HanShotFirst
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Posts posted by HanShotFirst
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On 2018-05-15 at 3:42 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:
3. Trinity players that build for this BS of a tactic neglect their role as the support Warframe of the team.
I'm totally sympathetic to points 1 & 2, but 3? Nah, sorry. You're not entitled to *anyone* performing a "role" regardless of how you think their Warframe should be played.
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I'll still take a Resonating Quake Banshee over the average Limbo player. At least the mission will be over in short order and I can move on with my life.
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14 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Fun is a little subjective wouldn't you say?
"Hey guys, it's been a whole five minutes already and CoolD2108 doesn't have a full combo meter and 450x multiplier. Let's reset and kick him from the team before he drags the rest of us down."
But no, you're right... Hysteria is 'toxic'.
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4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Might as well not dragg your squad down with results that equal afk.
You do realize some people play this game for fun, right? Remember fun?
4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Or are you really convinced that 250 basedamage with no scaling or status whatsoever are gonna cut it against high level armored enemys where invulnerability makes sense?
I've never, ever encountered an enemy I couldn't kill with Hysteria, even bosses like Kril with his own invulnerability mechanic. And I've been playing this game since closed beta. (And yes, before you ask, I've been to every node on the map.)
4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:This isn't even about rivens. This is about basic melee mods that won't work due to its reset mechanic.
Oh really? So you start every match with a full combo counter then? I mean anything short of that would drag your squad down with results that equal afk, right?
4 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:I see what the problem is with this discussion: You folks are pitting Valkyr against difficulties that aren't officially recognized by the developers, much less supported by the game itself.
This guy gets it.
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18 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Scaling damage appropiate to your progression in games sure is. What's the invulnerability worth once you'll become unable to kill.
I'd really like to know what you're "unable to kill" without sustained throughput of that magnitude, but doesn't pose enough of a threat to merit the usefulness of invulnerability even once in a blue moon.
18 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Might as well not play at all and don't take spots.
"Hey guys, might as well not play at all if you don't have god roll Rivens, multi-forma'd gear, and a full set of arcanes."
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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
I'm aware that i'm not comparing apples to apples here but straight up invulnerability is unnecessary...
Yet 5000% melee damage, a 450x multiplier, and a non-resetting combo meter with five million consecutive hits is?
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53 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Building for it can't be the issue appearently. Plus there's multiple stances that make a movement penalty irrelevant.
I mean you can't jump, can't slide, not even sure if you can crouch, but sure... I guess the right stances might help overcome *some* of that. At least it doesn't reset the combo counter, so you've got that going for you.
54 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Nyx is also somewhat of an odd example...
It's an example of absolute invincibility. Apples to apples.
54 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:What about rhino who has no penalty?0 Nezha? Zephyr? Nekros? Oberon? IA Frost?Any invisibility user? Don't all of them basicky share what valkyr has with no drawback whatsoever?
Honestly, I'm not familiar with all of those frames (Nezha & Zephyr especially). Are we equating armor buffs and/or damage resistance to invincibility now? Out of all of them, Rhino is the only one to stand out as a genuine analog, though the duration is nothing to write home about.
And invisibility? As great as it is for obvious reasons (golly I miss the old version of Naramon), it isn't invincibility by any stretch. Existing DoTs and AoEs retain their lethality.
If we're just gonna go with the kinda, sorta, basically the same thing route, then we may as well say your +5000% melee combo dmg is roughly equivalent to Hysteria's base dmg.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Is there anything keeping nyx from using actuall melee?...
You mean other than the self-root and locked animation that can only be semi-compensated for via the Assimilate augment mod? Nah, I guess?
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
There is a norm for melee and Hysteria falls short, no matter what your point is.
Because you want it to be an analog to Wukong's Primal Fury.
Personally, I see it as more akin to Nyx's Absorb... with inherent mobility, and lifesteal.
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31 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
No they are not. Not much of a melee player are you?
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying any of that is unobtainable (though I'm a little dubious on the "pretty fast" five million).
I'm saying you're comparing this to the high end of the curve--content I suspect the average player will never see. Pretty much *all* Warframe abilities fall short by that measure, or they get nerfed.
All I'm saying is you might want to rein in those expectations.
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23 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
You mean like normal melee does?
Yes, "normal" melee. The numbers you're citing aren't at all exceptional, or the product of excessive theory crafting. Nope.
Which apparently still isn't good enough? You want more on top of that--just not invincibility or status immunity--with the zero-sum cost of only having to equip a Rage mod. Seems pretty reasonable.
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7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
250 basedamage doesn't really compare to blood rush, maiming strike, scaling status pushed by stance and combo multipliers... and the speed buff, that one makes you reach those 5 million pretty fast in longer games.
...each crit rank is a final multiplier after everything else. Remember how the telos boltace was nerfed not too long ago? Reason was that it could cheese combo buildup, rather then the low damage nuke attached to it.
