped blueprints. I know several people who grouped and vigorously farmed for Defiled Snapdragon when it and the Mios came out using Nekros that did nothing but cast desecrate while the other players provided a steady supply of corpses. They made quite a lot of platinum but I don't think anyone could call standing in one place and pressing desecrate for an entire mission fun or engaging gameplay. It was on Draco with a speed nova to get enemies to nekros fast, ev trinity to keep nova going, and ember to kill them. The other players did more than press 3 continuously but that's exactly what nekros did and they all got the drops equivelent to killing 90% more enemies than they did.

 

And I personally ran a Nekros on a farming session when the Boar blueprint was added back as a drop from troopers on Uranus. The other people I went with did the killing and I just followed and hit 3 and I personally watched the bp drop from desecrating. That's not tradeable for plat but its not a resource. Of course Tel also drops from desecrate so that rather makes going on an alert with single tel as a reward seem like a waste of time.

 

That's what we mean by bad design and degenerate gameplay.

 

And just yesterday I heard someone looking to get Vengeful Revenant using Ivara for prowl, pilfering swarm hydroid, and desecrate nekros against sentients. Since they are rare and powerful its a far easier maximize drop chances than to find and kill faster. What frame and power setup could possibly let you find and kill sentients 3.9 times faster than those frames could kill 1?

[Loot Manipulation Powers Are Bad Design, Lead To Degenerate Gameplay]

People have been mentioning the Diablo-esque loot nature of Warframe in defense of loot manipulation abilities. Lets see what's up with Diablo and loot manipulation:

It’s been a while, I’ve been off in Treasure Goblin land trying to get Reaper of Souls into shape. I wanted to stop by to give everyone some insight into what we are doing with Magic Find. For those of you who have heard me talk on the topic before you are probably already aware that MF is something we haven’t been thrilled with for quite a while. The idea of MF is great “GET ALL THE THINGS!” the reality of it however is incredibly problematic and leads to more negative effects than positive ones. Getting the reward rate of the game to a place we are happy with is a difficult tuning process and when we try to add MF into the equation is creates a bit of a dilemma, one that was already pointed out in the thread, how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF. Ultimately the answer to that question is “You can’t” as such we have been trying to phase MF out of the game as much as possible.

In addition to changing exactly how MF interacts with finding items we also have dramatically reduced it’s existence throughout the game. Having strong characters already equates into finding more items, both by virtue of killing things faster and also by virtue of playing in higher difficulties, which still do have rewards associated with them. Because of all of this we decided to not only remove MF as an affix from gear but also change exactly how MF interacts with different item qualities. MF will apply 100% of its benefit to Blue items, 30% to Yellow items, and 10% to Legendary and Set items. This means someone with 300% MF will end up finding roughly 30% more Legendary and Set items than someone with 0%. The design intent is to make things like Topaz gems in helmets or the Nagel Ring an option without them actually being mandatory.

I hope this helps clear the air and as the expansion moves further and further into its development cycle I’ll start climbing out of this portal more frequently to answer questions.

...

On the topic of people thinking MF is an awesome way to get loot! Well here’s a different way to look at it, getting better gear is going to get you items faster. I would rather you get gear faster because you are more powerful and therefore murdering hordes of strong enemies faster, not because there is a stat that secretly is the most important thing in the game but doesn’t feel good because you have to sacrifice real power for it.

This was part of their Loot 2.0 overhaul which was one of the important changes that made Diablo 3 into a really great game instead of a good but hamstrung one. Desecrate isn't exactly the same as magic find but its effects on gameplay and blance are very similar. Anyone trying to get dropped items without using desecrate and pilfering swarm are at as much of a disadvantage as someone with 0% magic find compared to someone with 400% magic find.

[(U18) Extractors Do Not Show How Damaged They Are]

Came to report this issue. It is annoying.

[Cannot Play Sniper Only Sortie Without Owning A Sniper Rifle]

You cannot unequip all your weapons and the game will not let you start today's sniper rifle only sortie with any non-sniper rifle weapon equipped. I don't own any sniper rifles because sniper rifles are worthless in a game where you are expected to kill between dozens and hundreds of enemies in a mission. Therefore I cannot do today's sortie.

[[Spoiler] Carrier Blocks Madurai Ability]

when firing the beam, carrier will keep items floating directly in front of the beam, blocking it. Please fix. 

Can confirm. Carrier's vacuum will contiinue to suck items toward you while using Madurai's beam but since you are using your special you can't pick up items. They float right in front of / on top of you and block the Madurai beam. If you continuosly move forward the items will lag slightly behind you and I was able to hit enemies with the beam but that's not doable in all situations.