Condition overload is literally able to reach a 450x multiplier. Nah really, look.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Condition_Overload
Melee is pretty darn overpowered by default. It's intendet to be. Valkyr may be able to do...goodisch damage compared to some guns but for a melee weapon ability, it is weak af simply because it's designed to reset your counter.
How is it irrelevant that you loose a allmost infinite, scaling damage potential using a ability that drains waaay too much energy for simply pseudo invulnerability? Because what? Because the devs thought it was o.p. for a frame to survive high damage at the time?
Right, because none of the other warframes' exalted modes reset the combo counter. Just Valkyr's.
So yeah, anything short of a Hysteria that pumps out +5000% melee damage, doesn't reset your counter, and can be maintained indefinitely with nothing more than a Rage mod is simply unacceptable. Oh and status immunity and invincibility are worthless. Got it.
Good luck with those *very* reasonable expectations and keep living the dream.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
You forgot the appoximate 5000% melee damage trough a not reseting combo counter
Slash status off that base
Riven mods
You lost me. How are you deriving +5000% melee damage via the combo counter? It caps at an 8x multiplier, after a minimum of nearly eight million consecutive hits. Furthermore, how is it relevant to this discussion (much less slash status or Riven mods)?
1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:The need to recast Warcry every 15 seconds for around 19 energy, what lowers your hysteria timer to something closer to a minute and a half. And the only thing you gain? Status immunity and pseudo invulnerability.
Okay. Swap Intensify for Eternal War. Or just don't bother casting Warcry. The only things you lose are minor CC and speed/armor buffs.
1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Btw never bothered with armor calculators ... is the difference between 1650 armor and 5000 armor only 5%?
If the wiki's calculator is to be trusted, the difference between 1650 armor and 5000 armor is just under 10% damage reduction (84.62% v 94.34%).
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You know what the difference is between these two builds?
Config A
Armor: 82% Damage Reduction (86% w/Warcry)
Melee Speed: +65% w/Warcry
Can channel Hysteria for over 2:30 minutesConfig C
Armor: 87% Damage Reduction (90% w/Warcry)
Melee Speed: +125% w/Warcry
Can channel Hysteria for 20 seconds~5% damage reduction
60% melee speed
7.5x durationSo yeah, for a marginal difference in armor, effectively negligible difference in attack speed (virtually unnoticeable on anything besides very slow weapons), you go from an ability you can barely sustain for 20 seconds to one you can channel for more than two and a half minutes.
Respectfully, maybe you should try a slightly more balanced build before writing this ability off as "rock bottom"?
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38 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Doesn't Valkyrs current hysteria essencially share WoF's issues? Was its drain not the model ember was nerfed with?
Nah. Ember's WoF went from moderately effective against entry level content to moderately effective against entry level content... with a stupidly high cost.
Your gripes against Hysteria notwithstanding, it still provides above average damage output, life steal, status immunity and invincibility. And its costs can be more than countered with a balanced build rather than one that fixates exclusively on strength/armor.
You just can't channel it indefinitely, which despite your fondness for Wukong is clearly NOT what DE wants.
39 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Whatever they do can't be worse then what it currently is since she's reached rock bottom a long time ago and now serves as model to *nerf* other frames. I see where you're comming from, you fear that they'd screw her up but seriously dude, how could it be worse then what it is?
Easy. See Resonating Quake.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
A build that ignores efficiency now would ignore efficiency then an lead to the same results it does now. Logically speaking you would have shorter windows to do damage and would have to revert to zero more often, otherwise you'd have higher risk of dying. Thing is, building for it would actually reward you if there was more to it but high drain. It doesn't now. In no way does it reward you.
Apologies if there's a language barrier, but this is just word salad to me.
1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Ember is a horrible example btw. Ask Ember fans how she works at all these days.
For better or worse, both Ember and Banshee are recent examples of DE's reevaluation of channeling abilities. If I were you, I'd be *very* careful asking them to do the same for Valkyr, much less extol the virtues of Wukong.
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15 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Way to ignore the answer to your question to run your agenda.
LOL, what am I ignoring?
Outline a scenario where your Valkyr maximized armor/strength/Rage build would be at risk of ANYTHING under your proposed changes. Risk of what?? Please provide DETAILS.
I'll repeat myself:
9 hours ago, HanShotFirst said:It sounds to me like you're expecting to sustain the ability indefinitely via energy conversion, and/or mitigate any true risk via lifesteal and maximized armor.
What am I missing?
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8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Damage for risk.
Risk of... what?
You're arguing Rage should allow you to channel abilities indefinitely, while lifesteal and armor should mitigate incoming damage.
In short, you're lamenting a build focused on armor and strength (at the expense of EVERYTHING else) should have ZERO drawbacks.
What's the "risk" here? What exactly are you proposing you should be "at risk" from?
8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:You can literally keep any channeled ability on indefinitly...
Ask Ember fans how that's working out with World on Fire. Or Resonating Quake Banshee players.
8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:Why should Valkyr
Why should ANY warframe have to manage energy?
Why should mods like Continuity or Streamline even exist?
Heck, by that logic, why even have abilities? Why not simply make Warcry and Hysteria passives that are always on?
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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
This could be acchieved by linking to cost to the damage counter together with a damage buff. Somewhat of a high risk, high reward kinda thing.
The health could stay locked at 1 until you balance the damage out completely. At zero, you'd gain the least but have the most efficiency and you would be able to regenerate energy. At max, you'd do the biggest damage, maybe gain effects on tresholds but you would have the risk of running out of energy and thus ultimately dying.
You're not wrong, high cost fits her theme. That you're forced to toggle cause a point and effectless high drain forces you to just doesn't.
Okay, one more time for clarification...
What's the tradeoff? What's the "risk"?
You've complained the cost for Hysteria is too high, it's duration too short, and that you want more control over your mortality.
You're proposing that you should be able to dedicate your warframe's build to armor and strength (save one or two slots for Rage and/or Eternal War), and somehow still significantly benefit from Hysteria?
What's the downside here again?
It sounds to me like you're expecting to sustain the ability indefinitely via energy conversion, and/or mitigate any true risk via lifesteal and maximized armor.
What am I missing?
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10 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Lets see here...
In short, you just don't want to have to slot mods that benefit ability duration or efficiency.
You'd rather rely solely on Rage and/or Hunter Adrenaline for energy management, maintain high survivability via armor and lifesteal, and focus on maximizing ability strength.
Somehow Hysteria should contribute to this playstyle, without costs you can't trivialize, if not completely mitigate.
Am I wrong?
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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
If it was re designed, i could tollerate building for it. But for something people consider a panic button to set a prefix that you have to build for it is pure and utter bs.
You can have playstyles dictate builds, Main abilities, kits. Literally anythings makes sense building for except for something that is supposed to be used at last resort. I mean really, does it make sense to that something you are NOT supposed to use forces you to abandon a weapon AND you frames build for it? Only so you get...what exactly? A little life steal you could easily manage with a single mod? A reduction with a chance for invulnerability if, and only if you flew from battle? Like you couldn't flee from battle in the first place...
Hysteria does have quite the requirements and cost for how little it does, whether you see it as mountain or not.
So equipping a decent melee weapon and adding mods like Streamline, Flow and Intensify to your Valkyr build is a huge sacrifice? Really?
None of her other abilities, much less her playstyle in general would benefit from that?
You're not exaggerating even a little bit?
Insane damage, inherent life steal, status immunity, invincibility, and lasts upwards of two and a half minutes or longer. Yeah, how little it does.
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On 4/27/2018 at 4:54 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hysteria
The wiki entry. Sorry btw, missed the second reduction. It is closer to 92% since:
Valkyr emits an aura with a radius of 5 meters around her while Hysteria is active, and 30% of the total damage she ignores is stored. If any enemies within this aura have line-of-sight of Valkyr when Hysteria is deactivated, Valkyr will be dealt 25% of all stored damage as
Impact damage.
So much rather then beein invulnerable you're getting a damage reduction that stores 30% of the damage and then unleashes 25% on you if you are not ...essencially outside of battle when it ends.
This ^^^^^^ stored damage is ignored by your healing. Any other frame with a 90% reduction would be able to heal it perfectly fine in higher levels, Valkyr isn't. On her low health pool, you might as well use a sentinel with medi ray. It doesn't make much of a differerence whether or not it heals you.
I like its design as a exalted ability, i can deal with it having high cost but that the cost beein justified by a reduction other frames do better for less energy, that it disqualifies as the panic button it is supposed to be by requiring you to specificly build for it, that is bad design.
Honestly, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill re: stored damage. It can easily be negated by simply breaking line of sight. Short of that, if your mortality is genuinely at risk on deactivation... I rather suspect you would have died even sooner without the invincibility.
I also think it's kinda unreasonable that you'd expect better results from a re-design without having to specifically build for it. It sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too.
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On 4/27/2018 at 12:54 AM, EinheriarJudith said:
you misunderstood. im talking about a replacement for the invincibility. show me where i said i was having trouble. infact her exalted weapons damage is crazy. but when you call a frame a berserker damage goes up defense goes down but i guess you didnt catch that.....
Oh. So you're not having trouble. Hysteria's exalted weapons damage is crazy. But you'd like it to be "severly boosted"?
Yeah, how could I possibly get the impression you were having difficulty killing things?
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21 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:
We have Scrambus, Ancient Disruptors, Alad V, Isolator Bursa, and Stalker which can Counter Hysteria's Invincibility so there's no reason to remove Valkyr's Invincibility when he have unfun enemies like them. Was you thinking of the Juggernaut Behemoth?
It may have been a Tactical Alert? It was definitely infested, but I can't recall if it was a juggernaut or phorid style mob.
I know it was around the same time as The War Within, as certain new "abilities" were suggested as the means to get past its defenses and damage it.
Nyx Lost Her Uniqueness
in Warframes
Posted
Lost her uniqueness? Maybe as worst CC frame. Revenant is horribad. Have you even played this warframe?